Whose insurance should pay dealership's or the customers'?
Discussion
It seems that JLR are treating their customers with contempt again. Flooding of a dealership after a storm is just bad luck, nobody to blame, but is it acceptable to tell the customers to contact their own insurance companies to make a claim?
https://cardealermagazine.co.uk/publish/furious-ja...
Should the customer cars at the dealership, under the care of the dealership, not be covered by the dealership's policy? It would be especially annoying if they were there for an extended period due to JLR being rubbish at supplying parts for repairs in the first place... People's sympathies for Tom Hartley may be variable, but I suspect he's not the only one in that situation. It seems ridiculous that customers need to claim on their own policy.
https://cardealermagazine.co.uk/publish/furious-ja...
Should the customer cars at the dealership, under the care of the dealership, not be covered by the dealership's policy? It would be especially annoying if they were there for an extended period due to JLR being rubbish at supplying parts for repairs in the first place... People's sympathies for Tom Hartley may be variable, but I suspect he's not the only one in that situation. It seems ridiculous that customers need to claim on their own policy.
The Gauge said:
I’d assume you have to claim from your own insurance and your insurers may ultimately claim from the Jaguar dealership.
Yes, "Subrogation" which refers to the right your insurance company holds under your policy — after they've paid a covered claim — to request reimbursement from the at-fault party. This reimbursement often comes from the at-fault party's insurance company.QuickQuack said:
It seems that JLR are treating their customers with contempt again. Flooding of a dealership after a storm is just bad luck, nobody to blame, but is it acceptable to tell the customers to contact their own insurance companies to make a claim?
https://cardealermagazine.co.uk/publish/furious-ja...
Should the customer cars at the dealership, under the care of the dealership, not be covered by the dealership's policy? It would be especially annoying if they were there for an extended period due to JLR being rubbish at supplying parts for repairs in the first place... People's sympathies for Tom Hartley may be variable, but I suspect he's not the only one in that situation. It seems ridiculous that customers need to claim on their own policy.
You have answered your own question there.https://cardealermagazine.co.uk/publish/furious-ja...
Should the customer cars at the dealership, under the care of the dealership, not be covered by the dealership's policy? It would be especially annoying if they were there for an extended period due to JLR being rubbish at supplying parts for repairs in the first place... People's sympathies for Tom Hartley may be variable, but I suspect he's not the only one in that situation. It seems ridiculous that customers need to claim on their own policy.
It's not the dealership, it's their insurers who have rightly said it's not their issue.Public car parks are different, are they not? They don't have a duty of care to the cars on their site because the cars are not under their control. You don't leave your keys with a car park or trust them to work on your car, it's a totally different relationship. The analogy doesn't work. A dealership has a duty of care towards its customers and to the cars it's been trusted with. The same doesn't apply to a freely accessible car park.
If you left your stuff at my house, and my house was burgled, it would be my house insurance which would be responsible for your loss as it's my property that was burgled. If our cleaner or gardener injures themselves within our property, our insurance is responsible as we are employing them at the time. Yes, that's in the policy.
I don't have my car at Inchcape Derby JLR so I'm not affected, but it doesn't fill me with confidence about how JLR treats its customers. If this genuinely is how the dealership insurance works, then fine, so be it. However, I still think that it's absolutely pathetic. Maybe they should've paid for a better insurance product.
If you left your stuff at my house, and my house was burgled, it would be my house insurance which would be responsible for your loss as it's my property that was burgled. If our cleaner or gardener injures themselves within our property, our insurance is responsible as we are employing them at the time. Yes, that's in the policy.
I don't have my car at Inchcape Derby JLR so I'm not affected, but it doesn't fill me with confidence about how JLR treats its customers. If this genuinely is how the dealership insurance works, then fine, so be it. However, I still think that it's absolutely pathetic. Maybe they should've paid for a better insurance product.
QuickQuack said:
If you left your stuff at my house, and my house was burgled, it would be my house insurance which would be responsible for your loss as it's my property that was burgled. If our cleaner or gardener injures themselves within our property, our insurance is responsible as we are employing them at the time. Yes, that's in the policy.
.
Wrong. My stuff left in your house only becomes your or your insurer's responsibility if you were negligent in the event that led to their damage or loss. If your cleaner or gardener gets injured, again it's down to negligence. If they were injured because they made an error, that's not down to you. If they were injured because they tripped on a hole in your stair carpet, then yes, it's down to you. .
Your household policy covers third party liability, losses of other people's property or their injury as A RESULT OF YOUR NEGLIGENCE. But not otherwise.
But a dealer having some sort of 'duty of care' doesn't mean that they are then responsible for any harm at all that may befall your car while they've got it. If the weather forecast said that there was biblical rain on the way and they left your car right next to a waterway that flooded regularly then yes they probably are liable. If it was a freak flash downpour that flooded their forecourt for the first time, then they're not. If your gardener injures himself because he had five pints before coming round and fell out of a tree then you're not liable. If he injures himself because you provided him with a poorly maintained chainsaw then you are. The question here is not 'does the dealer have any kind of duty of care?', it is 'have they been negligent?'.
Edit: I now see that Twig's said essentially the same thing!
Edited by Roger Irrelevant on Sunday 12th November 11:05
Edit: I now see that Twig's said essentially the same thing!
Edited by Roger Irrelevant on Sunday 12th November 11:07
QuickQuack said:
Public car parks are different, are they not? They don't have a duty of care to the cars on their site because the cars are not under their control. You don't leave your keys with a car park or trust them to work on your car, it's a totally different relationship. The analogy doesn't work. A dealership has a duty of care towards its customers and to the cars it's been trusted with. The same doesn't apply to a freely accessible car park.
If you left your stuff at my house, and my house was burgled, it would be my house insurance which would be responsible for your loss as it's my property that was burgled. If our cleaner or gardener injures themselves within our property, our insurance is responsible as we are employing them at the time. Yes, that's in the policy.
I don't have my car at Inchcape Derby JLR so I'm not affected, but it doesn't fill me with confidence about how JLR treats its customers. If this genuinely is how the dealership insurance works, then fine, so be it. However, I still think that it's absolutely pathetic. Maybe they should've paid for a better insurance product.
Don't try to blame the Insurers; their policy covers (amongst other things) the dealer's legal liabilty for loss of or damage to customers' vehicles. On the basis of the information we have so far they have no legal liabilty for such damage. If you left your stuff at my house, and my house was burgled, it would be my house insurance which would be responsible for your loss as it's my property that was burgled. If our cleaner or gardener injures themselves within our property, our insurance is responsible as we are employing them at the time. Yes, that's in the policy.
I don't have my car at Inchcape Derby JLR so I'm not affected, but it doesn't fill me with confidence about how JLR treats its customers. If this genuinely is how the dealership insurance works, then fine, so be it. However, I still think that it's absolutely pathetic. Maybe they should've paid for a better insurance product.
Jeremy-75qq8 said:
I don't know the answer but it is widely reported that the Luton carp park fire victims also have to claim of their own insurance.
I suppose inchcape were not negligent unless they had received flood warnings and decided to take no action
I suppose inchcape were not negligent unless they had received flood warnings and decided to take no action
https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.derbytelegraph.co...
Cattle market is where the dealership is...
TwigtheWonderkid said:
Wrong. My stuff left in your house only becomes your or your insurer's responsibility if you were negligent in the event that led to their damage or loss. If your cleaner or gardener gets injured, again it's down to negligence. If they were injured because they made an error, that's not down to you. If they were injured because they tripped on a hole in your stair carpet, then yes, it's down to you.
Your household policy covers third party liability, losses of other people's property or their injury as A RESULT OF YOUR NEGLIGENCE. But not otherwise.
Ok. If the area the dealership is located in receives THREE major flood alerts and the dealership does nothing to mitigate the possible effects, e.g., warn the customers who have working cars to collect them, arrange to move as many as they can to another location temporarily, are they still not negligent? They did nothing despite multiple warnings. Your household policy covers third party liability, losses of other people's property or their injury as A RESULT OF YOUR NEGLIGENCE. But not otherwise.
QuickQuack said:
Ok. If the area the dealership is located in receives THREE major flood alerts and the dealership does nothing to mitigate the possible effects, e.g., warn the customers who have working cars to collect them, arrange to move as many as they can to another location temporarily, are they still not negligent? They did nothing despite multiple warnings.
Yup. Possibly a case for negligence. Good job insurance companies have legal types to sort this out. QuickQuack said:
It seems that JLR are treating their customers with contempt again. Flooding of a dealership after a storm is just bad luck, nobody to blame, but is it acceptable to tell the customers to contact their own insurance companies to make a claim?
https://cardealermagazine.co.uk/publish/furious-ja...
Should the customer cars at the dealership, under the care of the dealership, not be covered by the dealership's policy? It would be especially annoying if they were there for an extended period due to JLR being rubbish at supplying parts for repairs in the first place... People's sympathies for Tom Hartley may be variable, but I suspect he's not the only one in that situation. It seems ridiculous that customers need to claim on their own policy.
Just for clarity, JLR don’t own the dealership, so nothing to do with them really. https://cardealermagazine.co.uk/publish/furious-ja...
Should the customer cars at the dealership, under the care of the dealership, not be covered by the dealership's policy? It would be especially annoying if they were there for an extended period due to JLR being rubbish at supplying parts for repairs in the first place... People's sympathies for Tom Hartley may be variable, but I suspect he's not the only one in that situation. It seems ridiculous that customers need to claim on their own policy.
TwigtheWonderkid said:
Wrong. My stuff left in your house only becomes your or your insurer's responsibility if you were negligent in the event that led to their damage or loss.
That would depend on the wording of the policy - Aviva's contents insurance, for example, explicitly includes cover for possessions of visitors to your home (other than paying guests). See page 5.https://www.google.com/url?sa=t&source=web&...
But if you prefer to buy a policy which only covers your bare minimum legal liability for other people's possessions I suppose that's up to you.
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