K-series Caterham for sub 11k... possible??

[Matt W]

IAmTupperware said:

DoubleD said:

If you are consider an older engine then there is a vauxhall engine car for just £8.5k on pistonheads

I think for the added benefits the crossflow I'm looking at is probably better?

The VX engine is considered to be pretty much bulletproof. I would expect one to be more reliable than a Crossflow. What added benefits do you think a Crossflow has over a VX?

I should point out that I do have a vested interest as the £8.5k VX that is for sale is mine.

[DoubleD]

Matt W said:

IAmTupperware said:

DoubleD said:

If you are consider an older engine then there is a vauxhall engine car for just £8.5k on pistonheads

I think for the added benefits the crossflow I'm looking at is probably better?

The VX engine is considered to be pretty much bulletproof. I would expect one to be more reliable than a Crossflow. What added benefits do you think a Crossflow has over a VX?

I should point out that I do have a vested interest as the £8.5k VX that is for sale is mine.

The car does look very tidy. I see its just 105bhp, can the power be increased anymore?

[HustleRussell]

The Vauxhall is a more modern engine than the Ford crossflow. Overhead cam, hydraulic lifters, aluminium head... There's not a lot to choose between them in terms of performance when in standard tune. They have been extensively compared on the track where the Vauxhall is preferred at all circuits bar a few as it delivers more torque.

The Vauxhall lacks the ubiquity of the crossflow, which has been very well developed over the years. It is possible to easily stroke the Vauxhall out to 1.8l and with some head work it will deliver an extra 30bhp or so. I'm not aware of anybody progressing far beyond this stage as the sensible next step is to sling a 2.0l 16v Vauxhall engine in.

[BertBert]

I hadn't realised the VX 1600 was that easily tunable. At 135 bhp it's right up there with the crossflow 1700 supersprint.

[HustleRussell]

I may have made it sound a little simpler than it is. There was a chap called Bill Blydenstein who was an authority on tuning SOHC Vauxhall heads. I believe that 135bhp required bigger inlet valves, a cam, and some porting / valve seat work. Unfortunately Bill has passed away and I don't know who is as well practiced with the Vauxhall SOHC lump.

I know all of this because I once bought a second hand 1.6L Vauxhall engine from a 2.0L converted Caterham and when I sent it to the engine builders for a freshen up it emerged that it had one of Bill's heads on it along with the camshaft. It's unfortunate that I never made it to the race circuit with that configuration, it would've been a welcome unfair advantage.

The 1.8L bottom end was available as a factory upgrade from Caterham. I believe you can achieve the same effect if you substitute a complete bottom end from a single-point injection 1.8l Cavalier circa 1993.

[DoubleD]

So maybe a 2.0 vauxhall engine in a £8.5k car might be a better bet than a £11k k series car? What sorts of power are the 2.0? Is it an expensive job?

[andy97]

DoubleD said:

The car does look very tidy. I see its just 105bhp, can the power be increased anymore?

I have a. 1600 8 valve VX engine with twin Weber 45s, albeit in a Mk2 Escort rally car. It’s been on a rolling road and gave 135bhp at the flywheel.

When I can get round to it, it will be replaced by a Pinto, and will be for sale. I prefer originality!

[andy97]

DoubleD said:

So maybe a 2.0 vauxhall engine in a £8.5k car might be a better bet than a £11k k series car? What sorts of power are the 2.0? Is it an expensive job?

This has been for sale for a long time

https://www.racecarsdirect.com/Advert/Details/9422...

Not sure whether road legal but I doubt you could buy a car and convert for this price.

[DoubleD]

andy97 said:

DoubleD said:

So maybe a 2.0 vauxhall engine in a £8.5k car might be a better bet than a £11k k series car? What sorts of power are the 2.0? Is it an expensive job?

This has been for sale for a long time

https://www.racecarsdirect.com/Advert/Details/9422...

Not sure whether road legal but I doubt you could buy a car and convert for this price.

Ah ok, so not a cheap thing to do then.

[dhutch]

DoubleD said:

Ah ok, so not a cheap thing to do then.

Most engine swaps, even between similar engines, cost more time and money than you could ever expect. That's not saying certain swaps (say a 1.8 blacktop to 2l blacktop) arnt easier than most, or that with time you cant do it reasonably cheaply, but even something like CVH or Silvertop to Blacktop (sorry, know more about the ford range the the vauxhall redtop) is far from simple.

Clutch
Clutch release system
Flywheel
Engine mounts
Bell housing
Sump arrangement
Coolant hoses
Exhaust manifold
Inlet manifold
Ignition system
Fuel system
Oil, coolant, other fluids
Tuning/Rolling road
Engine hoist required, ideally engine stand
Huge torx driver you will only used once require
The list just goes on!

And when people say 'the gearbox and one of the two engines is the same, and the chassis mounts should fit' what that means is you will have a right pig about with templating and making the other engine mount from scratch, and the chassis will need cutting and welding to make it fit as the build consistency is none existent.

That's not to say don't do it, but its not a £350 done in a weekend job.


Daniel

[BertBert]

DoubleD said:

So maybe a 2.0 vauxhall engine in a £8.5k car might be a better bet than a £11k k series car? What sorts of power are the 2.0? Is it an expensive job?

I assume the classic at 8.5k is a live axle car, which there's no way you want to stick a 2.0 16v in.
Bert

[Roblot]

Just a quick one.
There is a lot to be said for live axles, in my experience they tend not to chatter , grind or wine as much,maybe not so good for very high outputs; but I have found to be fine up to 150BHP

[DoubleD]

I hadnt realised that there was so much to change for an engine swap. I guess the OP would be better to wait for a K Series car.

[dhutch]

BertBert said:

I assume the classic at 8.5k is a live axle car, which there's no way you want to stick a 2.0 16v in.
Bert

Dont see why not, ive got a live-rear (ford english) westfeild which was running a 1.9cvh and is in the process of acquiring a 2l blacktop.

[Smitters]

There's a 140bhp Sigma just come up on Arsebook. It's £12.5k and seems insanely good value. If you like that sort of thing.

[BertBert]

dhutch said:

Dont see why not, ive got a live-rear (ford english) westfeild which was running a 1.9cvh and is in the process of acquiring a 2l blacktop.

I'm not saying you can't, it just doesn't strike me as a very sensible idea. Lots of effort to do to have an engine where the live axle is at it's limits,

[PTF]

Smitters said:

There's a 140bhp Sigma just come up on Arsebook. It's £12.5k and seems insanely good value. If you like that sort of thing.

I've got my eye on that. I'm still unsure about going down the caterham route (again), or looking at elises.

It looks like good value, but it's done a fair few miles on its original engine if it's had a lot of track use. Most race cars of that age will have had a new engine during that time.

[andy97]

PTF said:

Smitters said:

There's a 140bhp Sigma just come up on Arsebook. It's £12.5k and seems insanely good value. If you like that sort of thing.

I've got my eye on that. I'm still unsure about going down the caterham route (again), or looking at elises.

It looks like good value, but it's done a fair few miles on its original engine if it's had a lot of track use. Most race cars of that age will have had a new engine during that time.

Looks fantastic value, and i dont see why it would routinely need a new engine as long as it has been looked after and refreshed occasionally. At 140 bhp it is still not stressed for a 1.6litre in a 600kg car (&driver), even if it spends most of its life at high revs.

[Smitters]

andy97 said:

PTF said:

Smitters said:

There's a 140bhp Sigma just come up on Arsebook. It's £12.5k and seems insanely good value. If you like that sort of thing.

I've got my eye on that. I'm still unsure about going down the caterham route (again), or looking at elises.

It looks like good value, but it's done a fair few miles on its original engine if it's had a lot of track use. Most race cars of that age will have had a new engine during that time.

Looks fantastic value, and i dont see why it would routinely need a new engine as long as it has been looked after and refreshed occasionally. At 140 bhp it is still not stressed for a 1.6litre in a 600kg car (&driver), even if it spends most of its life at high revs.

Agree - I would have absolutely no qualms about taking on a routinely serviced 8k car. Just for the avoidance of doubt, I don't know the seller or the car either, so no agenda.

[DoubleD]

Smitters said:

andy97 said:

PTF said:

Smitters said:

There's a 140bhp Sigma just come up on Arsebook. It's £12.5k and seems insanely good value. If you like that sort of thing.

I've got my eye on that. I'm still unsure about going down the caterham route (again), or looking at elises.

It looks like good value, but it's done a fair few miles on its original engine if it's had a lot of track use. Most race cars of that age will have had a new engine during that time.

Looks fantastic value, and i dont see why it would routinely need a new engine as long as it has been looked after and refreshed occasionally. At 140 bhp it is still not stressed for a 1.6litre in a 600kg car (&driver), even if it spends most of its life at high revs.

Agree - I would have absolutely no qualms about taking on a routinely serviced 8k car. Just for the avoidance of doubt, I don't know the seller or the car either, so no agenda.

Is it not a road car engine?

Modern engines are designed to be used over thousands and thousands of miles with very little servicing.

A racing car engine is a very different matter though.