Low Valuation - Insurance write off
Discussion
Hi everyone!
My wife drives a 2008 Porsche Cayenne GTS, has 111k, full service history, every single possible option and some rare ones at that. Spectacular condition.
She caught the front left corner on a fence which damaged the headlight, wing and bumper. A bodyshop has quoted £5000 to repair, I could personally have everything done, using second hand parts for about around £2.5k-£3k which I’d rather not, I’d prefer to go through her insurance and have them repair it rather than short change us/categorise the car.
However, they have said it’s a write off and offered £7.6k.
NO!
I sent a ton of evidence, 5 examples of cars on the market, a valuation from Porsche club GB (£13k), and photos of the car. Now this car, is EXTREMELY clean, show condition, it is immaculate as I’m very particular, I clean the inner arches out, underside and regularly detail the car. I used to win shows with some of my other cars so I’m not exaggerating on its condition being very clean. It’s also had a ton spent recently on new Michelin tyres, full set of wishbones, arms, steering joints and so on, it drives perfect.
Anyway, after submitting the evidence, I got a re-evaluation today of £8.5k.
Now I am under the impression that the valuation should enable us to buy a like for like car…
I think £8.5k is below the belt, the worst example on the market with 150k is up for this figure! The next example is £9990! The top being a 56k mile car for £15k and in the middle, a 100k mile car for £12k. All of which have less options and not as desirable, IMO.
Heres is their email with this new valuation in reply to all of the evidence which I sent in.
“We review Market guides such as Glass’s Guide, Parkers and CAPS which are considered to be a reliable source for valuing used vehicles. This is because their figures take into account the make and model of a vehicle and its age, mileage and condition. Crucially, their values are based on actual sale transactions as opposed to asking prices which reflect the sellers’ highest expectations and are inevitably subject to negotiation.
We also look into online adverts to see the current market advertised prices, this helps us determine if the guides are in line with real world values.
Upon review I am in a position to offer a value of £8500.00 to settle your claim.
The value offered would be less any contractual agreements you have under your insurance policy.
If you feel that you can accept the value offered, then please let me know and I will submit the file back to our claims team to consider raising payment.”
A lot of questions come to mind, how do “Crucially, their values are based on actual sale transactions as opposed to asking prices” ok, do they know every sale transaction from the likes of eBay and other marketplaces? I doubt it..
Then a contradiction of “asking prices” yet they then go on to look at online adverts… well you clearly haven’t as you’d see that from the few on the market, mine is not comparable to an £8.5k example.
Clearly an email template they send or a joke.
What do I do, am I right to be angry? I want them to either raise the value to what it should be and fix the car or payout a value over £11k. Then I will buy it back and repair. Appreciate any advice here.
Thanks
My wife drives a 2008 Porsche Cayenne GTS, has 111k, full service history, every single possible option and some rare ones at that. Spectacular condition.
She caught the front left corner on a fence which damaged the headlight, wing and bumper. A bodyshop has quoted £5000 to repair, I could personally have everything done, using second hand parts for about around £2.5k-£3k which I’d rather not, I’d prefer to go through her insurance and have them repair it rather than short change us/categorise the car.
However, they have said it’s a write off and offered £7.6k.
NO!
I sent a ton of evidence, 5 examples of cars on the market, a valuation from Porsche club GB (£13k), and photos of the car. Now this car, is EXTREMELY clean, show condition, it is immaculate as I’m very particular, I clean the inner arches out, underside and regularly detail the car. I used to win shows with some of my other cars so I’m not exaggerating on its condition being very clean. It’s also had a ton spent recently on new Michelin tyres, full set of wishbones, arms, steering joints and so on, it drives perfect.
Anyway, after submitting the evidence, I got a re-evaluation today of £8.5k.
Now I am under the impression that the valuation should enable us to buy a like for like car…
I think £8.5k is below the belt, the worst example on the market with 150k is up for this figure! The next example is £9990! The top being a 56k mile car for £15k and in the middle, a 100k mile car for £12k. All of which have less options and not as desirable, IMO.
Heres is their email with this new valuation in reply to all of the evidence which I sent in.
“We review Market guides such as Glass’s Guide, Parkers and CAPS which are considered to be a reliable source for valuing used vehicles. This is because their figures take into account the make and model of a vehicle and its age, mileage and condition. Crucially, their values are based on actual sale transactions as opposed to asking prices which reflect the sellers’ highest expectations and are inevitably subject to negotiation.
We also look into online adverts to see the current market advertised prices, this helps us determine if the guides are in line with real world values.
Upon review I am in a position to offer a value of £8500.00 to settle your claim.
The value offered would be less any contractual agreements you have under your insurance policy.
If you feel that you can accept the value offered, then please let me know and I will submit the file back to our claims team to consider raising payment.”
A lot of questions come to mind, how do “Crucially, their values are based on actual sale transactions as opposed to asking prices” ok, do they know every sale transaction from the likes of eBay and other marketplaces? I doubt it..
Then a contradiction of “asking prices” yet they then go on to look at online adverts… well you clearly haven’t as you’d see that from the few on the market, mine is not comparable to an £8.5k example.
Clearly an email template they send or a joke.
What do I do, am I right to be angry? I want them to either raise the value to what it should be and fix the car or payout a value over £11k. Then I will buy it back and repair. Appreciate any advice here.
Thanks
Thanks to each and every one of you, very helpful replies indeed.
To be honest, for this car, as my wifes run around, I never thought to give an agreed value like I do with some of my others, I never anticipated or realised, how scamming insurance companies can be. In 20 years, I have only had 1 experience of insurance and that was from a neighbour hitting a car of mine, I just had to take 1 phone call and my car was collected while a courtesy car was dropped off and the damage was reversed, great!
This however, has been hassle from the beginning, this is with Hastings Direct and I can only take it as a lesson for the future, we're always learning..
They provided a list of bodyshops for me to choose from, all with 1 or 2 star ratings, I was told I could choose my own but they would charge £250 for the pleasure. Anyway, I was offered a bigger list and found a bodyshop with 5 star google ratings and photos of good work, so went with that. 2 weeks went by and not a peep, nothing, I called to complain that my wife has been left with a car that has a broken headlight (I had actually made best of this so that the car could be used) and that we need a courtesy car that will get 2 prams in and the variety of kids stuff.. 5 days and many phone calls went by and a Fiat 500 turns up... okkkkkkkk! Never heard from any bodyshops, I had to chase and chase and chase.
After they called to give the news of the £7k valuation and that they will write it off, the Fiat 500 was promptly collected the next day! I thought that was harsh and the lady on the phone was practically laughing. Couldn't believe it.
Anyway, I am where I am now, I don't think I am dreaming with my valuation, there are very few Cayenne 957 GTS's on the market and mine is certainly the best of the bunch. So I will construct a reply to ensure they have actually read my evidence pack and request that they find me a similar car I can buy for £8.5k.
Noted on the ombudsman and will check out my policy details now.
Thanks again all!
To be honest, for this car, as my wifes run around, I never thought to give an agreed value like I do with some of my others, I never anticipated or realised, how scamming insurance companies can be. In 20 years, I have only had 1 experience of insurance and that was from a neighbour hitting a car of mine, I just had to take 1 phone call and my car was collected while a courtesy car was dropped off and the damage was reversed, great!
This however, has been hassle from the beginning, this is with Hastings Direct and I can only take it as a lesson for the future, we're always learning..
They provided a list of bodyshops for me to choose from, all with 1 or 2 star ratings, I was told I could choose my own but they would charge £250 for the pleasure. Anyway, I was offered a bigger list and found a bodyshop with 5 star google ratings and photos of good work, so went with that. 2 weeks went by and not a peep, nothing, I called to complain that my wife has been left with a car that has a broken headlight (I had actually made best of this so that the car could be used) and that we need a courtesy car that will get 2 prams in and the variety of kids stuff.. 5 days and many phone calls went by and a Fiat 500 turns up... okkkkkkkk! Never heard from any bodyshops, I had to chase and chase and chase.
After they called to give the news of the £7k valuation and that they will write it off, the Fiat 500 was promptly collected the next day! I thought that was harsh and the lady on the phone was practically laughing. Couldn't believe it.
Anyway, I am where I am now, I don't think I am dreaming with my valuation, there are very few Cayenne 957 GTS's on the market and mine is certainly the best of the bunch. So I will construct a reply to ensure they have actually read my evidence pack and request that they find me a similar car I can buy for £8.5k.
Noted on the ombudsman and will check out my policy details now.
Thanks again all!
Checked policy. valuation should be "up to market value at time of incident"
Below are the examples of cars and info, which I sent to them as part of the evidence I gathered.
Just for reference, these are the only GTS models available.
I don't expect to get £13k but I don't think £11k is unreasonable, which should warrant a repair!
Although I am becoming open to an offer of £10k, having them write the vehicle off and then allow me to purchase it back, but this depends on what the re-purchase cost would be. Do they take the vehicle and assses or simply offer a buy back figure over the phone to save the logistics? I don't anticipate selling this vehicle, we will run it until the engine or gearbox gives up the ghost so a cat rating on the vehicle won't be so bad.
My mind is all over the place (busy time for my businesses) so forgive any inconsistent thoughts I type here.
Below are the examples of cars and info, which I sent to them as part of the evidence I gathered.
Just for reference, these are the only GTS models available.
I don't expect to get £13k but I don't think £11k is unreasonable, which should warrant a repair!
Although I am becoming open to an offer of £10k, having them write the vehicle off and then allow me to purchase it back, but this depends on what the re-purchase cost would be. Do they take the vehicle and assses or simply offer a buy back figure over the phone to save the logistics? I don't anticipate selling this vehicle, we will run it until the engine or gearbox gives up the ghost so a cat rating on the vehicle won't be so bad.
My mind is all over the place (busy time for my businesses) so forgive any inconsistent thoughts I type here.
I just noticed an attachment on the email sent.
Please see below
The have based it on those being a 59 plate, regardless of their condition, the black one is a dog and autotrader even states is it £1.3k under the average value.
The white one has also been reduced in price since my screenshot, aren't they meant to take the value at time of accident, which was before christmas, so not fair to use a reduced price now?
So by his logic, "Both examples are over a year newer" - So in a years time you expect them to have depreciated another 20-30%? lol! Where is the logic
Sorry but there is no chance anyone would have my car on the market for £8.5k or even accept that little for it, no way!
I still have not replied but trying to compile something..
Before I saw the above, I had written this;
I hope this email finds you well. I appreciate your efforts in assessing the valuation for my 2008 Porsche Cayenne GTS following the recent accident. However, after careful consideration and market research, I believe that the offered value of £8,500 does not accurately reflect the true market value of my vehicle at time of accident.
I have attached evidence of recent online listings for similar models, which I do not appear in the same condition or as well optioned, which consistently show a market value well above the offered amount. My car has been meticulously maintained, has a full service history, and is in immaculate condition, factors that contribute significantly to its overall value. I cannot purchase a similar vehicle for the amount you are offering.
I kindly request a thorough review of the valuation, taking into account the provided evidence again. I believe a fair and equitable settlement should be in line with the current market value for my vehicle.
If necessary, I am prepared to escalate this matter to the Financial Ombudsman Service for a third-party review. I trust that we can reach a mutually agreeable resolution before considering such steps.
I look forward to your prompt attention to this matter and a revised valuation that accurately reflects the fair market value of my vehicle.
Thank you for your understanding and cooperation.
Sincerely,
Please see below
The have based it on those being a 59 plate, regardless of their condition, the black one is a dog and autotrader even states is it £1.3k under the average value.
The white one has also been reduced in price since my screenshot, aren't they meant to take the value at time of accident, which was before christmas, so not fair to use a reduced price now?
So by his logic, "Both examples are over a year newer" - So in a years time you expect them to have depreciated another 20-30%? lol! Where is the logic
Sorry but there is no chance anyone would have my car on the market for £8.5k or even accept that little for it, no way!
I still have not replied but trying to compile something..
Before I saw the above, I had written this;
I hope this email finds you well. I appreciate your efforts in assessing the valuation for my 2008 Porsche Cayenne GTS following the recent accident. However, after careful consideration and market research, I believe that the offered value of £8,500 does not accurately reflect the true market value of my vehicle at time of accident.
I have attached evidence of recent online listings for similar models, which I do not appear in the same condition or as well optioned, which consistently show a market value well above the offered amount. My car has been meticulously maintained, has a full service history, and is in immaculate condition, factors that contribute significantly to its overall value. I cannot purchase a similar vehicle for the amount you are offering.
I kindly request a thorough review of the valuation, taking into account the provided evidence again. I believe a fair and equitable settlement should be in line with the current market value for my vehicle.
If necessary, I am prepared to escalate this matter to the Financial Ombudsman Service for a third-party review. I trust that we can reach a mutually agreeable resolution before considering such steps.
I look forward to your prompt attention to this matter and a revised valuation that accurately reflects the fair market value of my vehicle.
Thank you for your understanding and cooperation.
Sincerely,
Edited by MarkGolf on Friday 19th January 11:34
Edited by MarkGolf on Friday 19th January 11:38
Incredible that they get away with this, simply because we are all forced to pay it.
Thanks again for the input here, I am slowly editing my reply.
If I accepted their £8,500, I could get back into a 2008 Cayenne GTS, just one with 43k more miles (154k) and I seriously doubt it's condition and maintenance is anywhere close to mine.
I'll be sending that example in and see how they turn that around.
.
Thanks again for the input here, I am slowly editing my reply.
If I accepted their £8,500, I could get back into a 2008 Cayenne GTS, just one with 43k more miles (154k) and I seriously doubt it's condition and maintenance is anywhere close to mine.
I'll be sending that example in and see how they turn that around.
.
All noted, thank you for the help here guys.
Cracking cars indeed, we love it and it has been good to us. I have never had a car with miles this high but this has been too good to rid of.
Thanks again
This is my first draft, I don't want to press any buttons to make the recipient think I'm a knob but I want to stand my ground. Not sure I should use the ombudsmen line just yet.
Any advice on points I should include or remove?
I hope this email finds you well. I appreciate your efforts in assessing the valuation for my 2008 Porsche Cayenne GTS following the recent accident. However, after careful consideration and market research, I believe that the offered value of £8,500 does not accurately reflect the true market value of my vehicle.
Whist the examples provided may be 59 Plate vehicles with slightly lower mileage, it is crucial to recognise that my Porsche Cayenne GTS stands out due to its factory optioned specification which would have resulted in a higher value, more desirable vehicle along with it’s exceptional condition with meticulous maintenance. These factors contribute significantly to its overall value, distinguishing it from the lower specification and lower maintained vehicles used for comparison. The single-year difference does not necessarily justify a circa 20% reduction in value and makes little to no difference to someone buying one of these. If I were to market the vehicle, it would be for £12,500.
The valuation should enable me to buy another similar condition, optioned car, please find me an example for £8.500 which resembles mine.
I understand that Glass's Guide and CAP are widely used tools in the industry. While they provide valuable insights into general market trends, they do not fully account for the individual characteristics that contribute significantly to the value of my vehicle and special edition models, which going by the guide, shows a value below £7,850, there have never been any Cayenne GTS’s similar to mine going for a 4 digit value.
I have attached evidence of a similar 2008 model in white with a strange colour interior, not as well optioned as mine and shows a value well above the offered amount to me. My car has been meticulously maintained and is in immaculate condition, factors that contribute significantly to its overall value, something these traders guides do not factor in for above average market condition.
The black £9,990 example is clearly not in a great condition, as confirmed by a call to the dealer selling, it visibly has a missing jacking point cover, filthy/worn buttons photographed, moisture filled headlight, yet being 1 year newer with 6k less miles makes it a case to drop the value of my car. The price reflects it’s condition as the seller told me and it “needs some love”. Autotrader also lists as currently being £800 below the market average. If that’s the market average, mine should be on the higher side. I’d welcome any inspection.
I kindly request a thorough review of the valuation, taking into account the provided evidence. I believe a fair and equitable settlement should be in line with the current market value for my vehicle. I simply want my car repaired or the same car which can be purchased for the valuation being given.
If necessary, I am prepared to escalate this matter to the Financial Ombudsman Service for a third-party review. I trust that we can reach a mutually agreeable resolution before considering such steps.
Thank you for your understanding.
Sincerely,
Cracking cars indeed, we love it and it has been good to us. I have never had a car with miles this high but this has been too good to rid of.
Thanks again
This is my first draft, I don't want to press any buttons to make the recipient think I'm a knob but I want to stand my ground. Not sure I should use the ombudsmen line just yet.
Any advice on points I should include or remove?
I hope this email finds you well. I appreciate your efforts in assessing the valuation for my 2008 Porsche Cayenne GTS following the recent accident. However, after careful consideration and market research, I believe that the offered value of £8,500 does not accurately reflect the true market value of my vehicle.
Whist the examples provided may be 59 Plate vehicles with slightly lower mileage, it is crucial to recognise that my Porsche Cayenne GTS stands out due to its factory optioned specification which would have resulted in a higher value, more desirable vehicle along with it’s exceptional condition with meticulous maintenance. These factors contribute significantly to its overall value, distinguishing it from the lower specification and lower maintained vehicles used for comparison. The single-year difference does not necessarily justify a circa 20% reduction in value and makes little to no difference to someone buying one of these. If I were to market the vehicle, it would be for £12,500.
The valuation should enable me to buy another similar condition, optioned car, please find me an example for £8.500 which resembles mine.
I understand that Glass's Guide and CAP are widely used tools in the industry. While they provide valuable insights into general market trends, they do not fully account for the individual characteristics that contribute significantly to the value of my vehicle and special edition models, which going by the guide, shows a value below £7,850, there have never been any Cayenne GTS’s similar to mine going for a 4 digit value.
I have attached evidence of a similar 2008 model in white with a strange colour interior, not as well optioned as mine and shows a value well above the offered amount to me. My car has been meticulously maintained and is in immaculate condition, factors that contribute significantly to its overall value, something these traders guides do not factor in for above average market condition.
The black £9,990 example is clearly not in a great condition, as confirmed by a call to the dealer selling, it visibly has a missing jacking point cover, filthy/worn buttons photographed, moisture filled headlight, yet being 1 year newer with 6k less miles makes it a case to drop the value of my car. The price reflects it’s condition as the seller told me and it “needs some love”. Autotrader also lists as currently being £800 below the market average. If that’s the market average, mine should be on the higher side. I’d welcome any inspection.
I kindly request a thorough review of the valuation, taking into account the provided evidence. I believe a fair and equitable settlement should be in line with the current market value for my vehicle. I simply want my car repaired or the same car which can be purchased for the valuation being given.
If necessary, I am prepared to escalate this matter to the Financial Ombudsman Service for a third-party review. I trust that we can reach a mutually agreeable resolution before considering such steps.
Thank you for your understanding.
Sincerely,
alscar said:
Quick edit - your average of cars mentioned is just under £12k which includes that Porsche valuation at £13k.
On reflection use therefore a range of their increased offer of £8,500 to that average £12,000 ( and state this is the average ) and then chuck in the Porsche valuation by number as back up.
Of course none of this guarantees a thing but it will show that you aren’t to be fobbed off so easily.
If they come back and say no change in their offer then that then leaves door open again for your “ punchier but still polite “ next attempt.
Good point on the average, thank you!On reflection use therefore a range of their increased offer of £8,500 to that average £12,000 ( and state this is the average ) and then chuck in the Porsche valuation by number as back up.
Of course none of this guarantees a thing but it will show that you aren’t to be fobbed off so easily.
If they come back and say no change in their offer then that then leaves door open again for your “ punchier but still polite “ next attempt.
So looks like it's about to be settled for me now.
Final update (Hopefully)
I had replied to the email from the insurance where they valued the GTS at £8.5k. With the input gathered from here and some extra info from Sidekick, I ended up receiving a call from the insurance, I answered the call ready for a fight but, that emotion was quickly extinguished.
I can't give enough credit to the guy who called, representing Hastings, a top guy, totally straight, down to earth and really pleasant to talk to.
He quickly addressed the situation, having explained that on his system, the car is classed as a total loss as the repair quotation is circa £9k and based on the value taken from the guides, along with my examples aiming for 11-13k, there's no chance of it getting a repair through them based on a £9k bill.
He went on to say, he went on to take a look at the items being quoted for and seeing items such as steering arms, wishbones, airbag, strut etc, made him question how damaged the car really is.
I said it's purely cosmetic, it's still driving perfectly fine and aside from a headlight warning, you would never know of any damage from inside the car.
He replied with, "I thought so, the damage doesn't look that bad at all so I was surprised to see those items on there"
He asked me questions along the lines of, is the tracking out, even if it's not, it's well worth getting a GEO done before you have any repairs done, just in case, any noises, any vibrations etc etc etc.
I explained that it's fine and without trying to sound like a know it all, I'm pretty experienced and handy with cars, there is no chance that there is any damage to suspension components etc.
OK, so, with that, he said he thinks the value is more like £11k, not a total loss and having gone through the evidence, what he thinks the car requires to be put right, they would like to offer a cash settlement.
So I just needed to submit the 2 quotes I had and he would check them over.
Today, I've received confirmation that this is going ahead, I don't know the settlement figure as yet but should find out shortly, 1 quote was £5.2k inc VAT and the other just over £6k.
I thought I would just update for all that have helped and anyone in the future who finds themselves in a similar position.
I will update once the settlement actually happens..
Thanks again all. Good result (I hope) and great help from here.
Final update (Hopefully)
I had replied to the email from the insurance where they valued the GTS at £8.5k. With the input gathered from here and some extra info from Sidekick, I ended up receiving a call from the insurance, I answered the call ready for a fight but, that emotion was quickly extinguished.
I can't give enough credit to the guy who called, representing Hastings, a top guy, totally straight, down to earth and really pleasant to talk to.
He quickly addressed the situation, having explained that on his system, the car is classed as a total loss as the repair quotation is circa £9k and based on the value taken from the guides, along with my examples aiming for 11-13k, there's no chance of it getting a repair through them based on a £9k bill.
He went on to say, he went on to take a look at the items being quoted for and seeing items such as steering arms, wishbones, airbag, strut etc, made him question how damaged the car really is.
I said it's purely cosmetic, it's still driving perfectly fine and aside from a headlight warning, you would never know of any damage from inside the car.
He replied with, "I thought so, the damage doesn't look that bad at all so I was surprised to see those items on there"
He asked me questions along the lines of, is the tracking out, even if it's not, it's well worth getting a GEO done before you have any repairs done, just in case, any noises, any vibrations etc etc etc.
I explained that it's fine and without trying to sound like a know it all, I'm pretty experienced and handy with cars, there is no chance that there is any damage to suspension components etc.
OK, so, with that, he said he thinks the value is more like £11k, not a total loss and having gone through the evidence, what he thinks the car requires to be put right, they would like to offer a cash settlement.
So I just needed to submit the 2 quotes I had and he would check them over.
Today, I've received confirmation that this is going ahead, I don't know the settlement figure as yet but should find out shortly, 1 quote was £5.2k inc VAT and the other just over £6k.
I thought I would just update for all that have helped and anyone in the future who finds themselves in a similar position.
I will update once the settlement actually happens..
Thanks again all. Good result (I hope) and great help from here.
Gassing Station | Speed, Plod & the Law | Top of Page | What's New | My Stuff