Police Car with camera or gun on hard shoulder ?
Discussion
On saturday comming up the M40 there was a marked volvo diagonally on the hard shoulder with a policeman sitting out the passeneger side pointing a handheld (no tripod)video camera sized something back up the carriageway.
What would type of a device would this be ?
Can you get a diagonal reading on cars with laser/radar camera devices ?
What would type of a device would this be ?
Can you get a diagonal reading on cars with laser/radar camera devices ?
JumJum said:
On saturday comming up the M40 there was a marked volvo diagonally on the hard shoulder with a policeman sitting out the passeneger side pointing a handheld (no tripod)video camera sized something back up the carriageway.
What would type of a device would this be ?
Can you get a diagonal reading on cars with laser/radar camera devices ?
Seen this many times. Oxfordhire plod do it loads. Fit a garage door opener.
I was coming down the A303 and could make out the rear markings of a Police car in a layby ahead. When I got close I realised the driver door was slightly open and the policeman was laying across the front seats holding the speed gun out of the door at seat height. It must have been uncomfortable for him and was propably on the safest section of the A303.
bruciebabie said:
On saturday comming up the M40 there was a marked volvo diagonally on the hard shoulder with a policeman sitting out the passeneger side pointing a handheld (no tripod)video camera sized something back up the carriageway.
What would type of a device would this be ?
Can you get a diagonal reading on cars with laser/radar camera devices ?
Seen this many times. Oxfordhire plod do it loads. Fit a garage door opener.
Not oxfordshire of its a volvo.
Probably a LTI 20-20 lazer.
Behave.
Chances of someone hitting a police car are just the same as any other vehicle. Except the police motorway drivers are trained for the hazzards and as such im sure would not put themselves in a position of danger where they cannot see potential hazzards.
Any excuse to have a pop.
Chances of someone hitting a police car are just the same as any other vehicle. Except the police motorway drivers are trained for the hazzards and as such im sure would not put themselves in a position of danger where they cannot see potential hazzards.
Any excuse to have a pop.
For completeness:-
ACPO guidelines said:
LASER:-
The handheld devices, on occasions, have the appearance of a firearm. It is therefore important that this fact is borne in mind when operating such units. The operator must be clearly visible to the public and the target vehicle throughout the check.
ACPO guidelines prohibit the use of handheld radar speed detection equipment for enforcement purposes from within a vehicle. Laser/Optical hand held devices may be used from within a vehicle but the beam will not be projected through glass or mirrors. The power source however can be taken directly from the vehicle or from an independent supply.
^Slider^ said:
Behave.
Chances of someone hitting a police car are just the same as any other vehicle. Except the police motorway drivers are trained for the hazzards and as such im sure would not put themselves in a position of danger where they cannot see potential hazzards.
Any excuse to have a pop.
The police are using a designated area that is for emergencies only! Are you suggesting that they can park up and eat their sandwiches on the hard shoulder, because they have training?
Pull the other one. Its out of order - they should use the ramps provided, or keep off the hard shoulder.
Thats what i said. Not in a vehicle behind glass. If the window is down or door open the guidelines are not breached.
As for the firearms bit, if they aint wearing a high vis then these are not breached either, it was more of a public paranoia thing than anything else.
As i said guideines are just those. Nothing in law to say they must be complied with.
As for the firearms bit, if they aint wearing a high vis then these are not breached either, it was more of a public paranoia thing than anything else.
As i said guideines are just those. Nothing in law to say they must be complied with.
PoD.
I am in no way suggesting that they pull into a hard shoulder to eat sandwiches. That would be foolish and is just as foolish for someone to suggest they do so.
What i am saying is that they have the training to position themselves and identify the risks themselves that you do not have.
They have to justify it.
They have to ensure their safety and yours. If they are parked dangerously then report away. But if they are parked in a way that they can be seen by someone AWAKE and not falling asleep then what is the problem. And if they are in a position to identify the risks and take any action required to advoiud the risks then what is the problem.
What you are suggesting is that we all take measures to advoid the driver falling asleep. We may as well not turn on house lights in case of a gas leak or incase we get electricuted or blown up!
Again BiB bashing.
I am in no way suggesting that they pull into a hard shoulder to eat sandwiches. That would be foolish and is just as foolish for someone to suggest they do so.
What i am saying is that they have the training to position themselves and identify the risks themselves that you do not have.
They have to justify it.
They have to ensure their safety and yours. If they are parked dangerously then report away. But if they are parked in a way that they can be seen by someone AWAKE and not falling asleep then what is the problem. And if they are in a position to identify the risks and take any action required to advoiud the risks then what is the problem.
What you are suggesting is that we all take measures to advoid the driver falling asleep. We may as well not turn on house lights in case of a gas leak or incase we get electricuted or blown up!
Again BiB bashing.
Right, well the next time I see this happen, I think I'll 'detect' a problem with my car, and pull in right behind them.
Lets see how safe that position is then, when I have to try and pull out.
Under no circumstances should a police car be using the hard shoulder to carry out surveillance - its dangerous, and just plain wrong. No amount of training can excuse it.
Lets see how safe that position is then, when I have to try and pull out.
Under no circumstances should a police car be using the hard shoulder to carry out surveillance - its dangerous, and just plain wrong. No amount of training can excuse it.
^Slider^ said:
What i am saying is that they have the training to position themselves and identify the risks themselves that you do not have.
No BiB bashing here ^Slider^ just some comments from your fellow officers and some stats.
There was a report from HMIC a few years back that told how only 40% of one Force's motorway police were trained for the job, and while the result was made public HMIC refused to name and shame. Maybe you know more about this or remember the report? Some other comments suggest that traffic police consider their own safety to be compromised.
Gwent Traffic BiB said:
the lack of investment in staff and other resources means that vital training is constantly cancelled or delayed
Notts Traffic BiB said:Not to mention a MoP, but in general terms didn't the police driver training programmes of old get the accident rate for BiB down from an average of one every 8,000 miles to one every 80,000? Due to training cutbacks isn't it true that the rate is back to 8,000 and polac rates continue to rise as we type?
we have ... a small Motorway Unit which does not work nights on the M1. The A1 is covered by drivers without traffic training or
experience. If lucky, they have had a one day course in coning accidents and basic safety. How long will it be before an officer is killed or maimed?
In this context MoP fears over safety re. police judgement and the lack of training are justified surely?
JumJum said:I’ve never heard of handheld ANPR and handheld radars aren’t popular, so I would assume it was a laser.
On saturday comming up the M40 there was a marked volvo diagonally on the hard shoulder with a policeman sitting out the passeneger side pointing a handheld (no tripod)video camera sized something back up the carriageway.
What would type of a device would this be ?
JumJum said:yes, although the measured speed may be slightly lower than the actual vehicle speed; an angle of 14 degrees (off perpendicular to direction of vehicle motion) will result with a vehicle travelling at 70mph being measured at 68mph - not much error, but in the motorists favour.
Can you get a diagonal reading on cars with laser/radar camera devices ?
turbobloke said:
What i am saying is that they have the training to position themselves and identify the risks themselves that you do not have.
No BiB bashing here ^Slider^ just some comments from your fellow officers and some stats.
There was a report from HMIC a few years back that told how only 40% of one Force's motorway police were trained for the job, and while the result was made public HMIC refused to name and shame. Maybe you know more about this or remember the report? Some other comments suggest that traffic police consider their own safety to be compromised.
Gwent Traffic BiB said:
the lack of investment in staff and other resources means that vital training is constantly cancelled or delayed
Notts Traffic BiB said:
we have ... a small Motorway Unit which does not work nights on the M1. The A1 is covered by drivers without traffic training or
experience. If lucky, they have had a one day course in coning accidents and basic safety. How long will it be before an officer is killed or maimed?
Not to mention a MoP, but in general terms didn't the police driver training programmes of old get the accident rate for BiB down from an average of one every 8,000 miles to one every 80,000? Due to training cutbacks isn't it true that the rate is back to 8,000 and polac rates continue to rise as we type?
In this context MoP fears over safety re. police judgement and the lack of training are justified surely?
Fair point Turbobloke.
I am mainly refering to my own force where basic drivers do not stop on motorways unless life or death and to traffic are close by. There are obviously issues with regards to driver training but thats another thread.
Main point of my reply was POD throwing his toys out of the pram "Its discusting" when he has very little clue of what training we do.
^Slider^ said:
Behave.
Chances of someone hitting a police car are just the same as any other vehicle. Except the police motorway drivers are trained for the hazzards and as such im sure would not put themselves in a position of danger where they cannot see potential hazzards.
Any excuse to have a pop.
Nein Liebchen... there are those statistics which say ist a big
to sit on hard shoulder as there ist very big chance a car will straddle or weave und one will be hit. You may be trained for hazards - und so are AA/RAC who get the calls out to these breakdowns - und these accidents still occur.
There are mounted und specific places for BiBs to lurk - und I know my own cousin has told me his team are "basking sharks" around slip roads...
Ist stupid und very silly thing to do to park up in hard shoulder like this. He would be better off patrolling up und down to nab tailgaters und Handy users und apple eaters und dounghnut eaters (but that means nicking his own
) than sitting in hard shoulder doing nothing really constructive except place his life in needless danger. Und do not say it does not happen...there are those stats... und we all know speed enforcers really believe all these stats...
So by that token - you have to accept the hard shoulder accident stats
- nicht? JumJum,
I saw that Volvo too on Saturday morning - madness!! The car was on the hardshoulder on a slight kink in the road to the right. Both BiB's standing alongside the n/s of the car getting their gun thingy out to start using it.
If hard shoulders aren't the dangerous place we're constantly told they are, why do they recommend getting the family out of the car and sitting on the bank when you break down, even in the depths of winter?
And in future, we'll all learn to brake like crazy when we see a patrol car on the hard shoulder just in case we were slightly over the limit.
Surely the BiB on here can't be happy with this approach (I assume they're being tasked to do it).
Rob
I saw that Volvo too on Saturday morning - madness!! The car was on the hardshoulder on a slight kink in the road to the right. Both BiB's standing alongside the n/s of the car getting their gun thingy out to start using it.
If hard shoulders aren't the dangerous place we're constantly told they are, why do they recommend getting the family out of the car and sitting on the bank when you break down, even in the depths of winter?
And in future, we'll all learn to brake like crazy when we see a patrol car on the hard shoulder just in case we were slightly over the limit.
Surely the BiB on here can't be happy with this approach (I assume they're being tasked to do it).
Rob
I am afraid I have to agree with people in the fact that it is disgusting and dangerous, no matter how much training, for police to sit on the hard shoulder to carry out something as unimportant as speed checks. They should park there as everyone else, for an emergency only.
Isn't the hard shoulder where most accidents happen on the moterway? Its absolute madness, and idiots doing this are endangering public and their own lifes, they should be disciplined severely.
Moterways have ramps off the hard shoulder, were police can sit in relative safety, to carry out non emergency operations. This is were any speed checks I have seen have been carried out from.
I know you may try to defend them slider, but this isn't BIB slagging, its common sense.
Isn't the hard shoulder where most accidents happen on the moterway? Its absolute madness, and idiots doing this are endangering public and their own lifes, they should be disciplined severely.
Moterways have ramps off the hard shoulder, were police can sit in relative safety, to carry out non emergency operations. This is were any speed checks I have seen have been carried out from.
I know you may try to defend them slider, but this isn't BIB slagging, its common sense.
Gassing Station | Speed, Plod & the Law | Top of Page | What's New | My Stuff