Why has Blatchat been shutdown?
Discussion
rubystone said:
Aren't you still insured with MSM? Dave gave me the 10% discount when I renewed the insurance on your car. Flux give me 10% on mine too for the R500. Aon were unbeatable on my 911s with PCGB discount too....and thru the FOC I got a blinding deal on the insurance for the 308 - OK so I may have suggested that I was an FOC member 
No mate - one policy for all three cars now with Footman James. AON were next nearest (50% more expensive). Club membership didn't make any difference.
With insurance, you just have to ask and squeeze on numbers. For instance, the "automatic quote" on renewal from FJ was 10% more expensive and DIDN'T include the 7. Talked to a human there and job done.
rubystone said:
does this mean that you go to your local area meeting too?...that's another benefit of membership.
Gotta take issue with this, and the general trend of bigging up the benefits of club membership to make it look better value. At my area meet, anybody is welcomed even if they just happened to see a convoy of sevens that night and followed them to see what the commotion was. Membership don't enter into it.
Edited by lukeb on Wednesday 21st February 21:52
Becoming a member is as much a sign of commitment to the marque as much as anything else.
Also, partaking of the company of genuine members and maybe even getting involved in some of the activities they may organise at a local level WITHOUT being a member is, to me, rather mean minded. Obviously, it's up to each individual to decide what they want to do but I, personally, would feel guilty getting involved in club events without being a club member.
Of course, the nationally run events are more difficult to do(though not impossible) in without being a bona-fide member.
Also, partaking of the company of genuine members and maybe even getting involved in some of the activities they may organise at a local level WITHOUT being a member is, to me, rather mean minded. Obviously, it's up to each individual to decide what they want to do but I, personally, would feel guilty getting involved in club events without being a club member.
Of course, the nationally run events are more difficult to do(though not impossible) in without being a bona-fide member.
lukeb said:
rubystone said:
does this mean that you go to your local area meeting too?...that's another benefit of membership.
Gotta take issue with this, and the general trend of bigging up the benefits of club membership to make it look better value. At my area meet, anybody is welcomed even if they just happened to see a convoy of sevens that night and followed them to see what the commotion was. Membership don't enter into it.
Edited by lukeb on Wednesday 21st February 21:52
Luke, not at mine either....ironic in your case, given the pivotal role your A/Os are playing in the 50th Aniversary celebrations - are they throwing open the doors to non-members too for that event?...
Eric Mc said:
Becoming a member is as much a sign of commitment to the marque as much as anything else.
Also, partaking of the company of genuine members and maybe even getting involved in some of the activities they may organise at a local level WITHOUT being a member is, to me, rather mean minded. Obviously, it's up to each individual to decide what they want to do but I, personally, would feel guilty getting involved in club events without being a club member.
Of course, the nationally run events are more difficult to do(though not impossible) in without being a bona-fide member.
Also, partaking of the company of genuine members and maybe even getting involved in some of the activities they may organise at a local level WITHOUT being a member is, to me, rather mean minded. Obviously, it's up to each individual to decide what they want to do but I, personally, would feel guilty getting involved in club events without being a club member.
Of course, the nationally run events are more difficult to do(though not impossible) in without being a bona-fide member.
I also think that there are some owners who are more interested in the vehicle and the dynamics it offers more than the badge on the front. Personally, I'm more interested in the performance offered than the so called 'heritage' behind the marque. This isn't to say I'm niave of the history, but I don't think it is necessary to join the club to show comitment to the marque. I bought a car to do that - but not due to the badge on the front.
Eric Mc said:
Becoming a member is as much a sign of commitment to the marque as much as anything else...
How much of the membership fee do Caterham receive annually?
Appreciate I'm being a bit facetious, but I would suggest that the biggest sign of commitment to the marque is spunking a large wedge of hard earned on a car and continuing to run the little bugger for a long time (or continually trading it in/up).
There are some nice people in the club, and I've made friends through affiliation with the Caterham marque. But the club's attitude towards Blatchat (and other items - e.g. Le Sept) irritated me a fair bit and smacked of stuffiness. The cars may be nigh on 50yrs old, but having a 50yr old attitude to life is somewhat counter productive.
Rarely venture to Blatchat, but do I get the impression that a 50th birthday celebration of the marque is to happen and that there's voting going on as to whether it should be club members only? Kind of reinforces my point...bit of a shame Caterham themselves don't organise it and leave it as an open invite (would demonstrate their commitment to the marque I reckon
). Edited to say I just looked for the event and found that non club member owners would seem to be invited...but a vote?
Edited by murph7355 on Thursday 22 February 18:01
murph7355 said:
Rarely venture to Blatchat, but do I get the impression that a 50th birthday celebration of the marque is to happen and that there's voting going on as to whether it should be club members only? Kind of reinforces my point...bit of a shame Caterham themselves don't organise it and leave it as an open invite (would demonstrate their commitment to the marque I reckon
). Edited to say I just looked for the event and found that non club member owners would seem to be invited...but a vote?
Edited by murph7355 on Thursday 22 February 18:01
If the club have to foot the bill, it should only be open to club members. If Caterham Cars do, then clearly it should be open to allcomers. Simple as that...just like FOC events...or PCGB events
Ruby, the 50th isn't really what I mean - as a nationally promoted event that I gather is being driven by the club rather than just an individual area, it seems fair enough to me to be members only. I'd place it alongside things like the Rumble, Brooklands/Dunsfold days etc.
Different perspectives I guess. I see the monthly meets as just a group of like minded people chewing the fat. The 'club' has very little to do with this, other than perhaps publishing the where & when. As quite a techy chap, I like to think I pull my weight at meets by dint of sharing technical info.
With regards to the locally organised events & runs etc. you have more of a point, though the 'club' has practically no involvement in this either, and I credit it to the astonishing dedication of the AOs. I would rather they benefitted by me buying them a pint than from the warm glow that they organised an event for paid up members of the club. I think the club ought to give much more support to the local areas so it was more readily apparent that it is a benefit of club membership rather than the graft of dedicated AOs.
Eric Mc said:
Also, partaking of the company of genuine members and maybe even getting involved in some of the activities they may organise at a local level WITHOUT being a member is, to me, rather mean minded.
Different perspectives I guess. I see the monthly meets as just a group of like minded people chewing the fat. The 'club' has very little to do with this, other than perhaps publishing the where & when. As quite a techy chap, I like to think I pull my weight at meets by dint of sharing technical info.
With regards to the locally organised events & runs etc. you have more of a point, though the 'club' has practically no involvement in this either, and I credit it to the astonishing dedication of the AOs. I would rather they benefitted by me buying them a pint than from the warm glow that they organised an event for paid up members of the club. I think the club ought to give much more support to the local areas so it was more readily apparent that it is a benefit of club membership rather than the graft of dedicated AOs.
murph7355 said:
.......Appreciate I'm being a bit facetious, but I would suggest that the biggest sign of commitment to the marque is spunking a large wedge of hard earned on a car and continuing to run the little bugger for a long time (or continually trading it in/up).....The cars may be nigh on 50yrs old, but having a 50yr old attitude to life is somewhat counter productive...
rubystone said:
...just like FOC events...
I manage to get into their events too and haven;t been a member for 3yrs
Am I hearing that the Rumble is club members only too now? Surely not. Another event that didn't start this way.
No matter whether the club is paying for/contributing/whatever to any 50th anniversary event, surely it would make good sense to open the event up? Big up the club at the event, let people see that it's not crusty, that there is serious value to it etc and who knows, the club might find itself getting shed loads of new members....
My intention is not to slate the club. This is feedback from someone who was once a member after all, and has been "committed" to the marque for 11yrs, tries to encourage saner people into the ways of Caterhams and who will have to have his 7 removed from his dead hands
Rule 1 - Some people are "joiners" and others "aren't".
Rule 2 - no matter how well or badly run a club is, there will always be people who people who do not agree with the club policies, management, events organisation etc etc etc
Rule 3 - I have never been a member of a club or society where there wasn't some friction and debate at some time - sometimes serious - and sometimes resulting in the disollution of the club or society
Rule 4 - EVERY club I have ever been in has been accused of been cllquey and unfriendly - whether that accusation was really true or not.
From what I can see, the above are the "norm" for enthusist societies of all sorts.
On a final point regarding non-members particpating in club events. Sometimes, insurance is an issue which limits who can take part in such events.
Certainly in another activity (not car related) I am involved in, anyone taking part in events we organise who was not a fully paid member would not be covered by the society's insurance policy.
Rule 2 - no matter how well or badly run a club is, there will always be people who people who do not agree with the club policies, management, events organisation etc etc etc
Rule 3 - I have never been a member of a club or society where there wasn't some friction and debate at some time - sometimes serious - and sometimes resulting in the disollution of the club or society
Rule 4 - EVERY club I have ever been in has been accused of been cllquey and unfriendly - whether that accusation was really true or not.
From what I can see, the above are the "norm" for enthusist societies of all sorts.
On a final point regarding non-members particpating in club events. Sometimes, insurance is an issue which limits who can take part in such events.
Certainly in another activity (not car related) I am involved in, anyone taking part in events we organise who was not a fully paid member would not be covered by the society's insurance policy.
rubystone said:
...mad me laugh when at last year's Auto Italia they waved us into the FOC area
Me too.
Mind you, the FOC's another club that could easily be labelled stuffy
Eric - I'm not suggesting non club members get to go on track days etc. But there are plenty of events that don't need insurance (though the way the club treated blatchat I suspect they'll have a different opinion. Perhaps they spent too much time in the US).
There are also plenty of events/"club" items that almost certainly wouldn't exist today if non-club people (/people doing things outside of the remit of the club) hadn't been involved in the early days. So for the club to be so restrictive now seems a little daft/short sighted. It might seem like they only deigned to get involved when said events became popular...
I hear what you're saying about clubs generally. I'm not disagreeing. But if the club continues in the current vein...well, I just don't think it's healthy.
Anyway, not a club member so I guess it doesn't matter to the club what I think (another attitude that tends to be prevalent within a club). And it certainly doesn't bother me at all. I just like a good debate
I'm one of the "joiners" by nature.
Whatever my interests are, I tend to find a relevant club or society thet allows me to meet like-minded people.
I'm in about six clubs at the moment - including the Seven Club, the GRRC, a national model building club (the IPMS) and my operatic society (which, by far, takes up most of my time).
I am reluctant to put myself forward for committees, although I have been asked many, many times. I AM on the committee of my operatic society as it is the most intense of the organisation of which I am involved.
Whatever my interests are, I tend to find a relevant club or society thet allows me to meet like-minded people.
I'm in about six clubs at the moment - including the Seven Club, the GRRC, a national model building club (the IPMS) and my operatic society (which, by far, takes up most of my time).
I am reluctant to put myself forward for committees, although I have been asked many, many times. I AM on the committee of my operatic society as it is the most intense of the organisation of which I am involved.
Eric Mc said:
I'm one of the "joiners" by nature....
Which is great
But the thing with the public is that they're all different.
I have no problem paying subs, being part of a club etc. I used to be part of the 7 club and occasionally even helped out. I'm also a paid up member of ClubScuderia etc.
But when a club does stupid things, I'm afraid my enthusiasm wanes and I question the sense of being affiliated with it.
There was a Ferrari site in the US that did this (got all stupid over its website), so I left. The guy running the club felt he knew best and that the people keeping the place alive didn't. The 7 club, IMO, did the same (wrt Blatchat).
I'm all for joining clubs, but the clubs must be sensible about how they're run if they're to get the coin in, and must try and think out of their very limited circle.
Now, the people running it probably don't give a monkeys. And that's their prerogative. But keep doing dumb things, and burying your head in the sand and it's a sure fire way of restricting your appeal. Something that I believe is the primary objective of any such club.
Errr I think that I should add to this, as I'am one of the two Surrey Ao's for the club.
yes we do setup events on our own backs (we can and do get help from the club if we ask), and most of them are for members only. Why do we do this, well.
There does have to be some advantage to being in the club after all, and we do offer our members a discount (it is much cheaper to go to a Caterham salom day with us by about £50) then going to Caterham direct.
But we do other events where you don't have to be a member, Ie the Toyota F1 GP day that we hold each year (which I always post about on here).
Clubs are not for everyone but a lot of people like to be part of one, I know that I have made a lot of good friends via the club each to there own. I would hate to think the people would not turn-up to our monthly meet at the Wotton Hatch, just because there are not club members. Please free to pop in and talk cars with us at anytime, we don't bite.
yes we do setup events on our own backs (we can and do get help from the club if we ask), and most of them are for members only. Why do we do this, well.
There does have to be some advantage to being in the club after all, and we do offer our members a discount (it is much cheaper to go to a Caterham salom day with us by about £50) then going to Caterham direct.
But we do other events where you don't have to be a member, Ie the Toyota F1 GP day that we hold each year (which I always post about on here).
Clubs are not for everyone but a lot of people like to be part of one, I know that I have made a lot of good friends via the club each to there own. I would hate to think the people would not turn-up to our monthly meet at the Wotton Hatch, just because there are not club members. Please free to pop in and talk cars with us at anytime, we don't bite.
One point that has not been mentioned so far is the benefit a club brings in providing a focal point for those of a like mind or interest. Most clubs evolve out of a group of individuals running an event or providing information or providing benefit. In the early days membership doesn't matter as anyone who is prepared to help is 'in'.
As time goes on, the attractions of turning this informal arrangement into a formal club has its attractions - it is easier to build membership of a club as there is something to belong to (as has been said, there are plenty of 'joiners') and it provides continuity when the originators lose interest or want to hand over some of the responsibility. It is often difficult for people to let go of what they have created, however.
The downside (or upside, depending on your viewpoint) of a club is that it needs rules and to maintain a membership. They can't please all of the people all of the time. My view on this is that you can either go with the flow, leave, or decide to change it. These are basically the options all L7CGB members have. I am staying as the benefits still outweigh the current 'spat'.
I haven't got time to spare to change things anyway - my family, job and Stamford Carshow keep me fully occupied.
Steve
As time goes on, the attractions of turning this informal arrangement into a formal club has its attractions - it is easier to build membership of a club as there is something to belong to (as has been said, there are plenty of 'joiners') and it provides continuity when the originators lose interest or want to hand over some of the responsibility. It is often difficult for people to let go of what they have created, however.
The downside (or upside, depending on your viewpoint) of a club is that it needs rules and to maintain a membership. They can't please all of the people all of the time. My view on this is that you can either go with the flow, leave, or decide to change it. These are basically the options all L7CGB members have. I am staying as the benefits still outweigh the current 'spat'.
I haven't got time to spare to change things anyway - my family, job and Stamford Carshow keep me fully occupied.
Steve
Edited by sjmmarsh on Friday 23 February 13:39
Can't say as I've thought about it too much since leaving. Too much going on elsewhere.
An obvious start for me would be to bring back some sanity to the Blatchat piece. Allowing some form of tiered membership, perhaps with the internet at the hub of one strand might not be such a bad idea for a whole host of reasons.
It'd also be good to see some consistency of action, though the only examples I can give are from way back when so may no longer be appropriate (Le Sept and the Rumble - weren't club events, club didn't want to know. Then they become club events. Pourquoi? Not suggesting these shouldn't be club events, but why the volte face?).
Also, why not have a tiered pricing structure for *all* events? A "member" and "non-member" tariff? Not only would it readily demonstrate "value", but it would also present the ability for people to see what the club is all about. I guess the difficulty with this is that the membership fee isn't that huge (not the point), so any alternative tariff may be pointless. But an idea none-the-less (is membership still 45 quid?).
No doubt if I thought about it for more than 30secs I could come up with more.
An obvious start for me would be to bring back some sanity to the Blatchat piece. Allowing some form of tiered membership, perhaps with the internet at the hub of one strand might not be such a bad idea for a whole host of reasons.
It'd also be good to see some consistency of action, though the only examples I can give are from way back when so may no longer be appropriate (Le Sept and the Rumble - weren't club events, club didn't want to know. Then they become club events. Pourquoi? Not suggesting these shouldn't be club events, but why the volte face?).
Also, why not have a tiered pricing structure for *all* events? A "member" and "non-member" tariff? Not only would it readily demonstrate "value", but it would also present the ability for people to see what the club is all about. I guess the difficulty with this is that the membership fee isn't that huge (not the point), so any alternative tariff may be pointless. But an idea none-the-less (is membership still 45 quid?).
No doubt if I thought about it for more than 30secs I could come up with more.
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