Interesting R620 for sale!
Discussion
V7SLR said:
Nige, you been on the wine mate? 
Stu.
Not quite Stu, just having a bit of a light hearted laugh, something that seems to be sadly missing over on B C!Stu.
Bytw did you agree to get a new Blatchat website finally signed off and live, or will the MT take another 12 months to make a decision?
Andy Bell said:
anywaaaaayy back to topic...
It is disappointing that when they are doing marketing they are not engaging with existing customers, particularly those like nigelpugh7 who have history of known high end Caterhams. If I had to guess they are trying to appeal to the casual customer with the dashboard/switches like that.
However for something as mean as this which should only be on a track then it would make sense if you could spec the stack system (or comparable) out of the box. Guess its a tough balance between not changing and embracing change and with something this technically complicated/highly spec'd its hard to know where to go. I mean you would'nt purchase this for pootling about at slow speeds - with the usual caveat of more money than sense
I would like to see option of standard dash or more race suited dash to be made standard particular with how heavily its used on track across multiple race series. I imagine would not be too hard and would be nice to have a race spec'd dash fully integrated and looking nice
Thanks for coming back on to the original topic!It is disappointing that when they are doing marketing they are not engaging with existing customers, particularly those like nigelpugh7 who have history of known high end Caterhams. If I had to guess they are trying to appeal to the casual customer with the dashboard/switches like that.
However for something as mean as this which should only be on a track then it would make sense if you could spec the stack system (or comparable) out of the box. Guess its a tough balance between not changing and embracing change and with something this technically complicated/highly spec'd its hard to know where to go. I mean you would'nt purchase this for pootling about at slow speeds - with the usual caveat of more money than sense
I would like to see option of standard dash or more race suited dash to be made standard particular with how heavily its used on track across multiple race series. I imagine would not be too hard and would be nice to have a race spec'd dash fully integrated and looking nice
The 620R price list does show that the Aces Shift Lights are Standard, but there is not an option for the Stack Dash.
I bet if you asked for one you could get it though, can't see them saying no to many people looking to spend £50K+
mic said:
Not sure that the wiring harness from a 620 would be compatible with a Stack dash, apart from that IVA may be a problem these days as the display is in the wrong position.
That's a very good point Mic, had not thought that the wiring loom would not support the stack config!It's also interesting what you say about the IVA and the stack dash display being in the wrong place.
Out of interest they have not had a problem with the stack config on the IVA before, have the IVA regulations changed recently?
curley said:
I have a 620 r on order , I was told yesterday that I couldn't definitely NOT have a stack as the loom would not support it , Also there is no aces shift light .
What there is , In between the two main dials is a gear indicator that also doubles as a shift light , have asked for photos but sounds an intriguing use of a single unit to perform multiple functions , less weight !
As. Far as noise is concerned I am told that the delivery may be marginally delayed because the solution will be an engineered one and not just a Blo££y big exhaust . Read into that what you will but it looks as if they are looking at the induction side as well .
CC have been pretty good at keeping me abreast of developments , I am an existing customer . I think when you have to staff up a show you need additional resources and some of those are co opted for the duration . Speak to the right people and you get a sensible response . Despite his elevated position the group chief executive has even replied to my emails about fairly mundane ( to him ) matters
Interesting, did they tell you why the current 620r price list shows the shift lights as standard, or do they mean the one you mention on the gear indicator?What there is , In between the two main dials is a gear indicator that also doubles as a shift light , have asked for photos but sounds an intriguing use of a single unit to perform multiple functions , less weight !
As. Far as noise is concerned I am told that the delivery may be marginally delayed because the solution will be an engineered one and not just a Blo££y big exhaust . Read into that what you will but it looks as if they are looking at the induction side as well .
CC have been pretty good at keeping me abreast of developments , I am an existing customer . I think when you have to staff up a show you need additional resources and some of those are co opted for the duration . Speak to the right people and you get a sensible response . Despite his elevated position the group chief executive has even replied to my emails about fairly mundane ( to him ) matters
Just checked again, the price list actually says it includes sequential shift lights?
Perhaps we had assumed that meant the ACES shift lights, and not the other ones mentioned?
Also want did CC actually say was the reason that you could not have a Stack dash? Just the wiring, or the fact that they don't want to supply the Stack unit all together?
I suspect that the R600 race cars wiring loom supports the stack dash, so why would the 620R also not support it?
Perhaps we had assumed that meant the ACES shift lights, and not the other ones mentioned?
Also want did CC actually say was the reason that you could not have a Stack dash? Just the wiring, or the fact that they don't want to supply the Stack unit all together?
I suspect that the R600 race cars wiring loom supports the stack dash, so why would the 620R also not support it?
TeflonT said:
The gated alerts that are offered by the Stack make them worth every penny. Saved my engine several times when I had dry sump belt failures.
I cannot see why anyone suggests they are hard to read.
I would have to agree with Arnie here. The ability to set alarms is one of the great features of the Stack unit.I cannot see why anyone suggests they are hard to read.
I do wish the alarm for the low fuel level was not so sporadic though, mine seems to go off way to early,then come on and off very frequently, but I suspect that most of that is down to fuel surge in the tank!
I do like traditional gauges as shown in the r620 at the start of my original post too though, but do they have the ability to set threshold alarms too?
curley said:
I have a 620 r on order , I was told yesterday that I couldn't definitely NOT have a stack as the loom would not support it , Also there is no aces shift light .
What there is , In between the two main dials is a gear indicator that also doubles as a shift light , have asked for photos but sounds an intriguing use of a single unit to perform multiple functions , less weight !
As. Far as noise is concerned I am told that the delivery may be marginally delayed because the solution will be an engineered one and not just a Blo££y big exhaust . Read into that what you will but it looks as if they are looking at the induction side as well .
CC have been pretty good at keeping me abreast of developments , I am an existing customer . I think when you have to staff up a show you need additional resources and some of those are co opted for the duration . Speak to the right people and you get a sensible response . Despite his elevated position the group chief executive has even replied to my emails about fairly mundane ( to him ) matters
Hi Curley,What there is , In between the two main dials is a gear indicator that also doubles as a shift light , have asked for photos but sounds an intriguing use of a single unit to perform multiple functions , less weight !
As. Far as noise is concerned I am told that the delivery may be marginally delayed because the solution will be an engineered one and not just a Blo££y big exhaust . Read into that what you will but it looks as if they are looking at the induction side as well .
CC have been pretty good at keeping me abreast of developments , I am an existing customer . I think when you have to staff up a show you need additional resources and some of those are co opted for the duration . Speak to the right people and you get a sensible response . Despite his elevated position the group chief executive has even replied to my emails about fairly mundane ( to him ) matters
Thanks for the info, it's good to hear from someone who actually has an R620 on order.
Out of interest what gauges have CC told you that your R620 will be supplied with?
Will it be fitted with gauges that are shown on the car in my original post or the gauges that we have seen on the two press cars?
mic said:
The gear change indicator is between the top of the tacho and speedo. Don't think I've said Aces wont be used though.
Thanks Mic,Edited by mic on Sunday 26th January 15:42
Sorry I had assumed it was you who commented that CC were not going to supply Aces shift lights with the R620!
It was actually Curley who mentions in his post above, regarding his order for the R620, when CC told him his car would not be supplied with the ACEs shift lights.
Unless you know something otherwise of course!
curley said:
Ok , to be clear , based on what i have seen the instruments are as follows , left to right
Fuel gauge , reads empty at about 4 o'clock and full at about 2 o'clock , half full at 9 o'clock last 1/8th of a tank shows against a red tab.
Temperature gauge , same arc with 80 degrees at the 9 o'clock position ,first portion up to 50 degrees against a blue background
Oil pressure , same arc with 4 bar at the 9 o'clock position , below one bar and above 7bar against a red background
Rev counter 0 to 9000 scale with 0 at approx 4 o'clock 4500 at 9 o'clock and 9000 at 2 o'clock
Speedo 0 to 160 mph scale with 0 at about 7.30 o'clock and 160 on the corresponding 4.30 position .80mph at 12 noon
In-between the two main dials at the top is a circular unit about 25mm diameter which i am told shows the gear in use and then doubles as a change up light .( why i said no aces change up lights )
Dials are black background , needles yellow , all markings and labels are white except where indicated above ( and the secondary KPH markings on the speedo which are yellow ) ..The rev counter and speedo look to be larger than the standard CC ones in use on the other new cars .
The speedo has mileage shown on a screen at 6 o'clock and a trip button below .
All subject to change no doubt !!
Hey Curley,Fuel gauge , reads empty at about 4 o'clock and full at about 2 o'clock , half full at 9 o'clock last 1/8th of a tank shows against a red tab.
Temperature gauge , same arc with 80 degrees at the 9 o'clock position ,first portion up to 50 degrees against a blue background
Oil pressure , same arc with 4 bar at the 9 o'clock position , below one bar and above 7bar against a red background
Rev counter 0 to 9000 scale with 0 at approx 4 o'clock 4500 at 9 o'clock and 9000 at 2 o'clock
Speedo 0 to 160 mph scale with 0 at about 7.30 o'clock and 160 on the corresponding 4.30 position .80mph at 12 noon
In-between the two main dials at the top is a circular unit about 25mm diameter which i am told shows the gear in use and then doubles as a change up light .( why i said no aces change up lights )
Dials are black background , needles yellow , all markings and labels are white except where indicated above ( and the secondary KPH markings on the speedo which are yellow ) ..The rev counter and speedo look to be larger than the standard CC ones in use on the other new cars .
The speedo has mileage shown on a screen at 6 o'clock and a trip button below .
All subject to change no doubt !!
Thanks for the update.
Great to hear what your nice shiny new R620 will be supplied with!
From what Mic was saying, he seems to imply that the Aces lights might be supplied when the R620 models are shipped to new customers?
Did CC also give you that impression?
Could we know the full Spec of your car, including the colour, and when will you be collecting in too please?
Of course we need to see lots of pictures when you do pick it up too,,thanks!
Toaster said:
Apologies for bringing this up to the top of the list however, http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_embedd... if this was the development car it has..............a stack dash and R500 layout.
Thanks for the link.But sadly I can now confirm after speaking directly with CC re the 620r, that it is as a large amount of cure t owners have feared.
This is a guaranteed fact there will be no stack dash for the R620, and no ACEs shift flights either.
I am not allowed to divulge the reasons why these production decisions have been made, but I think we all know the reasons why, and the direction CC under questionable leadership are set in stone too.
For me, it spells the end of what was a very special and unquie mark, that many if us will never see again.
Very sadly too,,it also denotes the end of my Caterham ownership, and the end of a long and enjoyable story of ownership
I am lucky that my own car has lots of provenance, and lots of valuable offers too.
So once my car has gone, it will be the end of my Caterham ownership .
Orange Blackbird said:
So your giving up on Caterham because of the instruments they use
Nope not really giving up on Caterham, I think I have been pretty loyal to the brand actually.I just find that some decisions they have made seem rather more related to what profit they make out of their cars, more than what people really want to buy.
For lots of reasons I don't think I will be buying any new model Caterham, mostly because the top of the range cars are now completely out of my reach financially, and a lot of other people too I suspect!
I am sure they will continue to seek many more of the lower specced models, and I hope they do too.
When I decide to sell my current R500, I just can't see me actually buying another new Caterham, but that is also down to my own change in circumstances too.
k20erham said:
We have all decided upon our route paid our money and enjoyed our cars,as many will know a SAdev is around £6k a solid 240bhp and 180 lb/ft hub figures is 10/15k if you build it your self then bolt on a set of 3 way Penskes at around 4k and a starter kit, oh and some profit then 50k seems a fair price,I was truely shocked when I learned of the cost of my car when it was built new in 98, its our choice, or it should be, but sadly not so with the 620,
Hey Sam,Can you post some pictures of your caterham please?
In particular i would love to see the engine and box installation.
I am also really interested to see the Penske shocks you have, not seen those on a Caterham before.
Thanks,
Nigel.
Guys,
Thanks very much for all the comments, but ultimately it's down to each individuals personal,preference.
I did not start this thread as a way to to have a pop at CC, as you know I have spent over £150k minimum on all,brand new CC cars.
All of your points are very valid, and CC really should think more about how to seek to new and existing customers too.
My real point in my original post was down to what you actually get for your £55k spend.
And to me it seems you get the usual top of the range CC car.
But it also seems a coat cutting excercise is also in play here too.
Once again, I don't want to chuck any company or individual under the bus,but suffice to say previous R300, R400, and R500 all had stack dash( some as an option) some standard, and aces shift lights too.
Now it seems these will no longer be supplied, and I have to say my source tells me it's for no other reason than the increase in costs from the two respective manufactures.
As has been raised by other parties, when we are at £54K plus for a weekend toy, there are lots of options to that type of buyer, and most of them cater to the fact that the buyer would expect a full,load of branded high end accessories included.
I am not sure, but to me it feels like CC are now. Rey aware of cost per build, and I don't personally believe they are now worth what they cost.
Please shoot me down in flames, but this is the reason I won't be buying a brand new 620R!
Thanks very much for all the comments, but ultimately it's down to each individuals personal,preference.
I did not start this thread as a way to to have a pop at CC, as you know I have spent over £150k minimum on all,brand new CC cars.
All of your points are very valid, and CC really should think more about how to seek to new and existing customers too.
My real point in my original post was down to what you actually get for your £55k spend.
And to me it seems you get the usual top of the range CC car.
But it also seems a coat cutting excercise is also in play here too.
Once again, I don't want to chuck any company or individual under the bus,but suffice to say previous R300, R400, and R500 all had stack dash( some as an option) some standard, and aces shift lights too.
Now it seems these will no longer be supplied, and I have to say my source tells me it's for no other reason than the increase in costs from the two respective manufactures.
As has been raised by other parties, when we are at £54K plus for a weekend toy, there are lots of options to that type of buyer, and most of them cater to the fact that the buyer would expect a full,load of branded high end accessories included.
I am not sure, but to me it feels like CC are now. Rey aware of cost per build, and I don't personally believe they are now worth what they cost.
Please shoot me down in flames, but this is the reason I won't be buying a brand new 620R!
mic said:
Not really sure you can say the 620r has been done with a cost cutting basis. Most R500 Duratecs' were in the £50,000 area. With the 620R you get a better engine, 40bhp +, a superior gearbox and clutch assembly, better seats, carbon interior panels, improved cooling system, dry cell battery etc. I'm sure a little extra on a Stack dash would not make a great difference. Remember IVA has a large impact on cars these days.
Thanks Mic, i certainly agree with on the £50k range too!Out of interest what is different on the 620R engine, aside from the obvious supercharger? Has the crank and other engine internals been strengthened even further? On the CC website it just states,,we took the R500 engine and supercharged it?
Also did not know that the clutch was different, or that it had items like carbon interior panels or a dry cell battery either?
I am sure the little extra cost of the Stack dash would not make a difference either? Hence the reason lots of us are questioning why it's not standard, or even offered as an option?
And on the IVA front, R400 and R500's have been passing the new stricter IVA for several years, with no problem,so I don't think that is valid.
I do think the rumour that many if of have heard, that Stack increased their cost price to CC, and would not move on the price,,hence forcing the hand of CC to look for an alternative, and with the quality issues of the Stack units,,and slow repair times,,I suspect that was the nail in the coffin for Stack with CC.
Murph7355 said:
To be honest Nigel I think Caterham have always been acutely aware of what the individual parts cost etc and how to make mark up on them.
Equally I don't think they've ever been worth what they cost objectively. But subjectively we all know very different.
It sounds like you're falling out of love with the marque for whatever reason. It happens. Just roll with it.
But I can't believe you wouldn't buy a 620R just because of the lack of Stack dash. Upgraditis is easily cured even on "top of the range" cars. If you're able (and willing) to spunk 55k on a Caterham, dropping an extra 2k-5k after you've bought it to put the variety of instruments you want in front of you on it hardly seems like a major biggie? Just take out the dash and ensure the changes are fully reversible. Then take the Gucci dash with you when you buy your next one.
(btw, I like my stack dash but it's not the last word in legibility.....especially when half the LCD panel goes tits up and the face of the instrument mists).
Thanks, no it's not that I am falling out of love with Caterhams at all.Equally I don't think they've ever been worth what they cost objectively. But subjectively we all know very different.
It sounds like you're falling out of love with the marque for whatever reason. It happens. Just roll with it.
But I can't believe you wouldn't buy a 620R just because of the lack of Stack dash. Upgraditis is easily cured even on "top of the range" cars. If you're able (and willing) to spunk 55k on a Caterham, dropping an extra 2k-5k after you've bought it to put the variety of instruments you want in front of you on it hardly seems like a major biggie? Just take out the dash and ensure the changes are fully reversible. Then take the Gucci dash with you when you buy your next one.
(btw, I like my stack dash but it's not the last word in legibility.....especially when half the LCD panel goes tits up and the face of the instrument mists).
It's just that I can no longer justify a Caterham that in reality is going to cost close to £57K, then adding a not standard item at several thousands, plus the fact that once added the appeal of it being a factory standard car,,then it's all going against the reasons for buying 620R in the first place,namely that it's supposed to be the very best of the best Caterham, and should have all the very best options as standard too!
I did wish them good luck selling 620r models, I would buy one if I could afford it tomorrow, sadly I can no longer stretch my toy budget that far!
dino ferrana said:
I think IVA is a bit of a movable feast though is it not? New tester starts at the local station and starts failing things on a whim, then Caterham have to change parts to avoid constant retests etc. If they were having issues with cars passing with Stack (pure speculation) then that is a big issue. You can't just swap instruments in an out like you can with an FIA bar due to the different dash configuration.
A very valid point, although I am not sure what even an inexperienced IVA tester would actually find to fail on a Stack unit?Can't see it being sharp edges or radius's,,perhaps the small display of the MPH being obscured by the speedo?
I seem to recall even standard dials also having that issue at some IVA stations too though?
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