German speeding fines
Discussion
We've had about a dozen of these arrive at work this week for our fleet, helpfully all written in German.
It looks like they are just insisting on a financial penalty fine (so far from 30Euro up to 500Euro), but I'd prefer to transfer them to the end user to let them deal with it.
Has anyone had any dealings with this recently and how was the experience?
It looks like they are just insisting on a financial penalty fine (so far from 30Euro up to 500Euro), but I'd prefer to transfer them to the end user to let them deal with it.
Has anyone had any dealings with this recently and how was the experience?
Thanks all - we are in the leasing business, supplying vehicles to corporate fleets who in turn will pass them to the drivers. We usually transfer liability on the UK issued fines and charges etc, or contest them if necessary, but this is the first batch that has landed on my desk.
I'll look at the other threads and get my Google Translate updated. Ideally I'd like to transfer these to our customer who can pass them on or settle, but I just wanted to know how others had found the process.
I'll look at the other threads and get my Google Translate updated. Ideally I'd like to transfer these to our customer who can pass them on or settle, but I just wanted to know how others had found the process.
AGT will be able to say if I'm talking b
ks here, however my understanding is that most EU countries differ from the UK, in that the RK is held liable for these kind of things rather than the driver. Hence complaints that we cannot pursue EU drivers offending here in the same way EU countries can in the reverse.
This may also be bks, however my belief is that if not paid, fines levied on UK RKs are treated by the UK courts as if they were fines handed down via the UK justice system.
In other words, if you're the RK, make sure you don't end up carrying the judicial can by assuming the driver is the important one and bot bothering to follow up.
Huge apologies, hugs and sloppy kisses if I am barking (up the wrong tree).
ks here, however my understanding is that most EU countries differ from the UK, in that the RK is held liable for these kind of things rather than the driver. Hence complaints that we cannot pursue EU drivers offending here in the same way EU countries can in the reverse.This may also be b
ks, however my belief is that if not paid, fines levied on UK RKs are treated by the UK courts as if they were fines handed down via the UK justice system.In other words, if you're the RK, make sure you don't end up carrying the judicial can by assuming the driver is the important one and bot bothering to follow up.
Huge apologies, hugs and sloppy kisses if I am barking (up the wrong tree).
agtlaw said:
Translated documents discussed here.
EU Cross Border Enforcement Directive 2015/413, Article 5:3. Where the Member State of the offence decides to initiate follow-up proceedings in relation to the road-safety related traffic offences listed in Article 2, the Member State of the offence, for the purpose of ensuring the respect of fundamental rights, sends the information letter in the language of the registration document of the vehicle, if available, or in one of the official languages of the Member State of registration.
There are a number of issues with cross-border traffic fine enforcement that have yet to be fully worked out. It's all a bit of a clusterf
k at the moment. Hire companies are usually allowed under local law to nominate the hiring party and eliminate further liability. Has this option been extended to the UK company? Liability for German fines could only be "transferred" to a third party if the relevant German law provided for this.I haven't seen any.
This (from the explanatory note to the Road Vehicles (Registration and Licensing) (Amendment) Regulations 2017) is interesting:
7.3 The Directive provides a mechanism for Member States to exchange the identity of the registered keeper or owner of a vehicle, as opposed to the identity of the driver, at the time of the offence. This information is sufficient for Member States with keeper liability to take enforcement action. But for counties with driver liability, such as the UK, Ireland, Germany, Italy, Spain, Austria etc., further information would be needed to commence enforcement proceedings. So in practice only half of all states are likely to be able to make full use of the Directive.
7.4 Ultimately, it is up to individual Member States what they might do with keeper details when received. Where a country has keeper liability for road traffic offences they will be more likely to pursue offenders. However other Member States can write to a keeper about an offence requesting the identity of a driver at the time an offence is committed. It would up to police forces to determine whether to request the information from foreign keepers, or to otherwise seek Member State assistance in finding the offender. This is a topic of concern for many other Member States who are forming an EU sub-group to scrutinise these “secondary enforcement activities” and recommend practical solutions for implementation.
The UK government, anyway, appears to believe that Germany has driver liability rather than keeper liability for relevant road traffic offences (perhaps "infractions" would be more appropriate?). The sample Information Letter in Annex 2 of the Directive does include questions about the driver of the vehicle--were such questions asked of the OP?
This (from the explanatory note to the Road Vehicles (Registration and Licensing) (Amendment) Regulations 2017) is interesting:
7.3 The Directive provides a mechanism for Member States to exchange the identity of the registered keeper or owner of a vehicle, as opposed to the identity of the driver, at the time of the offence. This information is sufficient for Member States with keeper liability to take enforcement action. But for counties with driver liability, such as the UK, Ireland, Germany, Italy, Spain, Austria etc., further information would be needed to commence enforcement proceedings. So in practice only half of all states are likely to be able to make full use of the Directive.
7.4 Ultimately, it is up to individual Member States what they might do with keeper details when received. Where a country has keeper liability for road traffic offences they will be more likely to pursue offenders. However other Member States can write to a keeper about an offence requesting the identity of a driver at the time an offence is committed. It would up to police forces to determine whether to request the information from foreign keepers, or to otherwise seek Member State assistance in finding the offender. This is a topic of concern for many other Member States who are forming an EU sub-group to scrutinise these “secondary enforcement activities” and recommend practical solutions for implementation.
The UK government, anyway, appears to believe that Germany has driver liability rather than keeper liability for relevant road traffic offences (perhaps "infractions" would be more appropriate?). The sample Information Letter in Annex 2 of the Directive does include questions about the driver of the vehicle--were such questions asked of the OP?
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