RE: Caterham Superlight R500

[ShawSpeed]

Sorry to disappoint folks but our Duratec engine which was referred to earlier is 269bhp at the flywheel not the wheels. Also the picture posted by Dinkel is of a 1.6 Ford Sigma engine which we have running at 220bhp at the flywheel. The Duratec is a remarkable engine with heaps of torque. Our 230bhp demonstrator had no trouble keeping up with R500 Caterhams at Anglelsey on Saturday.

[dinkel]

ShawSpeed said:

Sorry to disappoint folks but our Duratec engine which was referred to earlier is 269bhp at the flywheel not the wheels. Also the picture posted by Dinkel is of a 1.6 Ford Sigma engine which we have running at 220bhp at the flywheel. The Duratec is a remarkable engine with heaps of torque. Our 230bhp demonstrator had no trouble keeping up with R500 Caterhams at Anglelsey on Saturday.

220 out of 1.6! great work and must be a real screamer . . . Please post a full-dressed 2.3 pic. I found these stunners
Dear Seven Enthusiast:

"We are pleased to announce our new Duratec engine program. This motor offers better performance on HP and Torque as well as being considerably lighter. We will have power from 200 Hp to 300 HP. Please contact us for more details. This motor is in addition to our Zetec program and will be offered for any conversion requested."

[ShawSpeed]

220bhp 1.6 revs to 8250, we also have a 200bhp engine which revs to 8000. A derivative of the engine was used in the Ford Puma rally cars which gave close to 240bhp with steel cranks and rods and over 9000rpm

[rubystone]

So imppressive Shawspeed the Duratec seems to be the way to go - when I come to build my ultimate 7 in a couple of years I know what engine I'll be putting in it!

Just how much is a 220bhp engine though? - I've heard upwards of £5k quoted, which sounds reasonable given the cost of an equivalent K (£11k minimum?) and the fact that a base 2.0 150 bhp Duratec is circa £1500 off the shelf.

[dinkel]

Also consider a K20A

[rubystone]

...but they're knocking on the door of £10k in a Caterham aren't they? Plus a Duratec's got to be a cheaper engine to replace if it goes bang I would have thought?

[dinkel]

rubystone said:

...but they're knocking on the door of £10k in a Caterham aren't they? Plus a Duratec's got to be a cheaper engine to replace if it goes bang I would have thought?

A Honda does not go bang . . . check Spoon setups . . .

[MikeE]

rubystone said:

Just how much is a 220bhp engine though? - I've heard upwards of £5k quoted, which sounds reasonable given the cost of an equivalent K (£11k minimum?) and the fact that a base 2.0 150 bhp Duratec is circa £1500 off the shelf.

Putting a 220bhp Duratec in a Caterham won't leave you much (if any) change from £10K (£11K for the 2.3l 250 bhp Duratec)

Then start adding dry sump, gearbox etc and your up to £12K (13K for 2.3l).

[ShawSpeed]

We can do a kit to fit to your donor engine for 230bhp at £4793 inc VAT with dry sump and pump. The only extras you will need are engine mounts,a silencer for the exhaust system and a dry sump tank and pipes. If you allow £1500 for a new donor engine you are way short of the £10-11000 figures quoted. We can do a 270bhp kit from £5783 inc VAT.

[MikeE]

so does that include the following necessary to get it into a Caterham:

flywheel
clutch
throttle bodies
water rail
alternator and mounting
ECU
wiring loom
radiator
4 to 2 to 1 exhaust
labour to build engine
plus vat?

if it does it's a bargain

[rubystone]

Mike, TBH I was just costing the engine plus just the speciliast elements to fit a Duratec in a Caterham (engine mounts, bellhousing etc). After all, if you are starting from scratch, whatever engine you'd go for you'd have to buy an ECU, TBs, exhaust, radiator and so on. The R500 engine alone is £11k or thereabouts from Minister. I think this is just for the engine, no ancilliaries.

I'd like to see Jon's answer to your question - his prices seem very reasonable to me. As a guide Minister have been known to sell rebuilt VHPDs for just under £5k (no guarantees with them though!).

[MikeE]

Rubystone,

You don't need to convince me that given the choice of a 230bhp K-series or a 230bhp Duratec the Duratec is the way to go

I was just saying I don't believe you can get a 230bhp Duratec installed in a Caterham for much less than £10K. I've costed up the following sources:

1. Raceline,
2. Mountune,
3. Minister,
4. Ammo @ RaceCo,
5. Jeff Wilson Racing

...and all came out at roughly the same figure. It's OK saying you can get the engine for £X but it's all the ancilliary stuff that really adds up.

Having said that I'd be happy to be proved wrong if ShawSpeed wants to quote an all in price for a 230bhp 2.0l, dry sumped installation.

cheers,
Mike

[ShawSpeed]

I have sent your price Mike and I belive we can substantially beat the £10k barrier

see www.totalkitcar.com/tkc_article_569.shtml

[rubystone]

Crickey Mike you have been around! If you've tapped up Dave Mountain then you will have covered off the Graham Hathaway route then, although of course he'll be quoting Jack Rousch's prices now....

Shawspeed do seem to offer something worth investigating then, if the price does indeed include ECU, exhaust, water rail blanking etc.

[MikeE]

OK the R400's ordered from Caterham, due for delivery 1st week in June, and today I've ordered a Raceline 225bhp 2.0l dry sumped Duratec and 5 speed BHG close ratio gearbox, now I just need to wait another two months before all the bits arrive

So the final spec is:

R400 with:
Uprated master cylinder
SLR Cage
Plumbed in extinguisher (in boot)
Battery master switch
Carbon Kevlar Tillet Seats Upgrade
Carbon Interchangeable aero screen
Carbon Mirrors
Carbon centre mirror
Tonneue & half doors
Full carbon (nose, wings, dash etc)
Full stack dash and data logging
Programmable Sequential Shift Up Lights (R500)
Polished Alloy fuel filler
Small (5 3/4") Headlights
2 sets 13" R500 Wheels
one with ACB10 Tyres
one with CR500 Tyres
0.25 Degree Rear Ears and Front Camber (suitable for ACB10s)
3.92 LSD Diff
Freestyle trackday spec. springs/adjustable dampers/adjustable roll bars and flat floor
Raceline triple pass Radiator
Pace 3 stage Dry sump system and easy clean tank and hoses


On top of that lot I'm adding:


Paint (colour TBC)
Paint (inc cage)
Bare carbon nose BAND ONLY - "7" Emblem in radiator intake in (against black background)
Bare carbon wings (front and Rear)
ArmourFend side panels

.....and a Raceline Duratec, 225bhp (180lbft) 2.0litre plus 5 speed close ratio box, light weight fly wheel and competition clutch, 4 - 2- 1 exhaust and finally full Raceline installation pack.

cheers,
Mike

>> Edited by MikeE on Saturday 17th April 18:41

[Incorrigible]

I thought you were going to get a fast one

[mechsympathy]

That's not bad, but why the secrecy re colour? Or has Ted's censor gone mad?

MikeE said:

Paint (colour TBC) Paint (inc cage) Bare carbon nose BAND ONLY - "7" Emblem in radiator intake in (against black background)

[MikeE]

it's a surprise. I refuse to let Jane know (although having already owned a 'pink' Tuscan she knows it aint gonna be subtle), I just want to see her face when they wheel the chassis out of the delivery van)

[rubystone]

hmm "pink" ...not gonna be Rubystone is it

[dinkel]