Responding to a NIP

[ScoobyChris]

Hi all,

Know there are lots of knowledgeable people on here so hopefully can get a bit of advice. Situation is that my wife was involved in an "incident" on Wednesday while driving my car. I have just received a NIP addressed to me (as Registered Keeper) telling me the Police intend to prosecute for the alleged offences of Careless driving, Fail to Stop and Fail to Report Road Traffic Accident. Is it simply a case of filling in the S172 with my wife's name and returning, or should I also include a cover note describing the events from her perspective? They have included an "additional page" requesting things like insurance details, mobile number, email etc which is voluntary.

For anyone interested, the incident occurred at a junction where she was turning left from a minor road to a major road (with the nose of the car already over the give-way line as she waited for a gap in the traffic) when two pedestrians decided to cross the road in front of the car, rather than behind. She drove forward when there was a gap in traffic, saw them and stopped sharply and as far as she knows made no contact. One of the pedestrians claimed that the car "touched her hand", although the thick layer of dirt on the front of the car hasn't been disturbed, and she seemed to have no issues using it afterwards. My wife got out of the car and apologised and asked if they were ok or had any injuries while one of them decided to call the police. They both told her they did not have any injuries but that she wasn't allowed to leave as they were calling the police. My wife called me to ask what to do and as there had been no accident and more specifically no injuries, I told her to leave them to it and come home - they took the car registration and passed it to the police.

Thanks, Chris

[Geffg]

I imagine it is a case of just filling in drivers details and send back. Then they will send one to her and deal with whatever else afterwards.
Surely would’ve been better to stay and wait for the police in that instance, especially as one of them was on the phone to police to report it so you know the kind of person she is. Then the police could’ve seen no injuries, no marks on the car etc. Now you have to deal with leaving the scene.
I know it’s too late now and hind sight etc.
suppose now depends if she’s faking injury and any hospital report if she has any

[agtlaw]

ScoobyChris said:

Hi all,

Know there are lots of knowledgeable people on here so hopefully can get a bit of advice. Situation is that my wife was involved in an "incident" on Wednesday while driving my car. I have just received a NIP addressed to me (as Registered Keeper) telling me the Police intend to prosecute for the alleged offences of Careless driving, Fail to Stop and Fail to Report Road Traffic Accident. Is it simply a case of filling in the S172 with my wife's name and returning, or should I also include a cover note describing the events from her perspective? They have included an "additional page" requesting things like insurance details, mobile number, email etc which is voluntary.

For anyone interested, the incident occurred at a junction where she was turning left from a minor road to a major road (with the nose of the car already over the give-way line as she waited for a gap in the traffic) when two pedestrians decided to cross the road in front of the car, rather than behind. She drove forward when there was a gap in traffic, saw them and stopped sharply and as far as she knows made no contact. One of the pedestrians claimed that the car "touched her hand", although the thick layer of dirt on the front of the car hasn't been disturbed, and she seemed to have no issues using it afterwards. My wife got out of the car and apologised and asked if they were ok or had any injuries while one of them decided to call the police. They both told her they did not have any injuries but that she wasn't allowed to leave as they were calling the police. My wife called me to ask what to do and as there had been no accident and more specifically no injuries, I told her to leave them to it and come home - they took the car registration and passed it to the police.

Thanks, Chris

Complete the form. Nominate your wife. Do not send a cover letter. Do not complete the additional page. If you can't do it online then return the completed form by Signed For post. Keep the receipt.

In due course, your wife will receive a notice - which she should deal with.

[ScoobyChris]

Thanks, both.

[Ian Geary]

Hi there

From time to time I see threads where a dashcam footage would have been invaluable. This seems like one. They are pretty cheap now, and quick to fit.

[BertBert]

Just wondering OP whether you think in retrospect, leaving the scene in the circumstances was the best course of action?

[fatboy b]

BertBert said:

Just wondering OP whether you think in retrospect, leaving the scene in the circumstances was the best course of action?

I would have done the same if I was happy that nothing actually happened.

[Solocle]

If there was no injury or damage to a 3rd party then there's no duty to stop.

Careless driving, though, even if you've nosed over the give way line, the pedestrians were main road traffic and had priority. I once watched someone trying to emerge onto a more major road looking to their right (they were turning left), and then nearly drove under a lorry that was passing vehicles parked across the junction.

[ScoobyChris]

Thanks for the continued replies. Yes, without injuries, there was no duty to stop which is why I told her to confirm they were fine and then leave. She didn't ask for our details and we didn't offer, given there was no injury or damage. Whether we'd do the same again, who knows and we'll see how this plays out, but, living on the outskirts of London, I'd be surprised if they prioritised an in-person attendance for this.

I also think careless driving may be a stretch, given they had prioritiy and she stopped immediately when she saw them without hitting/injuring them and they continued crossing the road just fine. A small lapse in judgement maybe, but falling below the standard expected "of a competent and careful driver", I'm not sure. It's the sort of non-event that must happen daily that I'd expect to be dealt with by a bit of swearing and an apology tbh!

Chris

[jondude]

ScoobyChris said:

Thanks for the continued replies. Yes, without injuries, there was no duty to stop which is why I told her to confirm they were fine and then leave. She didn't ask for our details and we didn't offer, given there was no injury or damage. Whether we'd do the same again, who knows and we'll see how this plays out, but, living on the outskirts of London, I'd be surprised if they prioritised an in-person attendance for this.

I also think careless driving may be a stretch, given they had prioritiy and she stopped immediately when she saw them without hitting/injuring them and they continued crossing the road just fine. A small lapse in judgement maybe, but falling below the standard expected "of a competent and careful driver", I'm not sure. It's the sort of non-event that must happen daily that I'd expect to be dealt with by a bit of swearing and an apology tbh!

Chris

Agree that if not harm was done it seems harsh to give/charge a serious offence. However, this was a recent law change (pedestrians have full priority) and the government knows they did not do enough to advertise it - I do stop to let pedestrians cross and many more seem as confused about what I am doing as opposed to those who know and who (often dangerously, no slowing down even on tight, low view junctions for the driver) claim 'my right'. The middle ground where we all take care, slow it down and all help each other at junctions where pedestrians cross, has not happened.

So my fear is the police will be ordered to clamp down hard on this so the papers start making it clear drivers are the ones to give way no matter what.

Make cases such as your wife here the example

Don't give up though, keep making the point she corrected the move and no-one was hurt.

[Starfighter]

Of the 3 possible charges 2 fail immediately. The failure to stop fails as your wife did stop. The failure to report fails as there is no requirement to report unless there is an injury and your wife confirmed this to be the case. The careless does not require a collision or injury, the moving forward without confirming the way was clear could be enough.

I am surprised there was not a failure to provide details on the list. Even a tiny contact could be enough to require a stop (done) and to provide the driver details on o anyone with reasonable grounds to have those details (driver name and address and keeper name and address).

[iDrive]

jondude said:

So my fear is the police will be ordered to clamp down hard on this so the papers start making it clear drivers are the ones to give way no matter what.

I know the papers make it seem like this *must* be the case, but it's for the Police (and at a National level the Police Chiefs lead on Road Safety) to indicate a preferred approach - even then, local Officers consider how to apply any new law to given circumstances.

[Cold]

After your wife has returned the updated NIP she will most likely be invited in to the police station for a "quick chat to clear things up".

Under no circumstances allow her to do this without legal representation sitting in with her.

[simonas2702]

Cold said:

After your wife has returned the updated NIP she will most likely be invited in to the police station for a "quick chat to clear things up".

Under no circumstances allow her to do this without legal representation sitting in with her.

especially as its free!!

I do loads of these and in situations like this they often don't report the offences just give advice

[E-bmw]

Starfighter said:

The careless does not require a collision or injury, the moving forward without confirming the way was clear could be enough.

It doesn't really though does it?

How many junctions do you know of where it is 100% impossible to actually see until you nose out?

I go over one very regularly with a stop line & no kerb to the right with a bend immediately to the right also, you have to nose out to see.

How many idiots park right up to the edge of my driveway meaning that I can't see until I nose out past them, and yet I am committing no offence or I would be housebound.

[BertBert]

E-bmw said:

Starfighter said:

The careless does not require a collision or injury, the moving forward without confirming the way was clear could be enough.

It doesn't really though does it?

How many junctions do you know of where it is 100% impossible to actually see until you nose out?

I go over one very regularly with a stop line & no kerb to the right with a bend immediately to the right also, you have to nose out to see.

How many idiots park right up to the edge of my driveway meaning that I can't see until I nose out past them, and yet I am committing no offence or I would be housebound.

I think starlord meant moving forward with people in front of you!

[QBee]

One of my company car drivers was trying to turn left out of the office car park onto a busy A road.
He waited ages for a gap in the traffic coming from his right and when he saw one he moved off - and a cyclist, cycling on the pavement and coming from my driver's left, landed on his bonnet.
Police called because the guy was slightly injured, mortified driver apologised and admitted responsibility.
No action from the police - cyclist was not one of the lycra go pro mafia, and "accidents happen, with the best will in the world".

[qwerty360]

One point for general consideration;

If there has been a collision or allegation of a collision (and you know in this case there has), IMHO it isn't a bad idea to provide insurance details to police as soon as possible (i.e. within 24 hours).

Even if you have exchanged details this covers you against allegations of failure to provide insurance details.


I am fairly sure you can do this online for most forces (and technically you can report to any force, so can use the MET form for anywhere in the country for this), and you can print a copy of the form to use for your own notes for any defence - while it is witness statements, my understanding is courts will give a heavier weight to notes taken at the time than just verbal statements.

[martinbiz]

qwerty360 said:

One point for general consideration;

If there has been a collision or allegation of a collision (and you know in this case there has), IMHO it isn't a bad idea to provide insurance details to police as soon as possible (i.e. within 24 hours).

Even if you have exchanged details this covers you against allegations of failure to provide insurance details.

.

As there is no legal requirement to exchange insurance details at the scene, I somehow doubt those allegations would matter

[martinbiz]

ScoobyChris said:

Thanks for the continued replies. Yes, without injuries, there was no duty to stop which is why I told her to confirm they were fine and then leave. She didn't ask for our details and we didn't offer, given there was no injury or damage. Whether we'd do the same again, who knows and we'll see how this plays out, but, living on the outskirts of London, I'd be surprised if they prioritised an in-person attendance for this.

I also think careless driving may be a stretch, given they had prioritiy and she stopped immediately when she saw them without hitting/injuring them and they continued crossing the road just fine. A small lapse in judgement maybe, but falling below the standard expected "of a competent and careful driver", I'm not sure. It's the sort of non-event that must happen daily that I'd expect to be dealt with by a bit of swearing and an apology tbh!

Chris

The original NIP will often have list of offences that may or may not end up being relevant to the specific circumstances of the alleged incident. It is highly unlikely someone will be prosecuted for the entire list, possibly for one or maybe two and possibly for none. As said earlier, at the moment all you are being asked for is the identity of the driver at the time to fulfil your obligation under s172. Get that done and post back here when you have an answer back