Unsigned NIP received
Discussion
Bit of a long shot this one...
Colleague has rec'd a NIP from Metropolitan Police for 38 in a 30.
The NIP states it's on behalf of The Commissioner of Police of the Metropolis - is this the formal title?
The NIP is [b]not[/b] signed. Is this important? At the bottom of the NIP is a 'for official use only' section which reads:
[quote=sixty pounds please]For Official Use Only
Certificate of Service
(Completed and signed only on police copy)
I hereby certify that on the above date I served the addressee shown above with the form of which this is a true copy by sending the said form to him/her by first class post collected by the Royal Mail from the Metropolitan Police Service Traffic Criminal Justice OCU before 5.00 p.m. and addressed to him/her at the address on this copy, being his/her last known or usual place of abode.
(signed) (dated) 26/09/2005[/quote]
Is this legal, not to sign this copy?
I seem to remember North Wales getting a telling off for automatic signatures... :confused:
Colleague has rec'd a NIP from Metropolitan Police for 38 in a 30.
The NIP states it's on behalf of The Commissioner of Police of the Metropolis - is this the formal title?
The NIP is [b]not[/b] signed. Is this important? At the bottom of the NIP is a 'for official use only' section which reads:
[quote=sixty pounds please]For Official Use Only
Certificate of Service
(Completed and signed only on police copy)
I hereby certify that on the above date I served the addressee shown above with the form of which this is a true copy by sending the said form to him/her by first class post collected by the Royal Mail from the Metropolitan Police Service Traffic Criminal Justice OCU before 5.00 p.m. and addressed to him/her at the address on this copy, being his/her last known or usual place of abode.
(signed) (dated) 26/09/2005[/quote]
Is this legal, not to sign this copy?
I seem to remember North Wales getting a telling off for automatic signatures... :confused:
As 'customers' they force us to sign them, therefore I would conclude that it is NOT a valid NIP as it is not signed, therefore keep it until the 14 days are up then return it explaining why it is invalid. Don't forget to keep copies of everything.
I expect DVD will be along soon to explain why I am wrong
I expect DVD will be along soon to explain why I am wrong
Firstly lets find out what is what. For speeding offence detected by a static unmanned camera you as the Reg Keeper of vehicle involved should get two documents. They may be combined in one form.
Firstly the NOIP part which has to be sent to Reg Keeper within 14 clear days of the offence. This form meerly brings to the attention of the offender the possibility of proceedings so that he is not caught short and can plan his defence. There is no requirement at law as far as I am aware that this has to be signed.
With the NOIP will be a demand, by or on behalf of a chief officer of Police, to name the driver at the time of the offence. This has to be returned within 28 days otherwise offence committed. The part is usually signed BUT where the Notice has been produced from an official source and has every appearence of authenticity, justices may drawn an inference as to the validity of the Notice (Pamplin v Gorman [1980]) and provided the justices are satiusfied that the sender of the notice was acting on behalf of the chief officer of Police IT IS NOT NECCESSARY that the specially authorised person shall sign every notice that is issued (Arnold v DPP [1999]
The recent past kerfuffle with S172 was because, was it not North Wales SCP, did not make it plain that the request was being made by or on behalf of the COP, merely SCP mentioned which is not within the law.
The other part referred to is the Certificate of Service under Mags Court Act. A copy of what sent out is retained on file with the Certicate of Service duly completed and which can be produced at Court to show that NOIP/172 served within time and date for 172.
Now having said all that just wondering if SCP have sent the Office copy and retained the orginal that should have been sent out. Unfortunately won't make any difference or provide a get out.
dvd
Why not send the NiP back completed but not signed.
No doubt they will write back telling you that it must be signed in order to be considered as meeting S172. You can then write back saying that as they did not sign the request you did not see the need to sign the reply but if, however, they would like to send you a new NiP, properly signed, you will reply accordingly. That NiP would be 'out of time, as the first one could then be deemed invalid.
Of course, you probably won't win, but it would create a little 'mischief' and cost them some time and money.
But then, you never know, they might just drop the whole thing (unlikely).
No doubt they will write back telling you that it must be signed in order to be considered as meeting S172. You can then write back saying that as they did not sign the request you did not see the need to sign the reply but if, however, they would like to send you a new NiP, properly signed, you will reply accordingly. That NiP would be 'out of time, as the first one could then be deemed invalid.
Of course, you probably won't win, but it would create a little 'mischief' and cost them some time and money.
But then, you never know, they might just drop the whole thing (unlikely).
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