It's time I made the move to DSLR
Discussion
After much pontification, negotiation and rumination (of biltong as I browse the tinternet), I just about think I've got Mrs Pints to allow me to spend some of my next bonus on my very first DSLR.
To set the scene, I'm currently using a Canon S3is which I've had since the week it launched in the UK and have been very happy with it.
I've compared Nikon with Canon (ITO feel and comfort in my hands), and Canon is where I'm happy to spend my money.
I've even dithered between a 650d and 60d, deciding the latter isn't really worth spending the extra money on. (Happy to be corrected on this point though).
This brings me to the "what shall I buy" point. Here is my pro-forma:
Canon 650d + 18-55mm kit lens
Canon nifty-fifty lens (f/1.8)
Canon 55-250mm lens (f4-5.6 IS)
Canon Speedlite 320 flash
I've already got a camera bag. I'll probably throw in a spare battery and large SD card too.
I'd love a 100mm macro lens but fear that's outside my budget at this point.
Use will include holiday shots, family portraits, car shots (naturally) and so on. It's just a hobby.
Anything I should be considering, or any thoughts on my shopping basket?
All input appreciated.
To set the scene, I'm currently using a Canon S3is which I've had since the week it launched in the UK and have been very happy with it.
I've compared Nikon with Canon (ITO feel and comfort in my hands), and Canon is where I'm happy to spend my money.
I've even dithered between a 650d and 60d, deciding the latter isn't really worth spending the extra money on. (Happy to be corrected on this point though).
This brings me to the "what shall I buy" point. Here is my pro-forma:
Canon 650d + 18-55mm kit lens
Canon nifty-fifty lens (f/1.8)
Canon 55-250mm lens (f4-5.6 IS)
Canon Speedlite 320 flash
I've already got a camera bag. I'll probably throw in a spare battery and large SD card too.
I'd love a 100mm macro lens but fear that's outside my budget at this point.
Use will include holiday shots, family portraits, car shots (naturally) and so on. It's just a hobby.
Anything I should be considering, or any thoughts on my shopping basket?
All input appreciated.
What you're looking at is about £1200 worth of gear if my quick add up is right. The 650D is a good camera for the money, the 50mm f/1.8 (nifty) is a great little lens which I've seen used to get some super shots. The two lenses in the package with the camera (18-55mm and 55-250mm) are okay but remember they are bundled with the camera for about an extra £250 which isn't a lot of money for two new lenses covering their focal lengths, so don't have too high expectations there.
I might be tempted to stretch the budget a little and buy the body only, forget the two lens bundle and buy the 70-200mm f/4 L (non IS) which sells for about £480 (so about £230 more than you are looking at). That is an excellent lens for the money and you would see better results than with the 55-250mm. Also the 70-200 is EF mount whereas the 18-55 and 55-250 are EF-S and aren't compatible with more expensive Canon cameras (should you ever want to upgrade). The 50mm f/1.8 and the 70-200 f/4 are compatible, so they are a good investment in that regard.
I might be tempted to stretch the budget a little and buy the body only, forget the two lens bundle and buy the 70-200mm f/4 L (non IS) which sells for about £480 (so about £230 more than you are looking at). That is an excellent lens for the money and you would see better results than with the 55-250mm. Also the 70-200 is EF mount whereas the 18-55 and 55-250 are EF-S and aren't compatible with more expensive Canon cameras (should you ever want to upgrade). The 50mm f/1.8 and the 70-200 f/4 are compatible, so they are a good investment in that regard.
hmm, ok how about:
650D body £489
15-85 £495
55-250 £164
£1148. Add on a bit for a bag of some sort.
My Dad has recently got a 15-85 and in straight jpeg it looks decent, even on the camera screen the images look better than the kit lens.
I know everyone raves about the 50mm but I don't use mine really, unless I'm handheld in very low light. I don't really find it a useful length.
From what you say you'll be shooting I'm not sure a flash will get used much either.
You could consider secondhand too, I reckon you could pick up a lightly used 60D and 15-85 (or other similar quality lens) for £800ish. I've seen 7D bodies for £600.
650D body £489
15-85 £495
55-250 £164
£1148. Add on a bit for a bag of some sort.
My Dad has recently got a 15-85 and in straight jpeg it looks decent, even on the camera screen the images look better than the kit lens.
I know everyone raves about the 50mm but I don't use mine really, unless I'm handheld in very low light. I don't really find it a useful length.
From what you say you'll be shooting I'm not sure a flash will get used much either.
You could consider secondhand too, I reckon you could pick up a lightly used 60D and 15-85 (or other similar quality lens) for £800ish. I've seen 7D bodies for £600.
Edited by Crafty_ on Saturday 12th January 10:56
Edited by Crafty_ on Saturday 12th January 11:30
As a Canon user I would say that's a good starter kit. Quite similar to my own first SLR kit (Canon AE1 based) back .... well, a long time.
I have, among other things, a 600D and that's capable of some excellent images, especially shooting RAW files, so the 650D should give all that and more.
Although it's only a kit lens the 18-55 zoom is not at all bad IMO. Can't speak for the 50mm but I think it seem well accepted (the old pre EOS 50s were very good) although of course on a crop sensor it is more like a traditional 80mm on a full frame body. So pretty much ideal for portrait type shots!
I haven't used a 55-250 but have seen other people's results and conclude that it is a very capable lens for the money.
The 320 flash seems to be selling for the same price (more or less) as the 430 II . I'm not familiar with the details of either (I do have a 580 though but I think that gets quite a bit mor complex) but the Canon Web site comparison seems to suggest that you trade fetures between the two - the most obvious seemingly the power and wide angle and longer zoom options of the 430 for for the slightly faster recycling, maybe, some clever off camera features and video light capability of the 320.
The other major difference that there seems to be is the way the focus assist is designed. If I am reading the info correclty the 320 uses the flash or video light and the 430 uses (Infra)red which may be less distracting - can't be sure without seeing a comparison.
I mention this only because a lot of my early kit usage was family stuff and I used bounce flash a lot so power was important (I bought a Metz hammerhead style gun to provide the necessary oomph. Power equivalent to the 430 more or less.) Of course it was all manual back then, no AF, so things like how the AF assist beam worked were just not a concern!
If you expect to use the video a lot then the 320 seems to make sense although you may want to consider the options for getting it off camera. I see it has some form of built in off-camera capability so in theory can be positioned anywhere withion range but I was thinking more about a bracket for moving the light off the centre line of the lens but retaining the ability to handle camera and light as a single item. Something fairly ishould do it.
Go for a relatively fast write time for the SD card. 30Mb/s or more if possible. I would buy 2 and go for 45Mb/s or above.
Extra batteries as well if you plan to be out and about. Relatively cheap third party items seem, in my experience, to be equally as good as the OEM items at a fraction of the price. Try 7dayshop. You should get around 400 + frames from a full battery. Not sure about video.
Good choice IMO. Though of course as a long time Canon user people might consider me to be a little biased.
I have, among other things, a 600D and that's capable of some excellent images, especially shooting RAW files, so the 650D should give all that and more.
Although it's only a kit lens the 18-55 zoom is not at all bad IMO. Can't speak for the 50mm but I think it seem well accepted (the old pre EOS 50s were very good) although of course on a crop sensor it is more like a traditional 80mm on a full frame body. So pretty much ideal for portrait type shots!
I haven't used a 55-250 but have seen other people's results and conclude that it is a very capable lens for the money.
The 320 flash seems to be selling for the same price (more or less) as the 430 II . I'm not familiar with the details of either (I do have a 580 though but I think that gets quite a bit mor complex) but the Canon Web site comparison seems to suggest that you trade fetures between the two - the most obvious seemingly the power and wide angle and longer zoom options of the 430 for for the slightly faster recycling, maybe, some clever off camera features and video light capability of the 320.
The other major difference that there seems to be is the way the focus assist is designed. If I am reading the info correclty the 320 uses the flash or video light and the 430 uses (Infra)red which may be less distracting - can't be sure without seeing a comparison.
I mention this only because a lot of my early kit usage was family stuff and I used bounce flash a lot so power was important (I bought a Metz hammerhead style gun to provide the necessary oomph. Power equivalent to the 430 more or less.) Of course it was all manual back then, no AF, so things like how the AF assist beam worked were just not a concern!
If you expect to use the video a lot then the 320 seems to make sense although you may want to consider the options for getting it off camera. I see it has some form of built in off-camera capability so in theory can be positioned anywhere withion range but I was thinking more about a bracket for moving the light off the centre line of the lens but retaining the ability to handle camera and light as a single item. Something fairly ishould do it.
Go for a relatively fast write time for the SD card. 30Mb/s or more if possible. I would buy 2 and go for 45Mb/s or above.
Extra batteries as well if you plan to be out and about. Relatively cheap third party items seem, in my experience, to be equally as good as the OEM items at a fraction of the price. Try 7dayshop. You should get around 400 + frames from a full battery. Not sure about video.
Good choice IMO. Though of course as a long time Canon user people might consider me to be a little biased.
Some useful pointers here. Thanks.
Regarding the light, the reason for the 320 is indeed the video light option. I use the video function on my bridge a lot and expect the same of the DLSR. Having the light last weekend, for example, would have been very useful. Also having an off-camera flash is something I've often found myself needing so am happy to spend the money there.
The bundle only includes the 18-55mm, but I'll certainly take a look at the alternatives mentioned and see if I can get it to come in under budget (yes to be finalised, depends on bonus and how much SWMBO has earmarked for alternative spend).
Regarding the light, the reason for the 320 is indeed the video light option. I use the video function on my bridge a lot and expect the same of the DLSR. Having the light last weekend, for example, would have been very useful. Also having an off-camera flash is something I've often found myself needing so am happy to spend the money there.
The bundle only includes the 18-55mm, but I'll certainly take a look at the alternatives mentioned and see if I can get it to come in under budget (yes to be finalised, depends on bonus and how much SWMBO has earmarked for alternative spend).
I've just upgraded my kit without spending silly money by going used. Picked up a 60D from a PHer and braved ebay for a 15-85; total spend £790.
The 55-250 lens is cracking for the money IMO, the 50mm 1.8 I don't use that much. It's a bit long for a crop body really and it can be a bugger to focus. A 35mm would be better but of course that's more £££. Grab a 50mm off ebay for under £70, and if you don't get on with it sell it on again.
The 55-250 lens is cracking for the money IMO, the 50mm 1.8 I don't use that much. It's a bit long for a crop body really and it can be a bugger to focus. A 35mm would be better but of course that's more £££. Grab a 50mm off ebay for under £70, and if you don't get on with it sell it on again.
For prices use www.camerapricebuster.co.uk, they show prices for UK gear only, so the likes of panamoz and digitalrev are not listed.
I've bought lenses off of TP before, I think most are pretty trustworthy there.
I've bought lenses off of TP before, I think most are pretty trustworthy there.
Crafty_ said:
For prices use www.camerapricebuster.co.uk, they show prices for UK gear only, so the likes of panamoz and digitalrev are not listed.
I've bought lenses off of TP before, I think most are pretty trustworthy there.
I've managed to spec up my list above with DigitalRev and it comes in at £785.99I've bought lenses off of TP before, I think most are pretty trustworthy there.
Not read any real reasons not to go with them.
Pints said:
I've managed to spec up my list above with DigitalRev and it comes in at £785.99
Not read any real reasons not to go with them.
If you're going to use Digital rev why not stick to your original budget and get more/ better kit? (having tactfully forgotten to mention it to your wife)Not read any real reasons not to go with them.
2slo said:
If you're going to use Digital rev why not stick to your original budget and get more/ better kit? (having tactfully forgotten to mention it to your wife)
My original budget is based on DR prices. I certainly can't afford that kit if I'm buying from Jessops (yes, I know they're not about anymore).Pints said:
That'll be something to Google then - how to check Canon serial number.
Thanks for the heads up.
From what I read (and can remember) I don't think it was clear what was really going on, have a read on TP or photography-on-the.net there were threads on both (and here IIRC).Thanks for the heads up.
ETA: I just came across the info, lots more in the thread but here's the issue in a nut shell: http://photography-on-the.net/forum/showpost.php?p...
on top of that DR told the customer they'd replace the serial number sticker on the camera!
ETA (again): Just in case you were not aware, Canon are currently doing cashback on some items http://www.canon.co.uk/wintercashback/
Will need to be UK stock to qualify.
Edited by Crafty_ on Saturday 12th January 19:45
Crafty_ said:
hmm, ok how about:
650D body £489
15-85 £495
55-250 £164
£1148. Add on a bit for a bag of some sort.
My Dad has recently got a 15-85 and in straight jpeg it looks decent, even on the camera screen the images look better than the kit lens.
I know everyone raves about the 50mm but I don't use mine really, unless I'm handheld in very low light. I don't really find it a useful length.
From what you say you'll be shooting I'm not sure a flash will get used much either.
Dayam, think someone stole my reply! 650D body £489
15-85 £495
55-250 £164
£1148. Add on a bit for a bag of some sort.
My Dad has recently got a 15-85 and in straight jpeg it looks decent, even on the camera screen the images look better than the kit lens.
I know everyone raves about the 50mm but I don't use mine really, unless I'm handheld in very low light. I don't really find it a useful length.
From what you say you'll be shooting I'm not sure a flash will get used much either.
I'd go along pretty much with everything said above, including the fact that the 50mm is really awkward lens to use. I'm one of the few people to actually sell a 50mm f1.8 as I just didn't use it. f1.8 is great, but I used it so rarely for it's full effect.
The 15-85 is a great lens. Picked one up over the summer and it's instantly my favourite lens. (Although the Tok f2.8 11-16 is a real close second).
The 15 gives you close to UWA lens, and 85 gives you a decent reach.
I made a similar choice a while ago, and decided on the 60D over the 650D. The specifications didn't really have much between them, but the larger size of the 60D made it feel much better in the hand. The 650D almost felt like a toy in comparison, so if you're just looking online I recommend you go to a shop and check them physically.
The 15-85mm lens was my first lens with the camera, and IMO it's brilliant - not especially fast once you're towards the longer end but will still take some decent shots, and I find it's a great focal range for 'standard' use.
I also bought a 50mm f/1.8 and once you've played with bokeh and paper-thin depth at f/1.8 I found I had little use for it - the AF is pretty appalling and on a crop sensor it's just too long - I'd much prefer a 35mm to make it back to an effective full frame 50mm prime.
I also bought the 70-300mm L lens for the longer range stuff, and I'd recommend that as well - not as fast as the 70-200, but that extra 100mm on a crop sensor gives great zoom and the IS is brilliant too.
Overall I'm pretty happy that the kit I've got allows me to cover the eventualities I'm going to come across!
The 15-85mm lens was my first lens with the camera, and IMO it's brilliant - not especially fast once you're towards the longer end but will still take some decent shots, and I find it's a great focal range for 'standard' use.
I also bought a 50mm f/1.8 and once you've played with bokeh and paper-thin depth at f/1.8 I found I had little use for it - the AF is pretty appalling and on a crop sensor it's just too long - I'd much prefer a 35mm to make it back to an effective full frame 50mm prime.
I also bought the 70-300mm L lens for the longer range stuff, and I'd recommend that as well - not as fast as the 70-200, but that extra 100mm on a crop sensor gives great zoom and the IS is brilliant too.
Overall I'm pretty happy that the kit I've got allows me to cover the eventualities I'm going to come across!
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