S3 lotus esprit off eBay. What could go wrong. Read on.

[flyinyam]

First off all apologies, this is 5 minutes of your life you will not get back!

Was bidding on this car



Got outbid !

Anyhow guy sends me message 2 days later saying ' original purchaser was going on holiday for 3 weeks, and seller wasn't prepared to wait

I could have car, rang the guy (##classics), and we have a conversation about the car.me asking various questions.

He tells me car is

His answer (truth)

1 owner (yes 1 in Ireland plus 3 in England)
Car has full service history (1 mot from 2011 and £500 of bills)
Car has a couple of stone chips on bumpers ( quite a few cracks in paint/gelcoat, not too bad)
Car is up and running and drives perfect however would need a service as it's been in storage (car will not start as various wires leads off engine, so engine state unknown!).
Tells me he has hpi report from when he bought it in 2012. He drove it home, put it in his unit and it's only been used very occasionally.
Interior could do with a good clean due to sitting. ( a lot of interior parts glove box, carpets, handbrake gator etc are damaged)
2 keys

I ask 'as I'm buying the car off his description is there any other damage or faults at all? He replies 'none, the car is 100%'.

All the conversation was carried out very confidently and (sounded) truthfully. Guy is an older chap, sounded very honest(!!!!!)

As car is 300 miles away agreed price of £9,300.

As I'd have to get the car collected he assured me 'if I'm not totally happy with car then he would take the car back no problem at all.'

My transporter collects car, owners son does handover, doesn't want car driven on to lorry, wants it winched on, says doesn't want any damage to car during loading! Car has no battery fitted either, took off while in storage! Shows transporter driver car turning over via jump leads.
I speak to son, again he says 'if you're not happy with the car or have any problems just give me a call, you can have refund, no problem as I can sell the car again tomorrow '
I didn't want to leave car as I had paid for it(in good faith), and i didn't want to leave my money AND car.

Fast forward to car arriving at me home. . .
Soon as the lorry came down the drive I knew things were bad. .

Get car off lorry by pushing it, notice it's nothing like what I was told,I ring the seller and he says 'have a proper look round it, then give me a ring if you're not happy then you can bring it back.'

As lorry didn't arrive till 9.15 at night ileft it till morning to get a proper look.

First major problem is the lift out glass sunroof is missing. . . Been replaced with a cut piece of glass bonded to roof! Probably £500 to replace, if you can find one!!

Pulled carpet away from drivers A post bottom due to 'odd looking lump to find a crumbling A pillar base
On investigatingno start found various leads and wires dangling in engine compartment, gearbox cover / bootfloor is missing as are all boot carpets.

Oh and it was a cat c back in 2008 as per v5, evidence on inside of o/s rear corner but decent enough repair.

Car needs a total restoration in my opinion.

Ring seller straight away he says 'no problem, I don't want to leave anybody with a bad taste in their mouths over this deal, I'll work with you.'

I tell him I want my money back as the car is significantly not as described.

He says he's away at a funeral till Monday but will ring me Tuesday.(could genuinely be!)

I asked him directly 'are you going to rip me off? Because I'd rather know now, than travel 300 miles with the car to get fobbed off'

He says he doesn't rip anybody off.....
We will see

I'd like to say long story but. . .

I have the advert off eBay, his name ,his phone number and a home address.

If this turns any sourer(which in all honesty I'm more than half expecting)

Do I have any legal redress?

I know I shouldn't have bought it unseen, paid him till it was driven onto lorry etc, but I am where I am!

Think I've been very stupid!

Anyhow you can now carry on your lives in the knowledge that there are people out there, making sillier decisions than your own!

Regards

Fy

Edited by flyinyam on Thursday 17th May 06:43

Edited by flyinyam on Thursday 17th May 06:45

Edited by flyinyam on Thursday 17th May 06:45

Edited by lids.mod on Monday 21st May 15:06

Edited by flyinyam on Wednesday 30th May 08:52

[flyinyam]

Paid by bank transfer. To sons account with halifax.

How did it drive well ?

Exactly! !! Personally I don't think it's turned a wheel in 5 yrs.

The ad photos are from when he bought it I've since guessed.

Oh and the reason they're all of the drivers side is because the nearside turbo side skirt is damaged at the front.

V5 is still in previous owners name too.

I'm not sure if he's a dealer. Think he maybe but not officially.

I'd keep the car but I'd want to keep it at 6 grand. He told me a service and an mot is all it needed.

Sounded a really well to do genuine chap too.
I think I've been stupid , funnily enough the wife does too!

Cheers

[flyinyam]

Hammer67 said:

"Anyhow guy sends me message 2 days later saying ' original purchaser was going on holiday for 3 weeks, and seller wasn't prepared to wait"

Do people actually believe this stuff? That means the seller had a stooge bidding on it to inflate the price.

Not sure a stooge was involved.
Think winning bidder may have turned up an said ' no thanks'.

Hindsight, the most useless gift in the world!
I have no doubts as to how much of a tool I've been .
Regards
Fy

[flyinyam]

Cold said:

It's worse than that. It's not even an S3 Esprit. That's an Esprit Turbo.

I wouldn't be devastated if it was a bonfire!

[flyinyam]

Might save alot of time. . . I've been a complete twonk and i know it.

I'm beating myself up about and letting it get me down now.

Wife on the other seems to sense my utter utter disappointment and is trying to chivvy me.

Tuesday call is for Tuesday coming.

If son is part of business, why would the money NOT go into his account.

Just to add he has this up presently



Regards
Fy

Edited by lids.mod on Monday 21st May 15:04

[flyinyam]

Welshbeef said:

OP
what would it cost to get it road worthy?
Is it a case of this is fit for the crusher only in which case could you recoup your money/more?

Got to be said £9,800 is a fairgly high amount to punt on an old car which is known for lot of trouble usually serious from a crew who like dags

I've honestly no idea, what I see as catastrophic (this being my first(and last) foray into classics.), could be somebody more capable/realistic not too bad!

I've already fallen out withthe car, and will never feel any love for it, so who knows. . .

Regards
Fy

Edited by flyinyam on Thursday 17th May 18:23

[flyinyam]

Ok took some photos.

Can't seem to load them.

Do i want thumbnail or forum fit.

Either one says maximum 2mb.

Took a walk round video too.

Will keep trying

Fy

[flyinyam]

C70R said:

flyinyam said:

Anyhow guy sends me message 2 days later saying ' original purchaser was going on holiday for 3 weeks
...

Tells me he has hpi report from when he bought it in 2012...
...

All the conversation was carried out very confidently and (sounded) truthfully. Guy is an older chap, sounded very honest(!!!!!)
...

As car is 300 miles away agreed price of £9,300.
...

My transporter collects car, owners son does handover, doesn't want car driven on to lorry, wants it winched on, says doesn't want any damage to car during loading! Car has no battery fitted either, took off while in storage! Shows transporter driver car turning over via jump leads.
...

Oh and it was a cat c back in 2008 as per v5, evidence on inside of o/s rear corner but decent enough repair.
...

I want my money back as the car is significantly not as described.

He says he's away at a funeral till Monday but will ring me Tuesday.(could genuinely be!)
...




Do I have any legal redress?

Just wow... Speechless.
I can't imagine what made you want to push ahead with buying a very complicated car at a VERY cheap price, bearing in mind all of the above.

I do hope that this doesn't make you give up on cars, but perhaps in this instance your 'ambition' outweighed your wallet/ability.

Foolishly by the time the lorry turned up I'd already paid. Besides not lorry drivers fault to be suspicious, he's just told what and where.

Downloading pics as we speak, as I say my nightmare might be somebody elses no dramas.

Fy

[flyinyam]

Welshbeef said:

C70R said:

Just wow... Speechless.
I can't imagine what made you want to push ahead with buying a very complicated car at a VERY cheap price, bearing in mind all of the above.

I do hope that this doesn't make you give up on cars, but perhaps in this instance your 'ambition' outweighed your wallet/ability.

He has a Porsche and 2 super bikes I think he is tucked up nicely

Ha ha that's an old picture!

Got older so got a jag , still 2 bikes tho (bmw gs1200adventure and 450f supermoto).

Oh and a bigger house and a bigger garage!
More room for projects! !!!!!!!! That I don't want.

Fy

[flyinyam]

Hi chaps.

Sorry to not have updated with pictures,
I did but the link directed to my personal floor account so I deleted the link

I'm away at the north west 200 at the moment but am with some more tech savvy friends so hopefully pictures later.

I have 30+ photos and a walk round video, and the obligatory custard photo!..

I know I've not 'lost' £9300, but it's the feeling of being told blatant lies I wouldn't do it simple as. May as well have just hit me on the head and took my money. I see it as simple as that. . Theft.

But I still hold out hope of a resolution.

And the car ISN'T running and driving.
Despite being told it was!

Anyhow photos to follow. . Hopefully.

Fy

[flyinyam]

Hopefully this link works,

A few more to add yet.

Sorry quite a few repeated

Thanks to InitialDave



http://imgur.com/gallery/btJ5kGp

http://imgur.com/a/Z1DtjBv

Regards

Fy

Edited by flyinyam on Saturday 19th May 18:24

Edited by flyinyam on Saturday 19th May 19:04

[flyinyam]

EazyDuz said:

On one hand my heart goes out to you, putting myself in that situation i'd feel low and sick to my stomach every time I glance out the window and see that battered old rust bucket.
On the other hand however, I would never be dumb enough to spend that much money, sight unseen, to a in a different country whom is obviously a trader, even if I had necked half a bottle of vodka.

You know what they say, play stupid games win stupid prizes, well, enjoy your stupid prize, complete with stupid shower door as a stupid sunroof.

It's actually a cut piece of glass albeit cracked for the sunroof.

Stupid game???
I
I've sold a motorbike to a guy in Swansea, and a range rover to a guy in Sheffield, both sight unseen, and had no issues at all.

I know a trader who has sold 'about 9 vehicles ' sight unseen and never had a single complaint.

If you give/are given an honest description and answer questions truthfully, hiding nothing, the process works.

This is not about the buying process, it's about the dishonesty involved.

Regards
Fy

[flyinyam]

Durzel said:

No offence to Welshbeef but can anyone else back up what he is saying about how it's basically a diamond in the rough?

To the untrained eye it looks like a disaster zone, and the OP sounds like the sort of person who just wants a functional car, and isn't really looking for (or skilled to handle) a serious project such as this.

There is also the issue of how you feel about it too. The OP didn't buy this car knowing it would be a project, he bought it with expectations that it was something other than what it is based on the sellers (fraudulent) description of it. In that context he's probably looking at it with a degree of resignation, and isn't mentally prepared for what is going to be involved in getting it even up to the spec that he thought he was getting.

Think this sums my feelings up.

I knew it would need money (2-3 grand maybe?)

Tyres,cam belt,service,consumables,bit of paint etc.

Relevant straight forward stuff, to make nice.

This however. . . . !

I told the guy I would take it back and even give him a good drink for the inconvenience.

Made no bones about the fact it wasn't anything like described, completely the opposite and i did not want the car.

As regards restoration, it would be my least favourite option, I wouldn't feel comfortable putting another 10-15k into it.

Which I'm estimating (with no great knowledge).

Think offering it back for sale whilst being honest and upfront and taking the hit.

Regards

Fy

[flyinyam]

Welshbeef said:

Collective knowledge - what it really worth as is?

Is it a £5k Bath for OP or is this nearing weigh in value only? If the latter surely he’d then be better off breaking - but I’m not convinced OP is up for that ball ache either

Considered the option of breaking , but someone with more skill, knowledge and enthusiasm could probably turn it round.

Fy

[flyinyam]

Been given the name of a (hopefully) suitable solicitor.

Will give him a call, see where I can go.

Regards
Fy

[flyinyam]

Andy OH said:

OP, any update on the seller contacting you or you contacting him?

Nope, no news.

Think I was foolishly (desperately! ) hoping for the guy to come good.

Not looking good at all.

Waiting to speak to solicitor now to see my legal position .

Will update on any progress.

Regards
Fy