Corner weighting
Discussion
bse said:
Finchy172 said:
I myself have a R400, which is setup my way and beleive me on track days other CSR's and duratecs struggle to stay with the R.
...and how much do you think that is to do with the set-up and how much the driver?? My view would be that it is more to do with personal taste and perhaps what you've been used to...but also the amount of difference, in terms of lap/sprint times, it makes is much smaller than is being suggested here.
...and with regards to the 'well known specialist near Brands Hatch', I've spent plenty of laps chasing cars and records set by caterhams that he has set-up, so I wouldn't be critical of his work!
Matching the drivers style to that of what he wants the car to do is the single most important factor, especially with caterham racing.
Having the car setup correctly whether its for road or trackday or race use should be top of every customers list.
Freestyle, TFM, Fauldsport, Hyperion all have a good name when it comes to race car setup and preperation.
There are many more companies that had a reputation or still do but in my view the so called setup guru's are no longer part of that team.
I was amazed at the number of academy and roadsport drivers that dont get their cars setup untill part way through the season.
A race car needs to be setup for each race weekend, and generally they are also corner weighted at the circuit due to the difference between team and circuit scales.
bse said:
...and with regards to the 'well known specialist near Brands Hatch', I've spent plenty of laps chasing cars and records set by caterhams that he has set-up, so I wouldn't be critical of his work!
I was making a tongue in cheek reference to how his approach (seemingly to balance the fronts according to the scales print outs I have) is at odds to most race engineers setup apprach, namely to optimise the diagonals. Although, this may be a quirk of Caterham chassis'.I think Gary obviously knows his stuff, however, if I want my car setup on the diagonals method, this would appear to differ from his chosen approach, so I will go elsewhere for the setup.
I'll set ride heights (with 15mm rake), then do the corner weighting, then recheck the ride heights, etc, etc.
My inital post was to see how people set their cars up, not how specialist A or B sets customers cars up.
Many thanks.
I went up to Freestyle last week and had a set up done on my Academy car for this year. Went to Brands on Sunday and the car was very good round the circuit. Much better than before. Will play with a few more settings as i go on, but Gary was excellent. Nice bunch of guys who know their stuff and i would definitely recommend them. The car feels so much more stable and flat.
Really interesting discussion! I see we still dont have an answer to the comparison of an equal fronts and matched diagonal. I use matched diagonals, but dont know why :-/
would like to see an answer from those that disagree with SimonYs approach.
I think a lot of academy drivers dont bother with setup until 1/2 way through the season as the talent is so varied. As someone said, you need to be able to notice the difference. When I started in the academy, I could hardly tell if the wheels were on!! I'm only a little bit better now!!! When you've seen someone go 2 secs faster in your own car, that they've never driven and tell you the setup is why the gap wasnt 3 secs, you tend to focus on the biggest gap first.
would like to see an answer from those that disagree with SimonYs approach.
I think a lot of academy drivers dont bother with setup until 1/2 way through the season as the talent is so varied. As someone said, you need to be able to notice the difference. When I started in the academy, I could hardly tell if the wheels were on!! I'm only a little bit better now!!! When you've seen someone go 2 secs faster in your own car, that they've never driven and tell you the setup is why the gap wasnt 3 secs, you tend to focus on the biggest gap first.
on a 7 type car, with the driver sitting over the right rear wheel it is possible to get equal ride heights and equal fronts, but there will be an inequality across the rear axle.
If you set equal diagonals - you'll have an inequality across the front AND rear axles on a 7 type car, theres a theoretical advantage in cornering and a disadvantage in braking.
I seem to remember this being discussed every year and the same disparity in answers. Personally I like being able to use the brakes. Other people will have different views.
If you set equal diagonals - you'll have an inequality across the front AND rear axles on a 7 type car, theres a theoretical advantage in cornering and a disadvantage in braking.
I seem to remember this being discussed every year and the same disparity in answers. Personally I like being able to use the brakes. Other people will have different views.
racecardoctor said:
Stuart gets my vote, equal fronts on a caterham
The point I was trying to make is that if you just say 'I do matched fronts' or 'I match crossweights' or 'I do something different' and then just head for those figures, with any weight of driver in any type of Caterham you will only sometimes get good results. I try to take more of a considered approach to put the weight in the best places for that particular driver and car.racecardoctor said:
on a 7 type car, with the driver sitting over the right rear wheel it is possible to get equal ride heights and equal fronts, but there will be an inequality across the rear axle.
If you set equal diagonals - you'll have an inequality across the front AND rear axles on a 7 type car, theres a theoretical advantage in cornering and a disadvantage in braking.
Only in weights, as you can always have the front ride heights the same. And as I'm sure you know the inequalities can be used to your advantage.If you set equal diagonals - you'll have an inequality across the front AND rear axles on a 7 type car, theres a theoretical advantage in cornering and a disadvantage in braking.
racecardoctor said:
I seem to remember this being discussed every year and the same disparity in answers. Personally I like being able to use the brakes. Other people will have different views.
Is certainly an interesting subject. Btw do you always brake in a straight line?Edited by SimonY on Thursday 24th January 22:00
set the springs at the same position on the front dampers - count the threads (after measuring the springs), then set the rear rake and equalise the threads on the rear dampers then add 4 extra threads on the drivers side rear damper (increasing the ride height to account for the driver)
bet you wont be far off
bet you wont be far off
Dave J said:
set the springs at the same position on the front dampers - count the threads (after measuring the springs), then set the rear rake and equalise the threads on the rear dampers then add 4 extra threads on the drivers side rear damper (increasing the ride height to account for the driver)
bet you wont be far off
Or use some digital scales and do the job slightly more accurately bet you wont be far off
I agree that the rule of thumb method above won't have you miles out. Dave J said:
set the springs at the same position on the front dampers - count the threads (after measuring the springs), then set the rear rake and equalise the threads on the rear dampers then add 4 extra threads on the drivers side rear damper (increasing the ride height to account for the driver)
bet you wont be far off
Ok i have just had a go at this. to get down to the 140mm regs but i set it to 145 to allow for problems, i had to wind the spring right down to the last thread and its still a bit highr than 145mm. the rear is now at 175mm.bet you wont be far off
The car has done 750 miles now and just done a track day on saturday. will it really settle that much more that i will need to wind the spring heights back up?
(sorry for the poor grammer, i cant get my head around it properly to talk about it properly yet.)
_TC said:
Ok i have just had a go at this. to get down to the 140mm regs but i set it to 145 to allow for problems, i had to wind the spring right down to the last thread and its still a bit highr than 145mm. the rear is now at 175mm.
The car has done 750 miles now and just done a track day on saturday. will it really settle that much more that i will need to wind the spring heights back up?
I assume you are checking the ride height with the driver in the car (not easy to do on your own!)? The regs are a minimum for car, driver, fuel and any other kit you will run in race mode.The car has done 750 miles now and just done a track day on saturday. will it really settle that much more that i will need to wind the spring heights back up?
Edited by MarchHare on Thursday 7th February 13:21
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