Is a twenty mph limit legally enforceable?
Discussion
This is in Scotland, if that makes a difference. Our estate has recently been designated a twenty area, probably because of the two primary schools contained within it. I quite enjoy ambling up and down the main routes in it at 20 in third, but everytime I do, I attract the dreaded tailgater, usually elderly people in Micras and Yarises, or yummy mummys in large safe child transport vehicles, dropping off offspring at aforementioned schools. Some have even overtaken in a cloud of indignation, bouncing over speed humps and swooping around chichanes, blasting horns and exercising wrists in a peculiar fashion.
Me, I'm never in that much of a hurry when I'm in my neighbourhood. Every house on the main road through our estate has a driveway, and the main route has numerous cul-de-sacs to either side. It could be described as a fish spine in a large loop. Not a place to speed.
Either I'm underreading, or the locals are not too keen on the new speed limit.
Anyone know if twenty is enforceable by the police, or is it a council thing? Thanks for any insights.
Me, I'm never in that much of a hurry when I'm in my neighbourhood. Every house on the main road through our estate has a driveway, and the main route has numerous cul-de-sacs to either side. It could be described as a fish spine in a large loop. Not a place to speed.
Either I'm underreading, or the locals are not too keen on the new speed limit.
Anyone know if twenty is enforceable by the police, or is it a council thing? Thanks for any insights.
if it is the number in black in a red circle, then it is legally enforceable, the 30 mph limit in town areas is upto, you don't need to travel at 30 mph all the time.
if unsure, visit your local plod station, assuming that it opens during the weekends or evenings as mine only opens during office hours and find the local plod website to be much more help
if unsure, visit your local plod station, assuming that it opens during the weekends or evenings as mine only opens during office hours and find the local plod website to be much more help
Scraggles said:
if it is the number in black in a red circle, then it is legally enforceable, the 30 mph limit in town areas is upto, you don't need to travel at 30 mph all the time.
if unsure, visit your local plod station, assuming that it opens during the weekends or evenings as mine only opens during office hours and find the local plod website to be much more help
if unsure, visit your local plod station, assuming that it opens during the weekends or evenings as mine only opens during office hours and find the local plod website to be much more help
Number is as you describe, as is local police station.
black in red circle is legally enforceable (but only if a Traffic Regulation Order has also been properly made for 20 mph - it is the Order that is enforceable, and the black/red sign can only be put up to give effect to a legal order.
Black in a green circle, like the "Twenty's Plenty" signs they are throwing up in Lanarkshire and the Lothians at the moment, are advisory only and not enforceable as a speeding offence per se. If you can be shown to have been going faster, and something happens, then the fact that you were exceeding an advisory speed limit may have a bearing on any subsequent evidence for a charge of Careless Driving or such like.
Black in a green circle, like the "Twenty's Plenty" signs they are throwing up in Lanarkshire and the Lothians at the moment, are advisory only and not enforceable as a speeding offence per se. If you can be shown to have been going faster, and something happens, then the fact that you were exceeding an advisory speed limit may have a bearing on any subsequent evidence for a charge of Careless Driving or such like.
7db said:
That's a 20 zone. It's different from a 20 limit.
The difference being between a political bunfight over whether the LA can put one there without HA interference...
The difference being between a political bunfight over whether the LA can put one there without HA interference...
Correct.
Although I am not sure that the LA still need HA approval for a 20 limit. I know that at one time all limits below 30 needed site-specific HA approval, but I thought that requirement was removed under more recent legislation (last 4/5 years maybe?). I might be wrong about that though.
boosted ls1 said:
7db said:
That's a 20 zone. It's different from a 20 limit.
The difference being between a political bunfight over whether the LA can put one there without HA interference...
The difference being between a political bunfight over whether the LA can put one there without HA interference...
How can you tell which is which if they all have a 20 mph sign with a red border?
Boosted.
Read my first post - "limit" has red border, "zone" has green border
tvrgit said:
boosted ls1 said:
7db said:
That's a 20 zone. It's different from a 20 limit.
The difference being between a political bunfight over whether the LA can put one there without HA interference...
The difference being between a political bunfight over whether the LA can put one there without HA interference...
How can you tell which is which if they all have a 20 mph sign with a red border?
Boosted.
Read my first post - "limit" has red border, "zone" has green border
Oops, I missed that. Ionly see the red borders around here but I have read on PH that even these may not be legal unless there are humps in the road. Portsmouth rings a bell.
Boosted.
I had a closer look at the signage. Entering it, it has a black 20 with a red circle with twenty zone written underneath. The other side has a grey thirty with leaving 20 zone written on it I think. There are speed bumps every few hundred yards, and twenty numbers painted on the roads.
tvrgit said:
well it looks as though it is legally enforceable - but it might not be if there is no TRO (in which case the signs are wrong but that wouldn't be a first)
Well I'll just stick to my twenty max then, and let the impatients get on with it. Could be fun if a jam sandwich turns up one morning
Shouldn't make any difference. Most (not all) older speedos work by whirling a disc around and magnetic eddy currents cause the needle to fight a spring. Spring resistance is linear until you over stretch the spring. Modern ones are generally a pulse counter so they should be linear too.
Bit of an old thread though...
Bit of an old thread though...
May have changed recently but certainly up to a year or two ago there wasnt any speed detection equipment that was certified to operate below 30mph which is why all 20s needed to be self enforcing through physical means as the police couldnt and wouldnt enforce.
More recently councils have just been introducing the speed limits without traffic calming on the back of some trials in Portsmouth and been skewing the results ever since to justify the spend.
More recently councils have just been introducing the speed limits without traffic calming on the back of some trials in Portsmouth and been skewing the results ever since to justify the spend.
Aeroresh said:
..........More recently councils have just been introducing the speed limits without traffic calming on the back of some trials in Portsmouth and been skewing the results ever since to justify the spend.
I'm pretty certain that the regulations on requiring traffic calming prior to a 20 mph limit/zone were abolished some time ago (probably shortly after this thread was started!)Gassing Station | Speed, Plod & the Law | Top of Page | What's New | My Stuff