Wow, Lotus 7 Club's quiet ... how can we help it recover
Discussion
Smollet said:
I'd heard talk of mid 30s but it seems a lot was spent on basically not a lot.
Even so it sounds like a huge amount of money trying to fix something that wasn't broken. I think is so easy to keep signing up for the next upgrade whether it be the website, the car or the phone, maybe im a cheep skate, if it works don't fix it is my moto.apexcone said:
Even so it sounds like a huge amount of money trying to fix something that wasn't broken. I think is so easy to keep signing up for the next upgrade whether it be the website, the car or the phone, maybe im a cheep skate, if it works don't fix it is my moto.
The old website was dependent on just Barry. That's why it had to change. The whys and wherefores of its replacement are indeed up for debate, should one choose to prolong such a debate...
apexcone said:
Even so it sounds like a huge amount of money trying to fix something that wasn't broken. I think is so easy to keep signing up for the next upgrade whether it be the website, the car or the phone, maybe im a cheep skate, if it works don't fix it is my moto.
It was on old technology that would, at some point, have become unsupportable. As someone else has said it was probably only fixable by one person, Barry. It had multiple, separate, logons for all the particular areas. And wasn't all that easy to administer. They cost was primarily in integrating the membership functions into everything, giving a single sign on to everything.
You can argue all you like about it being a bit "gold plated" in this respect, but for what we got the price was reasonable. Very reasonable in fact. I know how much bespoke web dev costs.
apexcone said:
I seem to remember that for years the discussion raged about upgrading the L7C website. In some ways I can see the merits, but why try and fix something that isn't broken, its a bit like all the companies that have tried to improve on the Seven, as we all know most no good.
Except....they now run on Unleaded. They now have to pass emissions legislation. They no longer use bits from cars that don't exist. etc etc etc.If Caterham still ran cars that only ran unleaded, using parts that were very hard to find (i.e. expensive) and needed skills that were not as available.... that would be a bad business decision.
Same with the website. Under the skin it was hard to manage. Was hard to change and add new things. It probably wasn't as secure as a modern website (see what happened to Bookatrack).
You need to move with the times.
PurpleMeanie said:
Except....they now run on Unleaded. They now have to pass emissions legislation. They no longer use bits from cars that don't exist. etc etc etc.
If Caterham still ran cars that only ran unleaded, using parts that were very hard to find (i.e. expensive) and needed skills that were not as available.... that would be a bad business decision.
Same with the website. Under the skin it was hard to manage. Was hard to change and add new things. It probably wasn't as secure as a modern website (see what happened to Bookatrack).
You need to move with the times.
Point taken, but 30K If Caterham still ran cars that only ran unleaded, using parts that were very hard to find (i.e. expensive) and needed skills that were not as available.... that would be a bad business decision.
Same with the website. Under the skin it was hard to manage. Was hard to change and add new things. It probably wasn't as secure as a modern website (see what happened to Bookatrack).
You need to move with the times.
NuisanceFactor said:
PurpleMeanie said:
It was on old technology that would, at some point, have become unsupportable.
I understand that it had the same starting point as Pistonheads.Agreed - as previously discussed in these pastures.
You could get a large site with lots of whizzy looking stuff up and running for not a lot. Assuming you can do your own config.
But as soon as you want bespoke web development "behind the scenes" it starts to cost.
We did a site for a small Insurance Broker, hooking into the back end policy admin for roughly the same amount. 20% of it cost 80% of the budget. But it was the important 20%.
You could get a large site with lots of whizzy looking stuff up and running for not a lot. Assuming you can do your own config.
But as soon as you want bespoke web development "behind the scenes" it starts to cost.
We did a site for a small Insurance Broker, hooking into the back end policy admin for roughly the same amount. 20% of it cost 80% of the budget. But it was the important 20%.
framerateuk said:
30k won't go far on a large website build. If you don't understand the work involved, that's fine, but that's just how much these things cost.
Yes, but given the customer and their turnover a custom build like they have got was absolutely the wrong decision. A skinned phpbb/wordpress combo was absolutely the best option and would have cost significantly less. Given how poor the site is and the negative consumer feedback the best option at this point is still to abandon and rebuild with other tools which will encourage more users/members and be easily maintained and upgraded going forward.
GreigM said:
A skinned phpbb/wordpress combo was absolutely the best option and would have cost significantly less.
Only if it had plugins to do the admin, single sign on side. Otherwise you have to bespoke develop them, and you are into the same issue.
Changing the underlying tech may not change the cost, unless you can get an off the shelf function for club admin.
Now, that *might* be possible, Wordpress does a lot. But do you know that for sure ?
So very IT.
The general consensus is the new site is far from ideal from an end-user point of view, but let's not focus on that, let's talk about all the industry tech that the average user a) won't understand and b) will care about even less.
All the whizzy fandango flashy bits mean nothing if it doesn't bloody work (and by that I mean satisfy the needs and wants of the users, not "work" as in function correctly)
The biggest single problem was that nobody asked the members what they actually wanted. The new website came in 7 months behind schedule, was incredibly slow, didn't have the expected functionality, and what it did have didn't work correctly.
There was no testing of the new forum before its introduction, and requests to keep the old forum running until the problems had been resolved were ignored. Then any member who asked reasonable questions about what the hell was going on was labelled as an ungrateful b*stard - despite the fact that it was ordinary members who were funding it.
It's management Jim, but not as we know it!
There was no testing of the new forum before its introduction, and requests to keep the old forum running until the problems had been resolved were ignored. Then any member who asked reasonable questions about what the hell was going on was labelled as an ungrateful b*stard - despite the fact that it was ordinary members who were funding it.
It's management Jim, but not as we know it!
Mort7 said:
The biggest single problem was that nobody asked the members what they actually wanted. The new website came in 7 months behind schedule, was incredibly slow, didn't have the expected functionality, and what it did have didn't work correctly.
There was no testing of the new forum before its introduction, and requests to keep the old forum running until the problems had been resolved were ignored. Then any member who asked reasonable questions about what the hell was going on was labelled as an ungrateful b*stard - despite the fact that it was ordinary members who were funding it.
It's management Jim, but not as we know it!
Well said. I'm off at the end of the month so I'll have to find something else to moan about as that's what my criticisms about the forum's obvious shortcomings were classed as. Nothing has improved over the past couple of months so I presume what's there is there forever. There was no testing of the new forum before its introduction, and requests to keep the old forum running until the problems had been resolved were ignored. Then any member who asked reasonable questions about what the hell was going on was labelled as an ungrateful b*stard - despite the fact that it was ordinary members who were funding it.
It's management Jim, but not as we know it!
Still as most of the fun characters have gone elsewhere I can't see myself missing the forum.
PurpleMeanie said:
Only if it had plugins to do the admin, single sign on side.
Otherwise you have to bespoke develop them, and you are into the same issue.
Changing the underlying tech may not change the cost, unless you can get an off the shelf function for club admin.
Now, that *might* be possible, Wordpress does a lot. But do you know that for sure ?
Yes, all that is available. I've implemented it. Worst case scenario you need to develop a wordpress/phpbb plugin that manages the integration of the wordpress/forum and club admin side - not a big deal. Otherwise you have to bespoke develop them, and you are into the same issue.
Changing the underlying tech may not change the cost, unless you can get an off the shelf function for club admin.
Now, that *might* be possible, Wordpress does a lot. But do you know that for sure ?
GreigM said:
Yes, but given the customer and their turnover a custom build like they have got was absolutely the wrong decision. A skinned phpbb/wordpress combo was absolutely the best option and would have cost significantly less.
Given how poor the site is and the negative consumer feedback the best option at this point is still to abandon and rebuild with other tools which will encourage more users/members and be easily maintained and upgraded going forward.
Interesting comments Greig, do you you think that most of the issues now being faced could have been avoided had the management asked different questions. Given how poor the site is and the negative consumer feedback the best option at this point is still to abandon and rebuild with other tools which will encourage more users/members and be easily maintained and upgraded going forward.
Gassing Station | Caterham | Top of Page | What's New | My Stuff