Dealer Mistake

[arfur sleep]

Car has in built sat nav which runs from a map DVD installed behind the facia.

The system has frozen up a couple of times recently but generally comes back to life overnight however decided to get it looked at so booked into local dealer for them to check over. I’ve used the dealership several times before and never had a problem. I signed a form this morning when I dropped the vehicle off which stated that I consented for them to look at the vehicle and take appropriate action as required. I suspected that they may need to re-install the firmware or there maybe a hardware fault.

2 hours later the dealer called to say that there was a problem. They’d plugged the car into the diagnostic system and it said there was a firmware update available for the sat nav system so they downloaded, deleting the old version.

New firmware initially appeared to be working fine until they re-installed the map DVD, it won’t play. Map DVD is from end of 2007 when the car was made, new firmware can only utilise a 2010 map DVD. Can’t de-install the new firmware so the sat nav is inoperative unless a 2010 map DVD is installed, they retail at £315.

Dealer claims there was no warning or advice from the manufacturer that updating the firmware would mean the older map DVD wouldn’t work. Dealer has said that manufacturer won’t supply new map DVD free of charge as it is not covered by warranty stating that if owner wants up to date maps then they have to buy the new DVD. I have no problem with the manufacturer position.

Dealer has not offered anything - even an apology - as yet, they’re blaming the manufacturer’s duff info. Unfortunately I had to break the initial call to go to a meeting and the guy I need to speak to is at lunch now.

I’m going to be pressing for new disc FOC from the dealer as they screwed up a working system (albeit one with intermittent faults) by their actions. One of their technicians may not have followed procedure to check that the old disc would work in the new firmware or maybe the manufacturer hasn’t supplied right info – either way it went in to them working and now it doesn't.

Anyone had a similar experience / offer advice on action?

[arfur sleep]

it's a Ford product.

Dealer is still trying to wash hands and blaming the lack of info on the firmware update. According to them the system freezing is a known problem as there was a product bulletin issued by Ford saying the fix was to upload the new firmware but again the dealer stressed that there was no information / advice / warning that the old map DVD would not work with the new software. They said that at that point they would have called me to discuss. Dealer has also said that as the system had frozen a couple of times already it's likely that it would have permanently locked somewhere down the line and i'd have had to buy a new map DVD anyway.....however I'd like to have had the choice of having a system that occasionally freeze and may crash permanently rather than just been given the option of paying £315 or not having a working system!

Anyway, I've raised it with Ford customer service as a complaint and they are investigating both the situation and the dealer response. I've been advised that I may be offered a discount on the new disc however i'm going to be pushing for a new disc FOC or a re-install of the old software.

[arfur sleep]

Dave^ said:

I'd try getting the DVD from elsewhere, and try asking them for a goodwill payment, money off a service etc...

http://navigation.teleatlas.com/en/shop/car-naviga...

see your point on that but I don't see why I should shell out at all. System was working ( two 'freezes' in last 6 months, otherwise faultless), system failed in normal usage, system then rendered inoperative by dealer when trying to fix. Dealer has to make good.

[arfur sleep]

Beyond Rational said:

A quick google brought this up:

http://www.fordmondeo.org/forum/showtopic.php?tid/...

If issues between 2007 discs and updated firmware have existed since 2008, you'd think there would be some sort of infomation on the issue available to the dealerships.

I was going to Google for info - thanks for saving me the bother. Yeah seems like either Ford haven't been bothered to put a warning On the update or the dealer ignored it in error or intentionally.

[arfur sleep]

BMWBen said:

If the sat nav not working as you say is a warranty claim, and the warranty fix requires a disc upgrade in order to render the sat nav working, the warranty claim must include the disc!

Very simple I'd have thought.

Discs not covered by warranty except for first 12 months of life. Ford, and other manufacturers, say that the user should update the disc every year when a new one is released, it's classed as a consumable. Ford's position is that if they covered under warranty then they'd have to provide a new disc to everyone every year. Spoke to someone else with the same nav system in their car last night, they had to get a new disc after 18 months as the disc corrupted itself - Ford refused to supply or pay anything towards cost of the new one.

I do concur with the poster above that this is likely to be the dealer at fault not Ford, my suspicion all along but I'm waiting for the response from Ford before i kick off at the dealer.

[arfur sleep]

ExPat2B said:

Can anyone explain to me how a DVD can be 300 quid ? Considering you can buy a top of the range SatNav for 300 pounds.

It reeks of price gouging by Ford. And they are not alone.

tell me about it!!

Annoyingly i bought the car despite the sat nav system, having worked in the fleet business previously i knew that when they go wrong it's always expensive and a PITA as its part of the car not just a device that can be easily replaced.

[arfur sleep]

cptsideways said:

I bet you can buy the disk on ebay for £20

2008 discs yes but i've been told by the dealer that the new firmware will only accept 2010 discs and can't see those around on eBay etc

Checking with another dealer now whether what they'd do if i'd have taken the vehicle into them with the same problem - specifically if they'd know about the required disc change.

[arfur sleep]

Spoke to service manager at another local dealership last night.

They confirmed that new firmware is the recommended fix for the system freeze I experienced but wouldn’t comment on whether there was any information from Ford regarding old map discs not working with the new firmware. He did say that it sounded “about right” that once the upgrade had occurred I’d then have to buy a new map disc.

I asked if he thought it was right that a fault that is repaired under warranty effectively leaves me either £315 out of pocket or with an inoperative sat nav system, he didn’t answer but gave me the number of Ford customer relations to talk to “if I was that concerned”. Only thing I really learnt from the conversation is that I won’t be using that dealer if I move away from the current one!

--

Just spoken to Ford Customer Relations and after a bit of a discussion (possibly verging on a rant on my part) they did indirectly confirm that the information given to the dealers regarding the software does not warn of this problem. They also now might have a magic 2007 map disc that will work with the new software – I believe the magic bit about it is that they use a magic marker to cross out 2010 and write 2007 on the disc label.....

[arfur sleep]

Spoke to dealer last night and asked what was going on re them fixing my sat nav system.
He'd just got off the phone from Ford who are supplying me with an updated map disc for free that will work with the new software. It's not a 2010 disc but a 2008 disc which is fine by me, i'd have been happy with the 2007 disc working again.

Apparently Ford have admitted that this is a known problem which their technical documentation doesn't make clear...

so result all in all.