Insurance woes....
Discussion
Good morning PH collective!
Some may know that last week one of my vehicles was t-boned at a junction.
Liability has been determined by the insurance company and all are in agreement that the other party was at fault (simple case of someone pulling out of a junction from stationary into my vehicle which was doing ~20mph at the time).
The insurance company has given me a settlement figure to take the vehicle back from their bodyshop unrepaired as doors are no longer available from the manufacturer.
The damage amounts to a front wing, two doors, plastic mouldings that run underneath, a wheel, steering gubbins and indicators. The parts cost for the panels alone from the manufacturer (including back-ordered doors) is equal to the insurance company's settlement figure (which is around a third of the vehicles market value).
They've been really pushing for me to take back the vehicle, accept the settlement and have it repaired myself - due to the door situation. I've been refusing as I really don't want to have a totalled, undriveable vehicle sat outside my house for months on end while I try to find someone willing to take on the repairs.
The latest from the insurance company (today's mini-update) is that the 'engineers' are refusing to write off the vehicle.
What they will do, which is probably their latest tactic to make me just accept the settlement offer is repair the door when it comes back off back-order. The manufacturer says this is unlikely to ever happen and the insurance company is quoting a repair time of at least one year!
They're also demanding the hire car back (I'll have to read the terms of my hire car agreement with them) immediately as I either need to agree to the settlement, or wait without vehicle for a year for it to be repaired.
Do I have a leg to stand on?
Some may know that last week one of my vehicles was t-boned at a junction.
Liability has been determined by the insurance company and all are in agreement that the other party was at fault (simple case of someone pulling out of a junction from stationary into my vehicle which was doing ~20mph at the time).
The insurance company has given me a settlement figure to take the vehicle back from their bodyshop unrepaired as doors are no longer available from the manufacturer.
The damage amounts to a front wing, two doors, plastic mouldings that run underneath, a wheel, steering gubbins and indicators. The parts cost for the panels alone from the manufacturer (including back-ordered doors) is equal to the insurance company's settlement figure (which is around a third of the vehicles market value).
They've been really pushing for me to take back the vehicle, accept the settlement and have it repaired myself - due to the door situation. I've been refusing as I really don't want to have a totalled, undriveable vehicle sat outside my house for months on end while I try to find someone willing to take on the repairs.
The latest from the insurance company (today's mini-update) is that the 'engineers' are refusing to write off the vehicle.
What they will do, which is probably their latest tactic to make me just accept the settlement offer is repair the door when it comes back off back-order. The manufacturer says this is unlikely to ever happen and the insurance company is quoting a repair time of at least one year!
They're also demanding the hire car back (I'll have to read the terms of my hire car agreement with them) immediately as I either need to agree to the settlement, or wait without vehicle for a year for it to be repaired.
Do I have a leg to stand on?
AndyNetwork said:
...including hire car charges until the return of your vehicle.
Having just read through the relevant section and exclusions in my insurance policy documents, they state:Insurance said:
...you will get FREE use of a courtesy car whilst your car is being repaired ... Courtesy cars are not provided if your car has been stolen, is beyond economic repair, if you choose a repairer not on our approved repairer panel, your own car was originally produced for sale outside the EC, or is a classic car or camper van.
... Which sounds pretty straightforward.
AndyNetwork said:
Are you sure that they are not writing off the car, and offering you a market value payout minus scrap value for your vehicle, for you to dispose of? (I have had this done in the past, a long, long time ago - car was rear ended, but drivable. Their assessor came to my home, and wrote it off. They didn't want to take posession of the car, so knocked £200 off the pay out, and told me to sell it for scrap/parts/repair.)
They are refusing to write off the car (they deem it to be repairable by myself) and the settlement figure they're offering is around a third of the vehicles market value.marshalla said:
And your or your repairer's estimate differs by how much ?
My insurance company is arguing that the settlement figure is what they'd pay to have it repaired at their garage. The quote for me to repair it is equal to the settlement figure in parts alone - it doesn't include labour or paint, nor any of the other parts that would no doubt be needed to fix it.
marshalla said:
Who provided the quote ? Is it just the figure your insurance co. are giving you, or have you actually costed up parts & time so you can provide the insurer with a proper figure and negotiate properly ?
The insurance company quote is from the authorised repairer that the vehicle is in at the moment (who are refusing to do the repairs)My quote is directly from the manufacturers parts department, and doesn't include labour.
LoonR1 said:
Sorry but I call bull on this. The insurer will either repair it or write it off if they can't source parts.
It is that simple. Are you complicating matters by demanding it is repaired? If so they are well within their rights to take you out of hire. A like for like hire car is not a courtesy car btw.
I've been asking them to write it off as they've been saying that 'while the vehicle isn't unrepairable, we can't get the parts to do so'.It is that simple. Are you complicating matters by demanding it is repaired? If so they are well within their rights to take you out of hire. A like for like hire car is not a courtesy car btw.
Noger said:
"Consumers sometimes refuse to allow their vehicle to be repaired. Where we do not agree with a consumer in these circumstances, we usually say that:
the consumer can retain the vehicle; and
the insurer should pay the consumer only the amount that the approved repairers have said the repairs would cost".
Which is exactly what they are doing.
It's the insurance company that has been refusing to repair the vehicle.the consumer can retain the vehicle; and
the insurer should pay the consumer only the amount that the approved repairers have said the repairs would cost".
Which is exactly what they are doing.
In regards to my repairer of choice - I don't have one, and haven't looked for one. I don't have a guy that I can just take the car to and say 'fix it and send me/[insurance co] the bill'.
I was quite happy for the insurers approved repairer to have it sorted (which is where the vehicle is now) until they said they can't do so as a result of the door issue.
In short, the insurance company is stating either:
- take the settlement figure (1/3 of vehicles market value) and vehicle. Have it repaired yourself.
- leave the vehicle with the insurance approved garage for a year (or until a new door is available).
Du1point8 said:
get them to get you a loan car in the meantime whilst they fix this.
Your insurance may not have it included, but that really doesnt matter when its not your fault, therefore the other insurer pays so you are not inconvenienced (yes I know they are one and the same).
I've got a loan car at the moment which they're demanding back. It's not a like-for-like (~250bhp less), but the cheapest they could get and fine for tooling around in.Your insurance may not have it included, but that really doesnt matter when its not your fault, therefore the other insurer pays so you are not inconvenienced (yes I know they are one and the same).
I agree that the whole issue is pretty odd. Being the innocent party in the accident I simply want the insurance company to put me back into a similar position to the one I was last week - either with my vehicle, or the market value required to purchase another. They're aware of this and say they can't do either, with the best option being the car and the settlement.
The whole issue with the repair is the insurance company's decision not to undergo it due to the unavailability (for the foreseen future) of the door. The approved repairer refuses to fit second hand parts (which is understandable due to them being an unknown quantity and the repercussions thereof).
It's the insurance company that is suggesting (and has done from the beginning) that I surf off to German eBay or similar and conduct all of the repairs myself - which I think is unreasonable to expect me to do!.
The vehicle is both reasonably rare (~20 in the UK) and an import from the Continent, although most body panels (doors included) are shared with a common LHD model.
-edit- I should add that after phoning the insurance company yesterday both to lodge a formal complaint and to state my position, they've done a U-turn regarding the hire car and I can keep it until further notice...
The whole issue with the repair is the insurance company's decision not to undergo it due to the unavailability (for the foreseen future) of the door. The approved repairer refuses to fit second hand parts (which is understandable due to them being an unknown quantity and the repercussions thereof).
It's the insurance company that is suggesting (and has done from the beginning) that I surf off to German eBay or similar and conduct all of the repairs myself - which I think is unreasonable to expect me to do!.
The vehicle is both reasonably rare (~20 in the UK) and an import from the Continent, although most body panels (doors included) are shared with a common LHD model.
-edit- I should add that after phoning the insurance company yesterday both to lodge a formal complaint and to state my position, they've done a U-turn regarding the hire car and I can keep it until further notice...
LoonR1 said:
Are you going to answer the questions that I asked earlier? By ignoring them it makes me think there is more to this than you're prepared to disclose, which will have a material effect on the situation we're trying to help you with.
LoonR1 said:
I'm baffled. Have I got this right? The car needs new doors, these doors are no longer manufactured? Or are they on back order? Is this a classic car or a modern but obsolete vehicle?
The doors are no longer manufactured. There's a waiting list for them and the manufacturer is unsure if they'll ever make any more. That's all I know.LoonR1 said:
My repair centres can fix pretty well anything so they must be a right mess. If so can you source any used but serviceable doors?
The outer door skins are pushed in from the collision, and it's warped the outer frame of the door in the process, so are U/S. The B&C pillars are fine.LoonR1 said:
Do you want the car back or do you want it written off?
I'd prefer it to be written off.LoonR1 said:
I know the insurer is the same company on both sides which is actually irrelevant but are you dealing with your insured policy or trying to fix it with the TPs policy?
I'm dealing with my insured policy.
LoonR1 said:
Why solicitors? What do you think they can do? A simple complaint to YOUR insurers should suffice ie not trying to resolve this with the other side. Your insurers will resolve this exactly as I have outlined above a few times.
I made a formal complaint to my insurance company on Friday. It was followed up this morning with the above conversation, saying that they couldn't do anything else. I notified the FO this morning who are going to look into it, but say it may take quite a while to resolve.In the mean time, can the insurance company (legally) take away the hire car and dump the damaged car outside my house? Having just moved house (the day after the accident!), I'm not sure if the new neighbours will appreciate it...
LoonR1 said:
Yes they can on both counts, whether they would is debatable though.
I think there is more th this story than you're letting on. Are you claiming off your policy or the other sides? Forget the fact that you are both insured with the same insurer as that is irrelevant.
There really isn't any more detail I can add. This is how it is! I think there is more th this story than you're letting on. Are you claiming off your policy or the other sides? Forget the fact that you are both insured with the same insurer as that is irrelevant.
I'm not sure whether I'm claiming off my insurance or the other party's - I assumed it was theirs as I don't have to pay an excess and I wasn't deemed to be at fault.
LoonR1 said:
Are you in discussions with your insurer or theirs?
Put simply there is no way your insurers will be doing what your claiming they're doing.
It's my insurer. The guy I've been speaking to states that I'm claiming off their policy, although wouldn't say whether both the other party and me and the same contact at the insurance company.Put simply there is no way your insurers will be doing what your claiming they're doing.
As for 'there's no way ... etc', it actually is what they're doing. As far as I can see, and unless I find anything to the contrary, it seems they can do what they like!
It's not really that ambiguous. It's my insurance guy. We're claiming off their insurance (same company). The complaints guy is as far as I know a universal complaints chap at the company and I don't really see how any of it is relevant to the decision that they've made.
It all seems like a waste of time. I might just fork out for a new car and let the Ombudsman deal with it.
It all seems like a waste of time. I might just fork out for a new car and let the Ombudsman deal with it.
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