DVLA want me to sorn my car...it already is.........
Discussion
I bought a car a month ago. It had no tax, and I drove it home on trade plates. I went to sorn it, but it already showed up as being sorned and still does. Today I received a letter from the DVLA stating that it was my last chance to tax or sorn it. I don't see what they expect me to do other than assume they've made a mistake. Is this a regular occurrence? I've never had it happen before, so, other than contacting them directly on Tuesday, I don't see what can be done.
Heaveho said:
I bought a car a month ago. It had no tax, and I drove it home on trade plates. I went to sorn it, but it already showed up as being sorned and still does. Today I received a letter from the DVLA stating that it was my last chance to tax or sorn it. I don't see what they expect me to do other than assume they've made a mistake. Is this a regular occurrence? I've never had it happen before, so, other than contacting them directly on Tuesday, I don't see what can be done.
Is it being transferred into trade via V5C/3, or is there a new V5C in your name on the way?SORN is cancelled on change of keeper, always has been since it was introduced in 1998.
The car is privately owned, in my name. The car was sorned when I bought it, and the site says it still is, so obviously it won't let me do it again. Not sure what's supposed to happen under these circumstances. Bloody stupid set of rules in place now come change of ownership time, completely non-intuitive.
Heaveho said:
The car is privately owned, in my name. The car was sorned when I bought it, and the site says it still is, so obviously it won't let me do it again. Not sure what's supposed to happen under these circumstances. Bloody stupid set of rules in place now come change of ownership time, completely non-intuitive.
Have you got the V5C in your name through yet?Could be a software bug which hasn't reset the website from SORN to 'Uninsured' on the change of keeper. In another part of the system the change of keeper has been noticed along with the lack of SORN notification. This latter database is the one which is going to pursue you, not what's on the website.
Dodgy system but what else can you expect?
Dodgy system but what else can you expect?
Heaveho said:
Hi, yes, had it for about a fortnight.........the DVLAs own website is showing the car as being sorned, and tells me I don't need to do anything!
So what happens when you try to SORN it on https://www.sorn.service.gov.uk/ using the V5C doc ref?Heaveho said:
Bloody stupid set of rules in place now come change of ownership time, completely non-intuitive.
SORN is essentially a promise that you're not going to use the car on the road. The old keeper can't promise that you're not going to use it on the road - he has no idea what you're going to do with it. So his SORN becomes meaningless when he sells the car, and it makes sense that the new keeper has to do his own SORN.Obviously if the car is still showing up as SORNed but the DVLA are hassling you to SORN if then there's been a glitch in the system somewhere, but the underlying rules seem sensible enough.
Aretnap said:
Heaveho said:
Bloody stupid set of rules in place now come change of ownership time, completely non-intuitive.
SORN is essentially a promise that you're not going to use the car on the road. The old keeper can't promise that you're not going to use it on the road - he has no idea what you're going to do with it. So his SORN becomes meaningless when he sells the car, and it makes sense that the new keeper has to do his own SORN.I agree that the old owner can't make promises on my behalf, and I understand that it's now my responsibility to deal with it, but when the DVLAs own site is telling you the thing is already on sorn, which it is, and which I accessed using the document reference number on the logbook that they sent me 2 weeks ago, it leaves you nowhere to go, other than, as someone's already suggested, call directly. Which obviously can't happen 'til Tuesday now.
Surely they should have removed it from being on sorn when they were notified of a change of keeper though? That would have allowed me to sorn it in my name using their site, which is supposed to be what it's for, as I understand it?
Taking a screenshot makes sense, I'll do that, thanks for all the replies.
Surely they should have removed it from being on sorn when they were notified of a change of keeper though? That would have allowed me to sorn it in my name using their site, which is supposed to be what it's for, as I understand it?
Taking a screenshot makes sense, I'll do that, thanks for all the replies.
Edited by Heaveho on Sunday 27th March 11:31
Roo said:
Did you SORN it using the new keeper supplement when you bought it?
No, talk me through how that works please.Just to recap, the car has never shown up on the DVLA website as anything other than sorned from day 1. Which would indicate that I wouldn't need to do anything. I'm completely open to the possibility I've unintentionally done something wrong in this whole scenario, but if that's the case, the website is singularly failing to help me, as it continually insists that the car is already sorn. It certainly isn't pointing out that I should be re-sorning it due to a change of keeper. And, as already stated, it's not possible to sorn a car that's already sorned through the DVLA site. You would think that as part of the website design, the brief would be to include this fairly important notification.
New keeper supplement has a slightly different reference number on it to the main V5c. You should've used this number to SORN it when you bought it.
It's now had a change of keeper but the new keeper, you, didn't SORN it or tax it. You're now stuck in the system as not doing what you're required to. It's an £80 fine for failure to declare.
It's now had a change of keeper but the new keeper, you, didn't SORN it or tax it. You're now stuck in the system as not doing what you're required to. It's an £80 fine for failure to declare.
Thanks.........it's not a very transparent system, is it. Why don't the DVLA take it off sorn when they know it's had a change of keeper, therefore making it easier to use their website to do what they require? I can't help feeling I'm being way too rational in suggesting simplifying what is, in essence, a poorly thought out procedure. A cynic might suggest the system is designed like this to catch users out in order to generate income...........
Heaveho said:
I bought a car a month ago. It had no tax....
So the previous owner had SORN'ed the car correctly?Heaveho said:
......and I drove it home on trade plates......
So you're in the motor trade? - Or is this just a lie to cover yourself for driving a SORN'ed car home illegally?Heaveho said:
...I went to sorn it, but it already showed up as being sorned and still does....
Because the DVLA still have it recorded as being SORN'ed by the previous owner. Did you bother to SORN the car as the new owner?Heaveho said:
....Today I received a letter from the DVLA stating that it was my last chance to tax or sorn it.
Because they've been notified that you are now the new keeper and you haven't taxed or SORN'ed the car as you should have done.Heaveho said:
...I don't see what they expect me to do other than assume they've made a mistake...
Really? - You can't see what they expect you to do and it's their mistake?You've bought an untaxed car, and now it is your responsibility to ensure that the DVLA are informed as to whether you are taxing the car or putting it on SORN.
Based on what you've posted already, you had noted that the car was showing as being SORN'ed and so didn't bother to SORN the car as the new keeper.
Heaveho said:
I've never had it happen before, so, other than contacting them directly on Tuesday, I don't see what can be done.
As you drove the car home on trade plates you must be in the motor trade, so how have you never encountered the modern car tax system?Heaveho said:
....The car is privately owned, in my name.....
So how was driving the car on trade plates legal?I was under the impression that the use of trade plates was for driving a vehicle on the road for trade purposes only, not for driving your own privately owned car and dodging the tax requirements?
Heaveho said:
...yes, had it for about a fortnight.........the DVLAs own website is showing the car as being sorned, and tells me I don't need to do anything!.....
Most likely because it is still showing the previous owners SORN, but that doesn't relate to you as the new owner, you still need to inform the DVLA as to whether you want to tax or SORN the car.Heaveho said:
......Surely they should have removed it from being on sorn when they were notified of a change of keeper though? That would have allowed me to sorn it in my name using their site, which is supposed to be what it's for, as I understand it?......
So as you think it should work, the DVLA take off the previous registered SORN and record the car on their database as what? - Taxed?, SORN'ed?, Quarantined? Until the DVLA have all of the new details about the cars ownership and tax situation so that they can update their database, it's far simpler for them to leave the old details in place.
Heaveho said:
Roo said:
Did you SORN it using the new keeper supplement when you bought it?
No, talk me through how that works please....Heaveho said:
......and I drove it home on trade plates......
......how do you not know how the modern tax/SORN system works? 
Heaveho said:
Thanks.........it's not a very transparent system, is it....
How is it not transparent?: (From: https://www.gov.uk/sorn-statutory-off-road-notific... ) :You must make a SORN in any of the following situations:
You buy a vehicle and want to keep it off the road (you can’t transfer a SORN from the previous keeper)
When a SORN starts and ends:
When a SORN starts depends on how you apply for it - your SORN will start:
1)Immediately if you use your V5C reference to apply online or by phone
2) On the first day of the next month if you use your V11 reference to apply online or by phone
3) On the date you put on the form if you apply by post
- Your SORN lasts until you tax your vehicle again or it’s sold, scrapped or permanently exported. You don’t need to do anything to renew or remove a SORN.
- Reading that last sentence says to Me that it applies to the previous registered keeper and not the new keeper.
Heaveho said:
....Why don't the DVLA take it off sorn when they know it's had a change of keeper....
Because then Millions of vehicles would be lost in a database blackhole because they are no longer recorded as being either taxed or SORN'ed for a period of time!Under the present system that the DVLA operate when it comes to private sales, the vehicle should always be either taxed or SORN'ed with no interruptions in the process. The vehicle will either be taxed or SORN'ed by the previous keeper until the point of sale, and then at the point of sale it should be taxed or SORN'ed by the new keeper immediately. That way, vehicles should not disappear from any period if time from the system.
Basically, you have failed to follow the correct procedure when it comes to ensuring your new vehicle is taxed or SORN'ed, you have made an incorrect assumption about the vehicle being shown as SORN'ed on the DVLA database, and yet somehow it is all the DVLA's fault!
I read some of your replies, then frankly got bored of the attitude........the part accusing me of telling lies is about where you lost me. I'm not in the motor trade, I used to be, and, as stated, the car was driven home on current trade plates as I still have contacts, and am able to call upon them. But thanks for the negative assumptions. I did say that it was likely I was making a mistake somewhere along the line, which appears to be the case, the fact that the DVLA compound it by leaving the car on their site as sorned, obviously doesn't help.
Thanks for all of the helpful replies from others. People like the above poster with that kind of attitude are ruining this place, but that seems to be the future on here now. Perhaps reading everything I'd previously written might have helped?
Thanks for all of the helpful replies from others. People like the above poster with that kind of attitude are ruining this place, but that seems to be the future on here now. Perhaps reading everything I'd previously written might have helped?
Gassing Station | Speed, Plod & the Law | Top of Page | What's New | My Stuff