Bus Lane Fine Help - Haringey

[TEKNOPUG]

Can anyone help please - I drove through a bus lane on Seven Sisters Road in Haringey on Monday 25th April - foolishly thinking that Sunday rules apply. I now know that this is not the case. I have yet to receive a PCN, however, the post to my home address is very intermittent as it is a new build and the road itself is also new and there is no sign indicating it's name. I'm more than happy to pay the fine but I can't find anyway of doing it without receiving a PCN. I don't want bailiffs turning up on my doorstep in 6 months time demanding £500!

I've looked on Haringey's website and there is no information about bus lane fines, only parking fines. When I have called their phone number I just get put into an automated queue for parking tickets, which asks for my PCN number.

Can anyone advise as to how I find out whether a PCN has been issued to me and how I go about paying it?

[marshalla]

http://www.pistonheads.com/gassing/rules.htm

"When using this website you agree not to:
15. Cross-post across the forums "

[oldsoak]

Right, now the duplicate post has been removed...any chance of anyone answering the OP query?
I'll have a stab....
Not dwelling in London nor any of its boroughs, I'm unsure as to it's many rules and regs regarding traffic..had I been, I would at least know (on regular journeys) what pitfalls were in place to relieve me of my cash and actively avoid them.
One thing is certain I certainly wouldn't be actively looking for a ticket I had yet to receive for an alleged offence. I would wait to receive it, and, if I thought I had a case, appeal against it to PATAS....WITHIN the 28 days allowed after receiving it.
I would also be using Google to find out how many of Haringey's bus lane tickets are issued when they shouldn't have been and hope mine comes into one of the many categories that exist for dismissal of such tickets.

[TEKNOPUG]

From previous experience I don't think that PCNs are sent registered post but I doubt that claiming that I never received it will be much of a defence. I'd rather pay 60 quid now than god knows how much in a few months time.

[oldsoak]

My point was (which obviously eluded you) You don't know yet whether you have been collared for the alleged infringement. Until that PCN lands on your doormat you will never know...will you?
Oh and BTW parking fines/bus lane tickets are one and the same on Haringey's website.

[TEKNOPUG]

oldsoak said:

My point was (which obviously eluded you) You don't know yet whether you have been collared for the alleged infringement. Until that PCN lands on your doormat you will never know...will you?
Oh and BTW parking fines/bus lane tickets are one and the same on Haringey's website.

I realise that but as PCN's are not sent via registered mail, there is no way of knowing that I have been issued one if I don't receive it. Does the 14 days that I have to pay it start from the date that the Council can prove that I received the PCN - do I wait until I receive a court order for non payment of fine or a visit from the bailiffs?

[oldsoak]

Forget it.....pretend I didn't respond at all to your query...Just ring the council up tell them you drove in a bus lane and where would they like you to send the £60.
Whilst you're at it you could also put your hands up to any other parking/moving traffic offence you may have committed but not received notice of in the past.....
Jeebus it's like swimming in treacle here lately...

[Laurel Green]

Have you tried their Parking Office number 020 8489 1000? Am sure I have used this number to actually speak to someone.

Incidentally, am just back from their office for changing a RPP. Paid the Pay and Display parking charge in a nearby street and, would have been back in good time had the person dealing with my permit not put the wrong year on the new permit, thus another ten minutes taken to re-complete the permit. Returned to car to find a parking warden slapping a fixed penalty notice on the car. Five minutes overdue.

[TEKNOPUG]

oldsoak said:

Forget it.....pretend I didn't respond at all to your query...Just ring the council up tell them you drove in a bus lane and where would they like you to send the £60.
Whilst you're at it you could also put your hands up to any other parking/moving traffic offence you may have committed but not received notice of in the past.....
Jeebus it's like swimming in treacle here lately...

So you are advising that if you know that you have committed a traffic violation and you know that the postal delivery to your address is very poor, with many items being mis-delivered or not arriving at all, that it's best to just ignore any pending fines and plead total innocence to any following court orders or bailiff visits?

So everyone should just throw any PCN's or other fine notices in the bin and just pretend that they never received them?

I'm not quite sure why you have posted in that case. Something constructive along the lines of "this is the following number you should call to clarify" or "PCN's are not enforceable unless the council can prove that you have received them" would have been more appropriate.

Still more useful than Marshalla though I guess

[TEKNOPUG]

Laurel Green said:

Have you tried their Parking Office number 020 8489 1000? Am sure I have used this number to actually speak to someone.

Incidentally, am just back from their office for changing a RPP. Paid the Pay and Display parking charge in a nearby street and, would have been back in good time had the person dealing with my permit not put the wrong year on the new permit, thus another ten minutes taken to re-complete the permit. Returned to car to find a parking warden slapping a fixed penalty notice on the car. Five minutes overdue.

Is that the parking appeals number? I'll try that at lunch. Thanks

[flemke]

TEKNOPUG said:

Can anyone help please - I drove through a bus lane on Seven Sisters Road in Haringey on Monday 25th April - foolishly thinking that Sunday rules apply. I now know that this is not the case. I have yet to receive a PCN, however, the post to my home address is very intermittent as it is a new build and the road itself is also new and there is no sign indicating it's name. I'm more than happy to pay the fine but I can't find anyway of doing it without receiving a PCN. I don't want bailiffs turning up on my doorstep in 6 months time demanding £500!

I've looked on Haringey's website and there is no information about bus lane fines, only parking fines. When I have called their phone number I just get put into an automated queue for parking tickets, which asks for my PCN number.

Can anyone advise as to how I find out whether a PCN has been issued to me and how I go about paying it?

Perhaps a stupid question, but do you know for a fact that there was a camera trained on the section of the lane that you used?

[Laurel Green]

TEKNOPUG said:

Is that the parking appeals number? I'll try that at lunch. Thanks

It's their parking Office, but have used the number when dealing with a neighbours parking appeal. Can't remember if they actually dealt with it or, if they transferred me, but did get through to speak to the right person.

[oldsoak]

TEKNOPUG said:

oldsoak said:

Forget it.....pretend I didn't respond at all to your query...Just ring the council up tell them you drove in a bus lane and where would they like you to send the £60.
Whilst you're at it you could also put your hands up to any other parking/moving traffic offence you may have committed but not received notice of in the past.....
Jeebus it's like swimming in treacle here lately...

So you are advising that if you know that you have committed a traffic violation and you know that the postal delivery to your address is very poor, with many items being mis-delivered or not arriving at all, that it's best to just ignore any pending fines and plead total innocence to any following court orders or bailiff visits?

So everyone should just throw any PCN's or other fine notices in the bin and just pretend that they never received them?

I'm not quite sure why you have posted in that case. Something constructive along the lines of "this is the following number you should call to clarify" or "PCN's are not enforceable unless the council can prove that you have received them" would have been more appropriate.

Still more useful than Marshalla though I guess

Have you received a PCN?...My understanding is that you haven't...all you have at the moment is a belief you may have contravened a bus lane OK perhaps more than a belief but until you get that PCN...it didn't (in the eyes of the enfocing body) actually happen.

I MAY have exceeded the speed limit last night but until I get official notification of my alleged wrongdoing...I never did it...Get it yet?

ETA...
If you don't respond to a PCN the next thing you will get is a NOTICE TO OWNER...in your case this would be the first point at which you knew for certain someone (other than yourself) noticed your indiscretion.
Also if you do happen to get a PCN sometime soon...make sure it was posted to you so that in the normal course of the post it could reasonably be expected to reach you within 14 days of the alleged offence.

Edited by oldsoak on Monday 9th May 12:37

[TEKNOPUG]

flemke said:

Perhaps a stupid question, but do you know for a fact that there was a camera trained on the section of the lane that you used?

Yeah, pretty certain. Had a look on Streetmap and also a link on their website showing where all their cameras are located.

If I had 100% or even 80% confidence that mail posted to my address actually arrived in a timely manner, then I would be happy to dismiss it as never being issued.

However, as the Post Office still haven't even got round to updating their system with our post code (so no mail redirection) and that I've sent myself 10 letters over 2 weeks to test and only 2 actually ever arrived, the lack of receiving a PCN doesn't make me feel any confidence that one hasn't actually been issued.

Maybe I should have clarified that earlier.

When I lived in Camden, you could go onto their website and view any fines outstanding for your vehicle. Haringey doesn't appear to offer the same facility.

I will try the phone number that Laurel suggested. I don't intend to incriminate myself by owning up to a traffic violation, I just want to ask them if they can confirm if there is anything outstanding for my car.

[TEKNOPUG]

oldsoak said:

TEKNOPUG said:

oldsoak said:

Forget it.....pretend I didn't respond at all to your query...Just ring the council up tell them you drove in a bus lane and where would they like you to send the £60.
Whilst you're at it you could also put your hands up to any other parking/moving traffic offence you may have committed but not received notice of in the past.....
Jeebus it's like swimming in treacle here lately...

So you are advising that if you know that you have committed a traffic violation and you know that the postal delivery to your address is very poor, with many items being mis-delivered or not arriving at all, that it's best to just ignore any pending fines and plead total innocence to any following court orders or bailiff visits?

So everyone should just throw any PCN's or other fine notices in the bin and just pretend that they never received them?

I'm not quite sure why you have posted in that case. Something constructive along the lines of "this is the following number you should call to clarify" or "PCN's are not enforceable unless the council can prove that you have received them" would have been more appropriate.

Still more useful than Marshalla though I guess

Have you received a PCN?...My understanding is that you haven't...all you have at the moment is a belief you may have contravened a bus lane OK perhaps more than a belief but until you get that PCN...it didn't (in the eyes of the enfocing body) actually happen.

I MAY have exceeded the speed limit last night but until I get official notification of my alleged wrongdoing...I never did it...Get it yet?

Is proof that the Council sent it enough proof that I received it, in the eyes of the court? All the previous PCN's I've received have never been sent registered mail. If I had any confidence that my post would actually arrive then I would dismiss it, as it's been 14 days.

As there is a known issue with my post as described above, I would rather settle anything now that have to deal esculations further down the line.

[TEKNOPUG]

oldsoak said:

ETA...
If you don't respond to a PCN the next thing you will get is a NOTICE TO OWNER...in your case this would be the first point at which you knew for certain someone (other than yourself) noticed your indiscretion.
Also if you do happen to get a PCN sometime soon...make sure it was posted to you so that in the normal course of the post it could reasonably be expected to reach you within 14 days of the alleged offence.

Edited by oldsoak on Monday 9th May 12:37

OK, so is a NOTICE TO OWNER sent registered/recorded delivery? If it's just sent via normal mail then it has as much chance of arriving or not, as the original PCN.

Do you see my dilemna?

[oldsoak]

TEKNOPUG said:

flemke said:

Perhaps a stupid question, but do you know for a fact that there was a camera trained on the section of the lane that you used?

Yeah, pretty certain. Had a look on Streetmap and also a link on their website showing where all their cameras are located.

If I had 100% or even 80% confidence that mail posted to my address actually arrived in a timely manner, then I would be happy to dismiss it as never being issued.

However, as the Post Office still haven't even got round to updating their system with our post code (so no mail redirection) and that I've sent myself 10 letters over 2 weeks to test and only 2 actually ever arrived, the lack of receiving a PCN doesn't make me feel any confidence that one hasn't actually been issued.

Maybe I should have clarified that earlier.

When I lived in Camden, you could go onto their website and view any fines outstanding for your vehicle. Haringey doesn't appear to offer the same facility.

I will try the phone number that Laurel suggested. I don't intend to incriminate myself by owning up to a traffic violation, I just want to ask them if they can confirm if there is anything outstanding for my car.

FFS...you're hard work!
I edited that last post viz...
"ETA...
If you don't respond to a PCN the next thing you will get is a NOTICE TO OWNER...in your case this would be the first point at which you knew for certain someone (other than yourself) noticed your indiscretion.
Also if you do happen to get a PCN sometime soon...make sure it was posted to you so that in the normal course of the post it could reasonably be expected to reach you within 14 days of the alleged offence.

Edited by oldsoak on Monday 9th May 12:37"
Also I don't understand why you keep banging on about Registered post...I never mentioned it.
The fact remains that until you actually get some form of official notification that you MAY have been naughty...you don't owe anyone anything

[simoid]

OP, just send a cheque for a few grand to cover any other fines that you may or may not be liable for in the future, just in case the postman has a stroke on his rounds or something. Claim the excess back when you die... simplest solution.

Or phone them and ask if there are any fines outstanding

[mgtony]

The parking shop is next to the Haringey Civic Centre, but don't bother going unless you've got hours to spare to end up with a "computer says no" service. You'll be told to put it in writing.

[oldsoak]

One closing point...If you are so worried that there may be a PCN with your name on it languishing on some sorting room floor. Wait until it would be time barred before you go bleating to the council that you may have been naughty.
It's my understanding you have 21 days in which you can pay the 'discounted amount'...so any contact with the council should be made between day 15 and 20 from the date you think you may have done the deed.