Red X Over Only Lane

[blank]

Just went under a red X in the LH lane here:

https://maps.app.goo.gl/JVLqaRaKwsNo3s1w9?g_st=ac

The RH lane had a speed limit showing so was open, but not possible to join it without crossing the solid lines / chevrons.

I guess technically the only legal thing to do would be to stop and sit there until it changed?

The lane had been closed earlier on (with a red X) but the obstruction was a fair way back so there was room for the traffic to get back into the lane once past, although I guess technically not legal as the last gantry over the lane (before the obstruction) would have shown a red X.

Would it also be an offence to have used the RH lane (from further back) and then immediately moved to the "closed" lane after the gantry for the roundabout?

Seems a bit odd to have a gantry that close to a roundabout which then has a load of other roads coming off it.

Interesting to see if I get a special letter...

[Patio]

Fingers crossed for you not hearing anything

Knowing the UK current obsession with fining everyone for anything I can understand you concern

[paul_c123]

blank said:

Would it also be an offence to have used the RH lane (from further back) and then immediately moved to the "closed" lane after the gantry for the roundabout?

I am surprised you have to ask.......

[MustangGT]

I assume you mean lane 1 of 5? Probably 4 at the previous signage. By RH lane I assume you mean lane 2 of 5?

If so, there would have been multiple arrow signs warning of the lane closure ahead, you should have moved across at that time.

Crossing the solid white line likely would have been the better choice if you had ignored all the other warning signs.

[KTMsm]

I'd have crossed the chevrons

On the basis I'd rather explain that to a Court than why I ignored a red X

[blank]

paul_c123 said:

blank said:

Would it also be an offence to have used the RH lane (from further back) and then immediately moved to the "closed" lane after the gantry for the roundabout?

I am surprised you have to ask.......

So with it being the final gantry before a roundabout, where do the lanes open up? Only one lane out of three approaching the roundabout and then carry on as normal?

[blank]

MustangGT said:

I assume you mean lane 1 of 5? Probably 4 at the previous signage. By RH lane I assume you mean lane 2 of 5?

If so, there would have been multiple arrow signs warning of the lane closure ahead, you should have moved across at that time.

Crossing the solid white line likely would have been the better choice if you had ignored all the other warning signs.

Thought I'd explained it above but maybe not...

Main M1 going north has 5 lanes, but lane 1 comes off to J13. Lanes 2-5 carry one (becoming 1-4) with the first lane having a slip road for J13 as well. Assuming the street view link works, these make the 2 lanes for J13, which then become 3 lanes for the roundabout.

There was an obstruction further back in the dedicated J13 lane which I (and others) had passed in the adjacent lane before moving into the dedicated lane to leave at J13.

[Super Sonic]

blank said:

Thought I'd explained it above but maybe not...

Main M1 going north has 5 lanes, but lane 1 comes off to J13. Lanes 2-5 carry one (becoming 1-4) with the first lane having a slip road for J13 as well. Assuming the street view link works, these make the 2 lanes for J13, which then become 3 lanes for the roundabout.

There was an obstruction further back in the dedicated J13 lane which I (and others) had passed in the adjacent lane before moving into the dedicated lane to leave at J13.

So out of the original five lanes, lanes one and two both come off at j13?

[blank]

Super Sonic said:

blank said:

Thought I'd explained it above but maybe not...

Main M1 going north has 5 lanes, but lane 1 comes off to J13. Lanes 2-5 carry one (becoming 1-4) with the first lane having a slip road for J13 as well. Assuming the street view link works, these make the 2 lanes for J13, which then become 3 lanes for the roundabout.

There was an obstruction further back in the dedicated J13 lane which I (and others) had passed in the adjacent lane before moving into the dedicated lane to leave at J13.

So out of the original five lanes, lanes one and two both come off at j13?

Yeah. Lane 1 is J13 only and becomes the LH lane in the link. Lane 2 then has a slip road that becomes the RH lane in the pic.

The correct route would have been to use lane 2 and the slip road to be in the RH lane for the point in the link, but then I guess there is technically no route to lanes 1 or 2 for the roundabout (I needed lane 1) other than a lap of the roundabout as the lane that feeds them was closed.

[Pica-Pica]

KTMsm said:

I'd have crossed the chevrons

On the basis I'd rather explain that to a Court than why I ignored a red X

This. I assume there was an early indication of the closed lane (arrows).

[AndrewT1275]

Pica-Pica said:

KTMsm said:

I'd have crossed the chevrons

On the basis I'd rather explain that to a Court than why I ignored a red X

This. I assume there was an early indication of the closed lane (arrows).

That's where the OP messed up based on what he wrote.

The lane was closed off with red Xs on previous gantries. He then drove past what he assumed to be the only obstruction closing the lane, and then moved back into the closed lane before passing any gantries indicating that it was in fact open again. When he reached the next gantry it was still showing the lane as closed.

So the OP did commit an offence by returning to a closed lane. The presence or otherwise of chevrons later on is irrelevant.

[Griffith4ever]

Pica-Pica said:

KTMsm said:

I'd have crossed the chevrons

On the basis I'd rather explain that to a Court than why I ignored a red X

This. I assume there was an early indication of the closed lane (arrows).

The highway code is very specific about the solid white lines, " MUST NOT enter it except in an emergency." - so you'd need to decide if it was "an emergency" - personally - I'd say , yes, it was, as proceeding into a closed lane would be more dangerous.

[blank]

AndrewT1275 said:

Pica-Pica said:

KTMsm said:

I'd have crossed the chevrons

On the basis I'd rather explain that to a Court than why I ignored a red X

This. I assume there was an early indication of the closed lane (arrows).

That's where the OP messed up based on what he wrote.

The lane was closed off with red Xs on previous gantries. He then drove past what he assumed to be the only obstruction closing the lane, and then moved back into the closed lane before passing any gantries indicating that it was in fact open again. When he reached the next gantry it was still showing the lane as closed.

So the OP did commit an offence by returning to a closed lane. The presence or otherwise of chevrons later on is irrelevant.

Yes, this is what happened.

What I'm curious about is if there was any legal way to get in the lane I wanted, as there was never anything re opening the lane before it reached the roundabout. E.g. if I had stayed in the RH lane and therefore not gone under the X, I would have commited the same offence if I'd have gone into lane 1 or 2 for the roundabout.

I think they were just red X markings as well. Without the flashing red lights. Not sure if they're technically any different.

[Sebring440]

blank said:

I think they were just red X markings as well. Without the flashing red lights. Not sure if they're technically any different.

You're not going to get out of it.

[blank]

Sebring440 said:

blank said:

I think they were just red X markings as well. Without the flashing red lights. Not sure if they're technically any different.

You're not going to get out of it.

I'm not trying to get out of anything (don't even know if there's anything TO get out of yet), just curious. Mostly on the legal way to proceed from the RH lane in the link as technically lanes 1 and 2 are closed and never re open. Although common sense suggests once on the roundabout all is normal again as you could have approached from another direction.

[paul_c123]

Griffith4ever said:

The highway code is very specific about the solid white lines, " MUST NOT enter it except in an emergency." - so you'd need to decide if it was "an emergency" - personally - I'd say , yes, it was, as proceeding into a closed lane would be more dangerous.

If a junction is closed you need to stay on the motorway, you can't go over solid white lines to exit. It is not an emergency situation (unless it is, ie breakdown etc). IMHO that's why the gantry is so close to the junction too - so they can effectively close the junction with the red Xs unambiguously.

[SydneyBridge]

I would say the Red X overpowers the chevrons etc, so move over

[AndrewT1275]

blank said:

Yes, this is what happened.

What I'm curious about is if there was any legal way to get in the lane I wanted, as there was never anything re opening the lane before it reached the roundabout. E.g. if I had stayed in the RH lane and therefore not gone under the X, I would have commited the same offence if I'd have gone into lane 1 or 2 for the roundabout.

I think they were just red X markings as well. Without the flashing red lights. Not sure if they're technically any different.

Once you are past that final gantry and halfway up the slip road you would be fine to move across to the left lane for the roundabout.

I know that technically the slip is part of the motorway but there is no way you'd be prosecuted for that. If you were then you would hope that an appeal would be successful.

(Edit: every day is a school day, having looked at the legislation properly it appears as though the slip road is not part of the motorway so once on it I guess the lane closure signs are no longer valid)

The problem is actually the signage. That gantry should be showing the lane open but I guess it's just an application of a policy that says something like 'Always show the lane as still closed at the first gantry after the incident and only show it as open at the gantry after that'. In this instance common sense says that as the motorway ends at that point it should show the lane as open.

However in your case even if that gantry had shown the lane as open you would still have committed an offence as you entered the lane before that gantry.

Edited by AndrewT1275 on Thursday 31st July 13:33

[blank]

paul_c123 said:

Griffith4ever said:

The highway code is very specific about the solid white lines, " MUST NOT enter it except in an emergency." - so you'd need to decide if it was "an emergency" - personally - I'd say , yes, it was, as proceeding into a closed lane would be more dangerous.

If a junction is closed you need to stay on the motorway, you can't go over solid white lines to exit. It is not an emergency situation (unless it is, ie breakdown etc). IMHO that's why the gantry is so close to the junction too - so they can effectively close the junction with the red Xs unambiguously.

Yep but in this case the junction was not closed, just one of the two lanes for the junction which were separated by chevrons (becoming 2 of the 3 lanes once they rejoin with normal dashed lines). The other lane had a 40 limit above it.

[Durzel]

A camera likely wouldn't penalise you for crossing chevrons, whereas it most certainly would if it's set up to trigger on vehicles in closed lanes, which I presume they all are.