Discussion
Got the screen out today using a 'cheesewire' designed for the purpose, it was a bit of a struggle as it kept trying to follow the cracks in the screen (of which there were many) rather than cutting through the mastic. I can now work on the dash top and screen vents to tidy them up.
Bit of luck with the heater, the heater matrix from a 350 I cannibalised seems to be the correct one for the SEAC. I ripped the heater box apart to get it out; it's not surprising that the heater is ineffective on the 350 as it has to flow through the small slot on the metal section in the picture, that's hardly going to make for efficient airflow... although Mr Valiant's 350 seemed to be generating decent heat at the sausage meet yesterday so the 350 heater puzzle isn't solved yet! The SEAC heater is a different design to the 350 so hopefully will be effective.
Bit of luck with the heater, the heater matrix from a 350 I cannibalised seems to be the correct one for the SEAC. I ripped the heater box apart to get it out; it's not surprising that the heater is ineffective on the 350 as it has to flow through the small slot on the metal section in the picture, that's hardly going to make for efficient airflow... although Mr Valiant's 350 seemed to be generating decent heat at the sausage meet yesterday so the 350 heater puzzle isn't solved yet! The SEAC heater is a different design to the 350 so hopefully will be effective.
I decided to have a go at changing the cam with the engine in the car seeing as the weather's so cr*p...
The followers seem to be Rhodes lifters but are badly worn; I can't withdraw one of them from the engine as it appears to have been burred/mushroomed over by the amount of wear. Of the 15 in the pic you can see the pitted surfaces and the concave wear.
And I discovered cracks in several of the valve spring retainers (GinG15 posted about his unfortunate experiences a couple of months ago and mine look the same) - this is the worst:
Decision time... looks like the engine needs loads of work so what to do? A temporary replacement engine looks attractive whilst I rebuild/fettle the original...
The followers seem to be Rhodes lifters but are badly worn; I can't withdraw one of them from the engine as it appears to have been burred/mushroomed over by the amount of wear. Of the 15 in the pic you can see the pitted surfaces and the concave wear.
And I discovered cracks in several of the valve spring retainers (GinG15 posted about his unfortunate experiences a couple of months ago and mine look the same) - this is the worst:
Decision time... looks like the engine needs loads of work so what to do? A temporary replacement engine looks attractive whilst I rebuild/fettle the original...
Edited by The Hatter on Sunday 20th January 19:57
The lifters are not standard Ian; I took one apart.
The one on the right is a lifter from my 350i; standard hydraulic. I was wrong in assuming they were Rhodes lifters in the SEAC, they are actually solid lifters; on the dismantled one in the pic the large piece sits on a shoulder in the lifter (ie solid fixed length), the small disc is some sort of oil control feature with a pressed in form but it sits inside the body of the lifter. I'm still confused though, as the engine was set up with no measurable rocker clearances, that's why I assumed they were Rhodes. I'm glad I've decided to pull it apart and rebuild it properly as I suspect the lack of valve clearances would have made it run really badly - I'm now thinking that might be why it was laid up in the first place; someone with no knowledge of the engine had been faffing around with it. I want to rebuild the engine myself at my own pace and get it right, hence the temporary engine to get the car on the road.
Phil, I'm totally with you that a car with a non-functioning heater is not a good proposition as it'll keep misting up (OK I drive with the roof on sometimes!). I'm going to try and persevere with the original heater though as some people seem to be able to get their heater to do the business; there must be some way of making it work! That's one of the reasons I'm playing with the heater on the 350i; so I can learn the lessons on that car and impliment the same fixes on the SEAC - assuming I can find some fixes! Maybe we should have a heater competion at the fest - thermocouples at the ready folks!
The one on the right is a lifter from my 350i; standard hydraulic. I was wrong in assuming they were Rhodes lifters in the SEAC, they are actually solid lifters; on the dismantled one in the pic the large piece sits on a shoulder in the lifter (ie solid fixed length), the small disc is some sort of oil control feature with a pressed in form but it sits inside the body of the lifter. I'm still confused though, as the engine was set up with no measurable rocker clearances, that's why I assumed they were Rhodes. I'm glad I've decided to pull it apart and rebuild it properly as I suspect the lack of valve clearances would have made it run really badly - I'm now thinking that might be why it was laid up in the first place; someone with no knowledge of the engine had been faffing around with it. I want to rebuild the engine myself at my own pace and get it right, hence the temporary engine to get the car on the road.
Phil, I'm totally with you that a car with a non-functioning heater is not a good proposition as it'll keep misting up (OK I drive with the roof on sometimes!). I'm going to try and persevere with the original heater though as some people seem to be able to get their heater to do the business; there must be some way of making it work! That's one of the reasons I'm playing with the heater on the 350i; so I can learn the lessons on that car and impliment the same fixes on the SEAC - assuming I can find some fixes! Maybe we should have a heater competion at the fest - thermocouples at the ready folks!
Temporary engine duly obtained... thanks Chris!!
It's a 4.2 litre big valve engine so fully in keeping with the SEAC lineage and I can wear the 420 badges with pride; but I do intend to rebuild and refit the original in due course.
There's several things I need to tackle to get it fitted; one is the dry sump system (not decided a plan of action yet; leave wet sump or transfer it over?) and the other is the crank pulley - the standard crank pulley won't fit the stainless racer chassis. To solve that I will transplant the original 'high speed' poly-V belt drive onto the new engine; that has a smaller diameter crank pulley, but I have to change the water pump over to match. I tried that tonight, fortunately everthing came apart OK but I'm bemused by the water pump impellor; the SEAC one is completely different to the 'new' engine, any ideas anyone on that one? SEAC on right in the pic. I love the tide marks too!
It's a 4.2 litre big valve engine so fully in keeping with the SEAC lineage and I can wear the 420 badges with pride; but I do intend to rebuild and refit the original in due course.
There's several things I need to tackle to get it fitted; one is the dry sump system (not decided a plan of action yet; leave wet sump or transfer it over?) and the other is the crank pulley - the standard crank pulley won't fit the stainless racer chassis. To solve that I will transplant the original 'high speed' poly-V belt drive onto the new engine; that has a smaller diameter crank pulley, but I have to change the water pump over to match. I tried that tonight, fortunately everthing came apart OK but I'm bemused by the water pump impellor; the SEAC one is completely different to the 'new' engine, any ideas anyone on that one? SEAC on right in the pic. I love the tide marks too!
Edited by The Hatter on Thursday 28th February 21:10
Hi Phil, Looks like you've got the standard wedge/SD1 water pump with a long nose, and then a deep dish water pump pulley to get the belt drive closer to the block. Judging by the Rimmers website, I think the water pump on my car is an early version but I can't find any pictures of the impellors on the early pumps.
You've got an amazing shine on those bits!
Martin
You've got an amazing shine on those bits!
Martin
Jasper, It's certainly an early car, the chassis number implies it was built before the '86 motor show when the SEAC was announced.
I've been meddling with the rear lights, I got a replacement set and assumed they would slot right in... wrong! The original lights had been reprofiled to suit the bodywork and the 'new' ones wouldn't even go on the car:
So then I set about reprofiling the not inexpensive new lights with a dremmel to match the originals. I got them to fit onto the car, only to find the 'new' lights that I had off a late 350 had been 'reprofiled' in a different place to suit their original host car, so don't match the SEAC! grrr....
Oh the joy of rebuilding TVRs!
I've been meddling with the rear lights, I got a replacement set and assumed they would slot right in... wrong! The original lights had been reprofiled to suit the bodywork and the 'new' ones wouldn't even go on the car:
So then I set about reprofiling the not inexpensive new lights with a dremmel to match the originals. I got them to fit onto the car, only to find the 'new' lights that I had off a late 350 had been 'reprofiled' in a different place to suit their original host car, so don't match the SEAC! grrr....
Oh the joy of rebuilding TVRs!
Edited by The Hatter on Monday 18th March 19:07
Thanks Andy, but I'll stick with what I've got. The fit of the lights is pretty poor so even with an untouched original set to modify I don't think I'll ever get them to fit to a high standard! C'est la TVR vie... and I suspect another reason TVR switched away from Kevlar. If the Kevlar didn't come out of the moulds spot-on then I suspect there wouldn't have been a chance in hell of grinding/sanding/filling back to the 'right' shape. It's tough stuff, is kevlar!
Temporary 4.2 BV engine is now in place with the help of Mr Zig - Thanks Mark, you know to dress a bit warmer next time you pop round!
I've left this engine wet sumped; the dry sump tank and hoses are still on the car but plugged in the engine bay ready for when the original engine is back up and running.
You can see the difference in crank pulley size in this pic, needed to clear the race chassis cross brace.
I've left this engine wet sumped; the dry sump tank and hoses are still on the car but plugged in the engine bay ready for when the original engine is back up and running.
You can see the difference in crank pulley size in this pic, needed to clear the race chassis cross brace.
I'll still be in with a chance for the rat car... I've been concentrating on the mechanical bits and bringing everything back to life - I'm starting to like the rat look! All I've done with the body is clean it.
I'm in the p[rocess of replacing the body mountings, in particular the washers inside the footwells were well dissolved:
I need to replace the sleeves on the bolts; they're approx 10mm ID, 12.5 OD and 20mm long. I thought it would be easy to source these compression limiter/bushes - but not so! Anyone know where to get some? I could do with new rubbers too, anyone know a source for them as well?
I'm in the p[rocess of replacing the body mountings, in particular the washers inside the footwells were well dissolved:
I need to replace the sleeves on the bolts; they're approx 10mm ID, 12.5 OD and 20mm long. I thought it would be easy to source these compression limiter/bushes - but not so! Anyone know where to get some? I could do with new rubbers too, anyone know a source for them as well?
No response on the body mounts; I can get oilite bushes in the sizes I need for the spacers so I'll go with that - seems overkill though! I'll re-use the body rubbers for the time being but they are compressed so not doing their job properly any more, hopefully I'll find a source in due course.
Tyre time, 245/45 ZR16
Unsurprisingly after 18 years they're cracked and as hard as nylon; frustrating though as the tread is OK. The fronts look like they've never been used, when I found the car it had the old worn out front tyres on the bootlid ducktail. I can get Toyos, Continentals and Fuldas. It's got Fulda currently, but my tyre place favours Toyos, as does various internet sites and user reports, so I'm going with that. Apparently it's a Porsche size, £145 each... ouch!
Proof if anyone needs it that Mercedes wheels fit... and a view of the steamroller tyres.
Comedy wheelage while I get the rims/tyres sorted - has anyone tried driving on these spacesaver spares? Looks scary to me!
Tyre time, 245/45 ZR16
Unsurprisingly after 18 years they're cracked and as hard as nylon; frustrating though as the tread is OK. The fronts look like they've never been used, when I found the car it had the old worn out front tyres on the bootlid ducktail. I can get Toyos, Continentals and Fuldas. It's got Fulda currently, but my tyre place favours Toyos, as does various internet sites and user reports, so I'm going with that. Apparently it's a Porsche size, £145 each... ouch!
Proof if anyone needs it that Mercedes wheels fit... and a view of the steamroller tyres.
Comedy wheelage while I get the rims/tyres sorted - has anyone tried driving on these spacesaver spares? Looks scary to me!
My body mounts do have the sheets of rubber between the body and the chassis; but the holes on the body are about 20mm diameter and there's a top hat rubber bush in that, plus a compression limiter down to the chassis. I've got some rubber bushes to put it together now, thanks Dave (Barrington)!
I thought of just chopping tube to length, but I don't have a lathe to part it off and I didn't reckon my chances of hacksawing a tube to a square end. I've got the overkill oilites and they'll do the job nicely.
I'm getting frighteningly close now... tyres fitted (couldn't get them any cheaper!), windscreen fitted (good deal, I found a local guy who used to fit screens at a TVR dealer), and front panel in place.
I struggled with getting a number plate with adhesive on the front so had to get a conventional vinyl one and use double sided adhesive sheet; not ideal but not too bad. I mounted the plastic panel with velcro to avoid unsightly screw heads.
A couple of jobs to get me to an MOT, the bonnet is cracked so needs some attention and the new engine I put in is not running right (it was running better when first installed); I suspect stale fuel is working it's way around the system so I've got more flushing and cleaning to do. I suspect the issue is the right hand tank, I can't get it off to clean it properly without lifting the body off the chassis... my plan has been to keep flushing it out but I'm not sure it's worked yet. Fortunately my carb fed X1/9 is quite happy running on the stale fuel I pump out of the SEAC!
I thought of just chopping tube to length, but I don't have a lathe to part it off and I didn't reckon my chances of hacksawing a tube to a square end. I've got the overkill oilites and they'll do the job nicely.
I'm getting frighteningly close now... tyres fitted (couldn't get them any cheaper!), windscreen fitted (good deal, I found a local guy who used to fit screens at a TVR dealer), and front panel in place.
I struggled with getting a number plate with adhesive on the front so had to get a conventional vinyl one and use double sided adhesive sheet; not ideal but not too bad. I mounted the plastic panel with velcro to avoid unsightly screw heads.
A couple of jobs to get me to an MOT, the bonnet is cracked so needs some attention and the new engine I put in is not running right (it was running better when first installed); I suspect stale fuel is working it's way around the system so I've got more flushing and cleaning to do. I suspect the issue is the right hand tank, I can't get it off to clean it properly without lifting the body off the chassis... my plan has been to keep flushing it out but I'm not sure it's worked yet. Fortunately my carb fed X1/9 is quite happy running on the stale fuel I pump out of the SEAC!
Edited by The Hatter on Saturday 18th May 19:08
I finally sorted the rough running engine; there was anti-freeze inside the AFM, giving intermittent dodgy signals and overfueling the engine. I can only guess how on earth it got there!! You can see droplets of it on the circuit board:
Now I need to sort the crack in the bonnet:
It makes the bonnet sag and it doesn't line up with the nosecone. It's been caused by someone tryiing to crowbar the bonnet open; I guess in an attempt to steal the car. The bonnet construction is Kevlar woven sheet, with the 'shark gill' vents moulded seperately (but still in kevlar) and bonded in with GRP.
The leading and trailing edge re-inforcements are carbon fibre:
The leading edge re-inforcement has broken away in the area of the crack, and it's presence means I can't get to the back of the crack:
I have no intention of cutting the re-inforcement off, so for now I'll bond the re-inforcement back into place and then repair the crack from the front in due course.
This repair of course doesn't affect the MOT... IT'S NOW INSURED FOR THE ROAD AND THE MOT IS BOOKED FOR JUNE 10TH... it's been off the road since 1995 - scary!
Now I need to sort the crack in the bonnet:
It makes the bonnet sag and it doesn't line up with the nosecone. It's been caused by someone tryiing to crowbar the bonnet open; I guess in an attempt to steal the car. The bonnet construction is Kevlar woven sheet, with the 'shark gill' vents moulded seperately (but still in kevlar) and bonded in with GRP.
The leading and trailing edge re-inforcements are carbon fibre:
The leading edge re-inforcement has broken away in the area of the crack, and it's presence means I can't get to the back of the crack:
I have no intention of cutting the re-inforcement off, so for now I'll bond the re-inforcement back into place and then repair the crack from the front in due course.
This repair of course doesn't affect the MOT... IT'S NOW INSURED FOR THE ROAD AND THE MOT IS BOOKED FOR JUNE 10TH... it's been off the road since 1995 - scary!
Thanks for all the kind words, it's taken me far longer to get to this point than I hoped but I've enjoyed it so far! Phase 1 was always to do whatever was necessary to get it on the road and properly assess it, so that's where I'm at.
It's excellent news actually; it drives really well. The suspension is very hard but it still seems to ride better than my 350i; the impression I get is that the chassis is very stiff, which is allowing the suspension to do it's job properly. I think the Toyos are playing a part in that too, they seem to suit the car very well. The steering is not as sharp as I expected but the tracking was set to toe out so that's no surprise - it also possibly explains the worn out tyres that were on the ducktail when I found the car:
I'll play with the tracking to sharpen it up, the standard settings are of little use to me as it's rose jointed all round. It goes around corners pretty well but I need more confidence in the car before I push it!
The gearbox is OK, that's a big relief as it's a TWR built close ratio box. The diff is quiet too. There's something odd with the rear suspension that I can only describe as a high frequency 'shuffle'; I suspect the UJs on the driveshafts are a bit sticky. I've greased it all but could detect no play with the car jacked up - I think one or more of the joints is on it's way out. I'll regrease them and keep an eye on it, I suspect it's siezing up so will manifest itself as play pretty quickly.
The replacement engine was running OK... until the road got quite bumpy. I suspect the driver's side tank is liberating some of the treacle from the old fuel at the bottom of the tank. I'm hoping I can flush this out in time; I can't remove the tank for cleaning without lifting the body off the chassis or cutting the body - and I don't want to do either. This might be the biggest problem for now; I may have to isolate the driver's side tank somehow.
I'm pleased with the seats, the original Montego Turbo ones seem OK and are comfortable. The driving position is quite high, but gives a much better view out of the car; this has the effect of making the car feel much smaller than the 350i - although it is a fair bit shorter anyway. It's much wider though, especially with the wide tyres. The umberella handbrake is 'interesting'... difficult to use and very close to the left knee when driving - I think I'll try and reposition it a bit higher.
Overall - very chuffed!
It's excellent news actually; it drives really well. The suspension is very hard but it still seems to ride better than my 350i; the impression I get is that the chassis is very stiff, which is allowing the suspension to do it's job properly. I think the Toyos are playing a part in that too, they seem to suit the car very well. The steering is not as sharp as I expected but the tracking was set to toe out so that's no surprise - it also possibly explains the worn out tyres that were on the ducktail when I found the car:
I'll play with the tracking to sharpen it up, the standard settings are of little use to me as it's rose jointed all round. It goes around corners pretty well but I need more confidence in the car before I push it!
The gearbox is OK, that's a big relief as it's a TWR built close ratio box. The diff is quiet too. There's something odd with the rear suspension that I can only describe as a high frequency 'shuffle'; I suspect the UJs on the driveshafts are a bit sticky. I've greased it all but could detect no play with the car jacked up - I think one or more of the joints is on it's way out. I'll regrease them and keep an eye on it, I suspect it's siezing up so will manifest itself as play pretty quickly.
The replacement engine was running OK... until the road got quite bumpy. I suspect the driver's side tank is liberating some of the treacle from the old fuel at the bottom of the tank. I'm hoping I can flush this out in time; I can't remove the tank for cleaning without lifting the body off the chassis or cutting the body - and I don't want to do either. This might be the biggest problem for now; I may have to isolate the driver's side tank somehow.
I'm pleased with the seats, the original Montego Turbo ones seem OK and are comfortable. The driving position is quite high, but gives a much better view out of the car; this has the effect of making the car feel much smaller than the 350i - although it is a fair bit shorter anyway. It's much wider though, especially with the wide tyres. The umberella handbrake is 'interesting'... difficult to use and very close to the left knee when driving - I think I'll try and reposition it a bit higher.
Overall - very chuffed!
Update time; I've been driving it around locally and it's bedding in nicely. The fuel tank sludge issue appears to be receding, with each dose of fuel it runs better. I've replumbed the cooling system as I believe TVR never got it right in the first place and it now runs cool with no air lock issues... that made it run better in one blow as the standard set up seemed to pump air into the engine and confuse the engine temp sensor; I trialed this on the 350 first and I'm very happy with the results, neither car now blows coolant out of the expansion tank into TVR's dodgy bodge overflow tank.
I employed Heath Robinson techniques to set the tracking, again with good results. Those vent slots in the front spoiler are useful after all! I was confused for a while though, until I checked the front/rear track and found the rear track is wider than the front. School boy trigonometry time...
I employed Heath Robinson techniques to set the tracking, again with good results. Those vent slots in the front spoiler are useful after all! I was confused for a while though, until I checked the front/rear track and found the rear track is wider than the front. School boy trigonometry time...
Yes, I am planning to be at the Fest.
The plumbing changes are pretty simple and revolve around the expansion tank; and mimicing the SD1. The middle connection on the tank is now blanked off and the plenum heater return connected to the heater return pipe 8mm spigot. The bottom connection on the tank is now plumbed into a 38mmx15mm Tee piece in the bottom rad hose; replacing the original straight section. The top (vent) connection on the tank is taken down to an 8mm hose which is then 'teed' to the vent connections on the radiator and the swan neck.
Now the expansion tank always has air at the top and the engine (and the heater) is always full of coolant - big improvement! I did do a few other things along the way such as lowering the swan neck as much as possible, eliminating all the small leaks (corroded heater pipes under the inlet manifold), switching the heater hoses (the outlet needs to be at the top... TVR didn't seem to think so!) and replacing all the hoses and clips as a matter of course - they all help.
I also have a manual fan override which I use to simulate the viscous fans on the SD1/LRs; ie switch it on whenever the car is staionary. This stops the temp climbing in the first place...
The plumbing changes are pretty simple and revolve around the expansion tank; and mimicing the SD1. The middle connection on the tank is now blanked off and the plenum heater return connected to the heater return pipe 8mm spigot. The bottom connection on the tank is now plumbed into a 38mmx15mm Tee piece in the bottom rad hose; replacing the original straight section. The top (vent) connection on the tank is taken down to an 8mm hose which is then 'teed' to the vent connections on the radiator and the swan neck.
Now the expansion tank always has air at the top and the engine (and the heater) is always full of coolant - big improvement! I did do a few other things along the way such as lowering the swan neck as much as possible, eliminating all the small leaks (corroded heater pipes under the inlet manifold), switching the heater hoses (the outlet needs to be at the top... TVR didn't seem to think so!) and replacing all the hoses and clips as a matter of course - they all help.
I also have a manual fan override which I use to simulate the viscous fans on the SD1/LRs; ie switch it on whenever the car is staionary. This stops the temp climbing in the first place...
Updates... I've been using the car during the summer and having fun with it. I've done about 1000 miles, mostly locally but outings to the sausage meet, Hot Rod Diner in kent, Battlesbridge car show and the 'fest'
My general car philosophy is to get a car running well and then use them rather than polish them so the SEAC's not looking wonderful; but I'm happy with that.
I'm currently pondering what to do to it over the winter; I need to do something with the engine as the surrogate 4.2 I put in isn't behaving too well - I suspect cam wear as a result of the AFM shananigans and the resulting super-rich running. I'm not sure whether to refurbish the surrogate 4.2 (hopefully a 'simple' cam replacement) or to rebuild and refit the original engine. I will rebuild and refit the original in due course but that will take time, so I'm leaning towards refreshing the surrogate 4.2 and spending my time sorting other issues such as the roof, interior and body.
I'll post the cooling system stuff on the other thread I started...
http://www.pistonheads.com/gassing/topic.asp?h=5&a...
My general car philosophy is to get a car running well and then use them rather than polish them so the SEAC's not looking wonderful; but I'm happy with that.
I'm currently pondering what to do to it over the winter; I need to do something with the engine as the surrogate 4.2 I put in isn't behaving too well - I suspect cam wear as a result of the AFM shananigans and the resulting super-rich running. I'm not sure whether to refurbish the surrogate 4.2 (hopefully a 'simple' cam replacement) or to rebuild and refit the original engine. I will rebuild and refit the original in due course but that will take time, so I'm leaning towards refreshing the surrogate 4.2 and spending my time sorting other issues such as the roof, interior and body.
I'll post the cooling system stuff on the other thread I started...
http://www.pistonheads.com/gassing/topic.asp?h=5&a...
Hi Andrew, Great to hear you remember the car from it's time at the factory! I'm getting used to the handbrake, it works well enough, but it is in the way a bit - I guess when they were considering the narrower chassis nobody thougt too much about the details like the handbrake positioning...
Interesting to hear about TVR's product development techniques; I bet it was fun!
Martin
Interesting to hear about TVR's product development techniques; I bet it was fun!
Martin
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