Level crossing camera help.
Discussion
Now then.
My lady received a letter this morning saying she was being prosecuted for a level crossing violation and that she has to give the details of the person driving etc.
Now we remember this clearly, as it was only last Friday evening, but don't think it's at all fair. As we approached the crossing there was a van in front of us as that slowed right down while crossing (it is a very uneven "level crossing"
so we were half way across when the amber lights came on. In our eyes we were committed by then but the van was moving slow still so we would either have to stop and reverse or carry on, which we did. We were still across way before any barrier came down.
I said to my lady that we should mention the van as it would be in the actual photo. This and the fact we KNOW the crossing is there and use it almost daily shows that we weren't chancing it. She doesn't think it will help as they will just say we should only have started crossing if our exit was clear, which it would have been if the van had kept up it's original speed.
What you think?
Cheers.
Dickster.
My lady received a letter this morning saying she was being prosecuted for a level crossing violation and that she has to give the details of the person driving etc.
Now we remember this clearly, as it was only last Friday evening, but don't think it's at all fair. As we approached the crossing there was a van in front of us as that slowed right down while crossing (it is a very uneven "level crossing"
so we were half way across when the amber lights came on. In our eyes we were committed by then but the van was moving slow still so we would either have to stop and reverse or carry on, which we did. We were still across way before any barrier came down. I said to my lady that we should mention the van as it would be in the actual photo. This and the fact we KNOW the crossing is there and use it almost daily shows that we weren't chancing it. She doesn't think it will help as they will just say we should only have started crossing if our exit was clear, which it would have been if the van had kept up it's original speed.
What you think?
Cheers.
Dickster.
I've never particularly liked level crossings (or, to a lesser extent, any light-controlled feature) because of the awkward flow across them. What seems to happen is that each driver accelerates hard to get across, then almost immediately backs off with as sort of, "I've got past it, I'm alright Jack" kind of attitude.
This tends to cause a nasty case of bunching on the hazard itself. I usually wait a bit before heading off, on the basis that the driver behind might throw a road rage fit and might do some damage to me or my car, but a speeding train will terminate both car and occupants without a moment's trouble. In this case that wouldn't help though, because the van slowed down after the decision to go had been made.
The worst case is in fact the one you've outlined, where a driver near the end of the queue crawls achingly across the hazard in question, whether obliviously by accident, deliberately to be the last car across the lights, or because they've just dropped their mobile in the footwell and are trying to retrieve it. It's a real frustration, especially if five or six cars could have made it across in the time they spent dithering around.
This tends to cause a nasty case of bunching on the hazard itself. I usually wait a bit before heading off, on the basis that the driver behind might throw a road rage fit and might do some damage to me or my car, but a speeding train will terminate both car and occupants without a moment's trouble. In this case that wouldn't help though, because the van slowed down after the decision to go had been made.
The worst case is in fact the one you've outlined, where a driver near the end of the queue crawls achingly across the hazard in question, whether obliviously by accident, deliberately to be the last car across the lights, or because they've just dropped their mobile in the footwell and are trying to retrieve it. It's a real frustration, especially if five or six cars could have made it across in the time they spent dithering around.
chrisgr31 said:
Parrot of Doom said:
Is there a yellow box on the crossing? If so, then you're screwed.
Are they? the yellow box is one you must not stop in, and your exit has to be clear. They didn;t stop, and their exit was clear, just there was a slow moving vehicle between them and the exit.
I hope you missed the
as it's the slow moving vehicle in front that means the exit is not clear (i.e. there's is something between you and the exit - doh!). If a vehicle was stopped after the exit to the yellow box then I suppose you would also argue that the exit was clear, except for the stopped vehicle
I think it completely depends on the markings. Yellow box = f'd. No yellow box = started crossing when no lights, delayed by vehicle in front slowing for no visible obstruction, cleared crossing before barriers came down. Surely without a yellow box it's similar to going through an amber light - silly, but completely legal.
Usually an audible warning too, DVD, and, without being a trainspotter, some level crossings have lights on both near and far corners like traffic lights.
I think there's a good defence there provided the exit was clear and you didn't stop moving, even if there was a yellow box.
What precisely is the offence?
I think there's a good defence there provided the exit was clear and you didn't stop moving, even if there was a yellow box.
What precisely is the offence?
Thanks for these, I don't know if there is a yellow box but if there is it's very faint as I haven't noticed it at all.
We noticed the lights coming on just as we entered the crossing and by that time it was a split second decision to carry on or stop, find reverse and go backwards!
I just hate the fact that cameras have it so black and white. I have also seen these cameras flash people for setting off too early!
We noticed the lights coming on just as we entered the crossing and by that time it was a split second decision to carry on or stop, find reverse and go backwards!
I just hate the fact that cameras have it so black and white. I have also seen these cameras flash people for setting off too early!
dickster said:
Thanks for these, I don't know if there is a yellow box but if there is it's very faint as I haven't noticed it at all.
We noticed the lights coming on just as we entered the crossing and by that time it was a split second decision to carry on or stop, find reverse and go backwards!
I just hate the fact that cameras have it so black and white. I have also seen these cameras flash people for setting off too early!
We noticed the lights coming on just as we entered the crossing and by that time it was a split second decision to carry on or stop, find reverse and go backwards!
I just hate the fact that cameras have it so black and white. I have also seen these cameras flash people for setting off too early!
If what you say is true, then you should reply and give honest details of the driver. When this formality is done I would then start telling them about the details. After all, if your report is true then if you give testimony in court as you have above then there will be no evidence to disprove what you say.
Many level crossings now-a-days do not have yellow boxes, but should be treated as if they do have. I would think it a little harsh to be prosecuted under the circumstances you describe, as you had not gone through a red light, but by the same token, you shouldn't have entered the crossing if the exit was not clear. My other half works for the railways, and he reckons they are getting quite hot on crossing violations by motorists. However, he is not so clear on what action is likely to be taken as despite seeing several such violations on each shift, he has never known anything to be done about any of them. He did say though there has been talk of installing red light cameras at every crossing that he currently works.
If there is no yellow box, I suggest you quote:
HC266: Most crossings have traffic light signals with a steady amber light, twin flashing red stop lights (see Lights controlling traffic section and Warning signs section) and an audible alarm for pedestrians. They may have full, half or no barriers.
You MUST always obey the flashing red stop lights.
You MUST stop behind the white line across the road.
Keep going if you have already crossed the white line when the amber light comes on.
You MUST wait if a train goes by and the red lights continue to flash. This means another train will be passing soon.
Only cross when the lights go off and barriers open.
Never zig-zag around half-barriers, they lower automatically because a train is approaching.
At crossings where there are no barriers, a train is approaching when the lights show.
Laws RTA 1988 sect 36 & TSRGD reg 10 & 40
Streaky
HC266: Most crossings have traffic light signals with a steady amber light, twin flashing red stop lights (see Lights controlling traffic section and Warning signs section) and an audible alarm for pedestrians. They may have full, half or no barriers.
You MUST always obey the flashing red stop lights.
You MUST stop behind the white line across the road.
Keep going if you have already crossed the white line when the amber light comes on.
You MUST wait if a train goes by and the red lights continue to flash. This means another train will be passing soon.
Only cross when the lights go off and barriers open.
Never zig-zag around half-barriers, they lower automatically because a train is approaching.
At crossings where there are no barriers, a train is approaching when the lights show.
Laws RTA 1988 sect 36 & TSRGD reg 10 & 40
Streaky
Right, what type of crossing was it? Was it a CCTV monitored xing (4 barriers fully enclosed) or an auto xing (2 barriers one each side)
The CCTV xings only have cameras for the signalman to confirm the crossing is clear before clearing the signals to their proceed aspects. The CCTV cannot record and cannot be used against you in any way.
Auto crossings are different, they have small cameras monitoring xing activity and are active when the RED lights start flashing and record still frames as part of the datalogging set up we have at 99% of crossings. If you were parked on an auto xing with no exit available and the sequence had been activated you are lucky that you are not dead.
The CCTV xings only have cameras for the signalman to confirm the crossing is clear before clearing the signals to their proceed aspects. The CCTV cannot record and cannot be used against you in any way.
Auto crossings are different, they have small cameras monitoring xing activity and are active when the RED lights start flashing and record still frames as part of the datalogging set up we have at 99% of crossings. If you were parked on an auto xing with no exit available and the sequence had been activated you are lucky that you are not dead.
r5gttgaz said:
Right, what type of crossing was it? Was it a CCTV monitored xing (4 barriers fully enclosed) or an auto xing (2 barriers one each side)
The CCTV xings only have cameras for the signalman to confirm the crossing is clear before clearing the signals to their proceed aspects. The CCTV cannot record and cannot be used against you in any way.
Auto crossings are different, they have small cameras monitoring xing activity and are active when the RED lights start flashing and record still frames as part of the datalogging set up we have at 99% of crossings. If you were parked on an auto xing with no exit available and the sequence had been activated you are lucky that you are not dead.
The CCTV xings only have cameras for the signalman to confirm the crossing is clear before clearing the signals to their proceed aspects. The CCTV cannot record and cannot be used against you in any way.
Auto crossings are different, they have small cameras monitoring xing activity and are active when the RED lights start flashing and record still frames as part of the datalogging set up we have at 99% of crossings. If you were parked on an auto xing with no exit available and the sequence had been activated you are lucky that you are not dead.
Agree with some of this (principally the bit about not being dead). But not necessarily about the limited type of cameras and their use. I've seen some of the video evidence for the prosecutions that are going ahead this month in one area (nowhere near where Dickster lives). The pics I saw were proper videos clearly showing the red lights flashing, and enough of the entry to the crossing to tell whether brakelights were on, and a good chunk of exit as well. The quality was incredible (of the video, not the driving, though some of that was pretty incredible in its own special way)! If anyone was defending any of the stuff I saw, the'd need a miracle to claim that the photo evidence was unclear.
I wouldn't be surprised if the vid cameras had been put up recently at high risk crossings to back up the 'Don't run the risk' campaign.
Edited by rude girl on Friday 11th August 07:57
rude girl said:
r5gttgaz said:
Right, what type of crossing was it? Was it a CCTV monitored xing (4 barriers fully enclosed) or an auto xing (2 barriers one each side)
The CCTV xings only have cameras for the signalman to confirm the crossing is clear before clearing the signals to their proceed aspects. The CCTV cannot record and cannot be used against you in any way.
Auto crossings are different, they have small cameras monitoring xing activity and are active when the RED lights start flashing and record still frames as part of the datalogging set up we have at 99% of crossings. If you were parked on an auto xing with no exit available and the sequence had been activated you are lucky that you are not dead.
The CCTV xings only have cameras for the signalman to confirm the crossing is clear before clearing the signals to their proceed aspects. The CCTV cannot record and cannot be used against you in any way.
Auto crossings are different, they have small cameras monitoring xing activity and are active when the RED lights start flashing and record still frames as part of the datalogging set up we have at 99% of crossings. If you were parked on an auto xing with no exit available and the sequence had been activated you are lucky that you are not dead.
Agree with some of this (principally the bit about not being dead). But not necessarily about the limited type of cameras and their use. I've seen some of the video evidence for the prosecutions that are going ahead this month in one area (nowhere near where Dickster lives). The pics I saw were proper videos clearly showing the red lights flashing, and enough of the entry to the crossing to tell whether brakelights were on, and a good chunk of exit as well. The quality was incredible (of the video, not the driving, though some of that was pretty incredible in its own special way)! If anyone was defending any of the stuff I saw, the'd need a miracle to claim that the photo evidence was unclear.
I wouldn't be surprised if the vid cameras had been put up recently at high risk crossings to back up the 'Don't run the risk' campaign.
Edited by rude girl on Friday 11th August 07:57
The cameras that bolt to wig wag light posts? I was unsure of the video capability, we never seem to use that we just get stills.
r5gttgaz said:
The cameras that bolt to wig wag light posts?
Dunno really - it's not my field, I just happened to be there for something else when it was going on. Only saw the camera itself for one of the violation videos - it was mashed on the floor in some stills after the car didn't quite make it across before the train. That camera was on a proper dedicated steel post.
r5gttgaz said:
I was unsure of the video capability, we never seem to use that we just get stills.
Possibly don't have too many high risk crossings there? I'll be back in York in a couple of weeks - if I remember, I'll ask and mail you.
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