URGENT help... car repossed for unpaid finance
Discussion
Hi, I would be grateful for any advice anyone can give to the following...
In a nut shell...I had a phone call this morning from a friend of mine who said that at 7am two men (working on behalf of a finance company) knocked on his door and repossed his car due to outstanding finance from the previous owner...
Bit of background history...
Friend bought the car in April this year from a private seller (Miss A), he did a HPI check that came back saying there was outstanding finance on the car. So he phoned the finance company and was told that the finance had been cleared in full by credit card by Miss A's boyfriend Mr B a couple of months prior.
All good he thought and went ahead and bought the car with cash, only getting a hand written receipt off Miss A (the reciept says all finance had been cleared...which was true at the time)
Now it turns out that about 6 weeks after my friend paid for the car Mr B phoned his credit card company and said he did not recognise the payment and said it was fraud...
Credit card company takes X amount back from finance company and finance company take car back off my friend.
So now my friend is without a car and out of pocket as he paid for it with cash.
What can he do?
Thanks
In a nut shell...I had a phone call this morning from a friend of mine who said that at 7am two men (working on behalf of a finance company) knocked on his door and repossed his car due to outstanding finance from the previous owner...
Bit of background history...
Friend bought the car in April this year from a private seller (Miss A), he did a HPI check that came back saying there was outstanding finance on the car. So he phoned the finance company and was told that the finance had been cleared in full by credit card by Miss A's boyfriend Mr B a couple of months prior.
All good he thought and went ahead and bought the car with cash, only getting a hand written receipt off Miss A (the reciept says all finance had been cleared...which was true at the time)
Now it turns out that about 6 weeks after my friend paid for the car Mr B phoned his credit card company and said he did not recognise the payment and said it was fraud...
Credit card company takes X amount back from finance company and finance company take car back off my friend.
So now my friend is without a car and out of pocket as he paid for it with cash.
What can he do?
Thanks
Edited by Rochester TVR on Monday 21st September 13:07
1. Write to finance company and request the tape of the car wherein they advised it was paid in full.
If necessary, use S7 of the Data Protection Act.
I assume your friend did not make any form of telephone note nor recorded it, nor sought confirmation in writing from the finance company that the car was clear.
Did the finance company not send him any letters before arriving to collect the car?
2. The seller is also liable given you were provided with a receipt which stated paid in full.
This could also be held to be fraud by the seller and her boyfriend, especially if he stated to his credit card company he knew nothing of the finance of the car.......
I'd get the police on it, along with writing to the Finance Company and the Vendor.
If necessary, use S7 of the Data Protection Act.
I assume your friend did not make any form of telephone note nor recorded it, nor sought confirmation in writing from the finance company that the car was clear.
Did the finance company not send him any letters before arriving to collect the car?
2. The seller is also liable given you were provided with a receipt which stated paid in full.
This could also be held to be fraud by the seller and her boyfriend, especially if he stated to his credit card company he knew nothing of the finance of the car.......
I'd get the police on it, along with writing to the Finance Company and the Vendor.
Jasandjules said:
I assume your friend did not make any form of telephone note nor recorded it, nor sought confirmation in writing from the finance company that the car was clear.
No... written confirmation of cleared finance at all... Jasandjules said:
Did the finance company not send him any letters before arriving to collect the car?
No letters, no phones calls... nothing.Jasandjules said:
2. The seller is also liable given you were provided with a receipt which stated paid in full.
This could also be held to be fraud by the seller and her boyfriend, especially if he stated to his credit card company he knew nothing of the finance of the car.......
I'd get the police on it, along with writing to the Finance Company and the Vendor.
My thoughts exactly... I think he has been the subject to a well thought out and planned scam...This could also be held to be fraud by the seller and her boyfriend, especially if he stated to his credit card company he knew nothing of the finance of the car.......
I'd get the police on it, along with writing to the Finance Company and the Vendor.
He is on his way now to see a solisitor, so i'll come back with any updates.
Thanks
Deffo solicitor ASAP.
I had a similar issue a long time ago, but "my" car was purchased from a garage.
The finance company don't need to tell you anything in advance, as it is not your car (or your mate's in this case) and never was - it belongs to them.
In my case the person who has defaulted on the finance only lived a mile away from where I kept the car - therefore the repo crew were cruising round, saw the car, and took it, using their copy of the key (not sure if that is a standard thing).
It's the same as you having your car nicked, and still walking round with the key in your pocket, seeing the car parked up and saying "I'll have that back", getting in and driving away.
It'll turn into a case of "he said, she said"..
I wish your friend good luck!
Steve
I had a similar issue a long time ago, but "my" car was purchased from a garage.
The finance company don't need to tell you anything in advance, as it is not your car (or your mate's in this case) and never was - it belongs to them.
In my case the person who has defaulted on the finance only lived a mile away from where I kept the car - therefore the repo crew were cruising round, saw the car, and took it, using their copy of the key (not sure if that is a standard thing).
It's the same as you having your car nicked, and still walking round with the key in your pocket, seeing the car parked up and saying "I'll have that back", getting in and driving away.
It'll turn into a case of "he said, she said"..
I wish your friend good luck!
Steve
bleesh said:
Deffo solicitor ASAP.
I had a similar issue a long time ago, but "my" car was purchased from a garage.
The finance company don't need to tell you anything in advance, as it is not your car (or your mate's in this case) and never was - it belongs to them.
In my case the person who has defaulted on the finance only lived a mile away from where I kept the car - therefore the repo crew were cruising round, saw the car, and took it, using their copy of the key (not sure if that is a standard thing).
It's the same as you having your car nicked, and still walking round with the key in your pocket, seeing the car parked up and saying "I'll have that back", getting in and driving away.
It'll turn into a case of "he said, she said"..
I wish your friend good luck!
Steve
The car does not "belong to them" if there is a finance agreement in place; it is subject to a charge upon it, which is not the same thing at all.I had a similar issue a long time ago, but "my" car was purchased from a garage.
The finance company don't need to tell you anything in advance, as it is not your car (or your mate's in this case) and never was - it belongs to them.
In my case the person who has defaulted on the finance only lived a mile away from where I kept the car - therefore the repo crew were cruising round, saw the car, and took it, using their copy of the key (not sure if that is a standard thing).
It's the same as you having your car nicked, and still walking round with the key in your pocket, seeing the car parked up and saying "I'll have that back", getting in and driving away.
It'll turn into a case of "he said, she said"..
I wish your friend good luck!
Steve
This is an interesting situation. The chargeback rules for Visa (I'm not sure about other credit cards) give 120 days for chargebacks. The 2 months + 6 weeks timescales provided by the OP suggest the vendor may have known about this...
On a substantive note, there is a very interesting question: when is finance "settled" if paid by credit card. Is it when the finance company says that it is settled? If so then IMHO the OP has a strong case for reinstatement (plus damages for loss of use of the car), particularly if the finance company does in fact record telephone calls. So job one for the OP should be to contact the finance company as others have suggested to get a copy of the tape. If, on the other hand, it is when the transfer of funds is irrevocable then that seems to be open to challenge in the courts on the grounds of unreasonableness.
IMHO the finance company has a complaint of fraud available to them against the vendor (although, of course, the BF issue complicates matters), or at least a civil claim for the residual monies. But it seems a stretch for the finance company to be able to claim - on the evidence provided - that the car should be theirs to dispose of.
I suspect a sharply-worded solicitors' letter might get things resolved here. Either way, however, I hope the OP keeps us in the loop as to how this one plays out. If the legal position is as the finance company suggests it is then all of us should be getting written proof of finance settled, even if HPI shows it as settled!
Long time since I studied this but. The consumer credit act included an old bit of law that said if you purchased it as a private individual in good faith you got clean title. Tell the finance company to put it back on your mates drive PDQ or he will take them for compensation as well as the car back.
Mr Tea said:
Would your friend not be a bona fide purchaser for value and therefore take the asset free of any lien/charge, or does that bit of equity only apply to houses/land etc?
Sounds like a real boner - how did the finance co. know where to go and recover the vehicle?
Yes I think that's Land only. Nemo Dat tends to apply to financial transactions IIRC. Therefore, the seller had no legal title to pass on the car. Sounds like a real boner - how did the finance co. know where to go and recover the vehicle?
Syd knee said:
appart from the fact that the Finance Houses Association were unwilling to fund the equivilent of the Land registry and so the HP act said a genuine private purchaser was exempt.
You could well be right. I am going from a Banking law point of view in the main. If you have the relevant section of the Act then the OP might want to be pointing this out to the finance company who otherwise would appear to have stolen his car.......
Gassing Station | Speed, Plod & the Law | Top of Page | What's New | My Stuff