How to drive an R500 D properly...

[fergus]

thequietone said:

I'm with a few other guys on this....most of the speed is in the car, not the driver, if you see what I mean. Lots and lots of time slipping away but that's not what it's always about. Cracking viewing though!

The ring is a bit like a hillclimb, in that a fast car does not a quick lap make! You need to be able to string the corners together well to go quickly there. Pointing and squirting is what the UK registered bikes do, and hold everyone up (they seem to forget they have mirrors)...

[subirg]

thequietone said:

I'm with a few other guys on this....most of the speed is in the car, not the driver, if you see what I mean. Lots and lots of time slipping away but that's not what it's always about. Cracking viewing though!

Sorry - wrong. Just plain wrong. At the Ring a fast car in duff hands will be lucky to get below 9 minutes. People consider themselves to be pretty good when they can crack 8.30. This guy is doing 7.36. I guess you just won't get it until you've been there and had a go for yourself - the Ring is a very unique track. It's not like your typical 2 min race circuit. Apart from the basic issue of having to learn the lines on over 140 corners, the change of elevation is quite something, the track is narrow as hell, it is rare to find all of it dry, traffic is a constant issue, bumps seem strategically placed to be at the most precarious places, and there is about 1 foot of runoff at most of the deadly corners... It's not like driving some diluted F1 track where going off has no major consequences. We all agree there are a few more seconds to be had from driving a neater line, but I doubt you'd get more than 10 - 15s improvement - and at the Ring to be that close to optimum is mighty.

[JeffC]

I thought it was a good commited drive and a lot of the oversteer looked like it was to combat understeer which I have to do on track when on cr500s! from my experience in dry conditions a set of kumho v70 /ao48s or 888 tyres on that car would see a much quicker lap time!

[thequietone]

subirg said:

thequietone said:

I'm with a few other guys on this....most of the speed is in the car, not the driver, if you see what I mean. Lots and lots of time slipping away but that's not what it's always about. Cracking viewing though!

Sorry - wrong. Just plain wrong. At the Ring a fast car in duff hands will be lucky to get below 9 minutes. People consider themselves to be pretty good when they can crack 8.30. This guy is doing 7.36. I guess you just won't get it until you've been there and had a go for yourself - the Ring is a very unique track. It's not like your typical 2 min race circuit. Apart from the basic issue of having to learn the lines on over 140 corners, the change of elevation is quite something, the track is narrow as hell, it is rare to find all of it dry, traffic is a constant issue, bumps seem strategically placed to be at the most precarious places, and there is about 1 foot of runoff at most of the deadly corners... It's not like driving some diluted F1 track where going off has no major consequences. We all agree there are a few more seconds to be had from driving a neater line, but I doubt you'd get more than 10 - 15s improvement - and at the Ring to be that close to optimum is mighty.

I didn't say it was a slow lap, just that I can see time slipping away and, being able to run within 8 secs of his time BTG in R400D I do know all about the place. My comments were not meant to be derogatory or inflamatory, nor am I a self proclaimed 'Ringmeister like some on here. Like someone said earlier - he knows which way the circuit goes but there's lots more in the car. Fun? Yes. Committed? Fairly. Spectacular? Certainly. A great advert for Caterham? Well, we can all see how much fun it was cant we. So instead of all this Nordschleife chest puffing, lets just watch the vid again, give a nod of approval to the driver for sharing this with us (even though reading this he probably wishes he hadn't!), chuckle at the thought of some 'oppo in the Karrusell and start saving for that R500

[The Wookie]

fergus said:

The Wookie said:

He's clearly got some bottle, but meh.

Most of the sideways moments are self inflicted though, it's not just the car/tyres

surely, by definition, unless you unexpectedly hit a slippy patch, all sideways moments are self inflicted?:scractchchin:

My point was, it wasn't the setup and it wasn't the tyres, it was his aggressive inputs unsettling the car.

I'd also disagree with 'smooth looks fast on video, but it isn't necessarily quick', I'd say it's the opposite. That LOOKS great, but it isn't.

Also, I personally think that 'forget about UK circuits, any racing experience you have etc etc its the ring', is a bit silly. It's like any other bumpy circuit with no runoff, only longer. Yes I haven't been there so in true PH tradition I know nothing, but different physics don't apply and you can see that he's a track day warrior, not a racer.

That's not to say that he's not a good driver and he didn't set a good time, it's to say that it's a reasonable lap but not a stunning achievement. Hence my original statement of 'he's got some bottle, but meh'

[pw75]

Bedazzled said:

Hmmm... lots of people claiming they can drive it better from their armchair, but not a single video posted to back it up. Says everything really. Personally I enjoyed watching the video but IMHO two cars shouldn't be racing like that on a track-day, regardless of skill levels.

all it says is you can't read.

Not one post saying that anyone can do better. Show me where anyone has said to the contrary.

Edited by pw75 on Saturday 31st October 13:35

[pw75]

Bedazzled said:

430scuderia1 said:

the porsche should really have nailed him.

Neads a better driver in the caterham if you ask me........i will post my vids up in the snow

post #2.... lol

so lots is now one...?

[pw75]

well done, you've done me all end up there chief.

[sam919]

Entertaining video, A few good comments/ structered, but mainly pathetic playground nonsense, sad.

[SimonY]

^^^ Chief thread analyst ^^^

Maybe next time you could introduce ratings, and some pointers for specific users to improve their standard of posting.

Edited by SimonY on Sunday 1st November 00:08

[sam919]

Behold another witty comment.

[Incorrigible]

Any idea what speed hat's topping out at (on the track)

[jackal]

looks a bit ragged/overdriven but also looks fast IMO...
and clearly IS fast with that sort of time


I also think as others have said that the oversteer is partially a function of the setup and that this chap probably likes to drive through understeer and manhandle the car quite a bit... all comes down to personal taste

would love to post a little R400 Challenge video I have as a counterpoint (showing quicker, smoother driving) but not sure if i'm allowed

[ForzaGilles]

Incorrigible said:

Any idea what speed hat's topping out at (on the track)

145-150 I would think.

[Incorrigible]

ForzaGilles said:

Incorrigible said:

Any idea what speed hat's topping out at (on the track)

145-150 I would think.

Any advance on 150

[ForzaGilles]

Incorrigible said:

ForzaGilles said:

Incorrigible said:

Any idea what speed hat's topping out at (on the track)

145-150 I would think.

Any advance on 150

He'd be hitting the rev limiter at more than about 150.

[The Wookie]

Incorrigible said:

Any idea what speed hat's topping out at (on the track)

C400 would do 145 with a tow, mate. I'd imagine a 500 would be less in clear air with a screen and headlights

[James.S]

fergus said:

thequietone said:

I'm with a few other guys on this....most of the speed is in the car, not the driver, if you see what I mean. Lots and lots of time slipping away but that's not what it's always about. Cracking viewing though!

The ring is a bit like a hillclimb, in that a fast car does not a quick lap make! You need to be able to string the corners together well to go quickly there. Pointing and squirting is what the UK registered bikes do, and hold everyone up (they seem to forget they have mirrors)...

Rubbish, the priciples to a quick lap are the same no matter what circuit you are at and i do not understand why camber changes and run off are issues. They are the same for everyone and they are the same for every lap.

Unlike moisture.....the chap does Spa in the damp and here you can see the weaker points to his style are magnified massively. I don't mind putting up some wet laps around Spa for comparision. PW75 can you assist fella?

[fergus]

James.S said:

fergus said:

thequietone said:

I'm with a few other guys on this....most of the speed is in the car, not the driver, if you see what I mean. Lots and lots of time slipping away but that's not what it's always about. Cracking viewing though!

The ring is a bit like a hillclimb, in that a fast car does not a quick lap make! You need to be able to string the corners together well to go quickly there. Pointing and squirting is what the UK registered bikes do, and hold everyone up (they seem to forget they have mirrors)...

Rubbish, the priciples to a quick lap are the same no matter what circuit you are at and i do not understand why camber changes and run off are issues. They are the same for everyone and they are the same for every lap.

Unlike moisture.....the chap does Spa in the damp and here you can see the weaker points to his style are magnified massively. I don't mind putting up some wet laps around Spa for comparision. PW75 can you assist fella?

James. Been to the 'Ring?

Agreed that to get a quick lap, everything must come together, but there are few UK circuits that I can think of where the 1st corner affects the exit speed of the 3rd corner for example (other than the maggotts/beckets complex at slitherstone).... Several corners are also blind, unlike most UK circuits...

FFS - the link was put up as a bit of fun to show a relatively committed lap at the 'Ring. It wasn't an illustration of driving finesse or the perfect line.

[willr]

Come on, give the guy some credit - he makes a trackday in a caterham look like fun, even if he doesn't drive "properly".