The SX Wedges.
Discussion
I always think there's something of an irony in b1tching about TVRs being built from bits of other cars when so many of those donors themselves shared parts with other makes and models. Even Rolls-Royce used the same suspension spheres as Citroen and some of the most iconic cars ever built weren't so great until (typically) a bloody big engine was shoe-horned in - often a Yank V8 at that. Cobra, Jensen Interceptor, AC428 for starters... and the Porsche 924 shared its transmission with an Audi family saloon.
The great British Motor Corporation was responsible for probably more badge-engineering than any other car company ever (at least three different grilles and snobbery badges adorned the car often known as the Austin Cambridge, and a similar amount on the Mini-derived Austin/Morris/Wolseley 1300) and the great and glorious Ford designed an entirely new car for the 1980s (the Sierra) but gave it an engine that was designed in the 1960s (albeit introduced in 1970, before the pedants kick off
).
Even Noble used an off-the-shelf engine, where at least small-volume competitors TVR and Lotus had the balls to design and build their own engines when perceived wisdom said it shouldn't be done.
So f
k if the switches are from a mass-market tin box, my car is still and always only ever will be 1 of about 93 of that model built in the history of the known universe and even if 10 people have driven each and every one of the 2500 Wedges built, that's still only the population of a small town. More people died of AIDS every WEEK in 2012 and yet I bet for each 1 of them, 1000 'experts' will moan their t1ts off about how TVR built kit cars...
The great British Motor Corporation was responsible for probably more badge-engineering than any other car company ever (at least three different grilles and snobbery badges adorned the car often known as the Austin Cambridge, and a similar amount on the Mini-derived Austin/Morris/Wolseley 1300) and the great and glorious Ford designed an entirely new car for the 1980s (the Sierra) but gave it an engine that was designed in the 1960s (albeit introduced in 1970, before the pedants kick off
).Even Noble used an off-the-shelf engine, where at least small-volume competitors TVR and Lotus had the balls to design and build their own engines when perceived wisdom said it shouldn't be done.
So f
k if the switches are from a mass-market tin box, my car is still and always only ever will be 1 of about 93 of that model built in the history of the known universe and even if 10 people have driven each and every one of the 2500 Wedges built, that's still only the population of a small town. More people died of AIDS every WEEK in 2012 and yet I bet for each 1 of them, 1000 'experts' will moan their t1ts off about how TVR built kit cars...Wedg1e said:
I always think there's something of an irony in b1tching about TVRs being built from bits of other cars when so many of those donors themselves shared parts with other makes and models. Even Rolls-Royce used the same suspension spheres as Citroen and some of the most iconic cars ever built weren't so great until (typically) a bloody big engine was shoe-horned in - often a Yank V8 at that. Cobra, Jensen Interceptor, AC428 for starters... and the Porsche 924 shared its transmission with an Audi family saloon.
The great British Motor Corporation was responsible for probably more badge-engineering than any other car company ever (at least three different grilles and snobbery badges adorned the car often known as the Austin Cambridge, and a similar amount on the Mini-derived Austin/Morris/Wolseley 1300) and the great and glorious Ford designed an entirely new car for the 1980s (the Sierra) but gave it an engine that was designed in the 1960s (albeit introduced in 1970, before the pedants kick off).
Even Noble used an off-the-shelf engine, where at least small-volume competitors TVR and Lotus had the balls to design and build their own engines when perceived wisdom said it shouldn't be done.
So fk if the switches are from a mass-market tin box, my car is still and always only ever will be 1 of about 93 of that model built in the history of the known universe and even if 10 people have driven each and every one of the 2500 Wedges built, that's still only the population of a small town. More people died of AIDS every WEEK in 2012 and yet I bet for each 1 of them, 1000 'experts' will moan their t1ts off about how TVR built kit cars...
My point exactly...Its a fThe great British Motor Corporation was responsible for probably more badge-engineering than any other car company ever (at least three different grilles and snobbery badges adorned the car often known as the Austin Cambridge, and a similar amount on the Mini-derived Austin/Morris/Wolseley 1300) and the great and glorious Ford designed an entirely new car for the 1980s (the Sierra) but gave it an engine that was designed in the 1960s (albeit introduced in 1970, before the pedants kick off
).Even Noble used an off-the-shelf engine, where at least small-volume competitors TVR and Lotus had the balls to design and build their own engines when perceived wisdom said it shouldn't be done.
So f
k if the switches are from a mass-market tin box, my car is still and always only ever will be 1 of about 93 of that model built in the history of the known universe and even if 10 people have driven each and every one of the 2500 Wedges built, that's still only the population of a small town. More people died of AIDS every WEEK in 2012 and yet I bet for each 1 of them, 1000 'experts' will moan their t1ts off about how TVR built kit cars...king car...Imamate object....FFS. Anyone for a game of top trumps.Pick a number any number.My old SX lit my fire, as does a 200/280/350/390/400/430/450/SEAC.
We all love em, not a big cock show
Would it be harder to find a TVR wedge boot hinge off a 350i than find a boot hinge of an Hillman Imp that fit a wedge.....? Its a car at the end of the day.
Rob
Wedg1e and Carob - just to be clear, the *LAST* thing I was doing was complaining !
So if it came across that way, it wasn't my intention.
I agree with both of you - the auto industry shared and continues to share a LOT of stuff.
Kit cars weren't a bad thing at all IMHO, and several of them were excellent cars (when assembled correctly !), some going on to be good rally examples, and so on. I was using the kit idea as the nearest parallel to TVR (and probably Lotus and Reliant fall in here too)
I regard the wedges as excellent cars, but *EVERY* vehicle I've ever owned had poor design/build points somewhere, even the mass munufactured ones had compromises which I reckon would be down to cost or build convenience. I think my wedge has more niggles than say a Ford Sierra, but then exactly as you say, TVR didn't build a million wedges...
(and how many times does a so called 'high performance' mass model turn out to be the same old shell with a bigger engine and slightly stiffer suspension....with the clever paint job and a few bits of bling of course....
I'd much rather have a TVR !)
So if it came across that way, it wasn't my intention.
I agree with both of you - the auto industry shared and continues to share a LOT of stuff.
Kit cars weren't a bad thing at all IMHO, and several of them were excellent cars (when assembled correctly !), some going on to be good rally examples, and so on. I was using the kit idea as the nearest parallel to TVR (and probably Lotus and Reliant fall in here too)
I regard the wedges as excellent cars, but *EVERY* vehicle I've ever owned had poor design/build points somewhere, even the mass munufactured ones had compromises which I reckon would be down to cost or build convenience. I think my wedge has more niggles than say a Ford Sierra, but then exactly as you say, TVR didn't build a million wedges...
(and how many times does a so called 'high performance' mass model turn out to be the same old shell with a bigger engine and slightly stiffer suspension....with the clever paint job and a few bits of bling of course....
I'd much rather have a TVR !)
No sweat Andy, I wasn't having a pop at anyone in particular, just at the concept of people moaning (usually about something they've never owned, like Skoda in the old days)... and yes, funny how people wk themselves blind over whatever sthotfast box is flavour of the month, yet underneath they're almost all just a family saloon with a huge engine. On that theme, I've always wondered how two of the most raved about, the Impreza and the Skyline, were allowed to go on looking so tediously bland when the mechanicals were so capable. Imagine if Subaru or Nissan had come up with say the Audi R8 shape, with the Skyline's performance and the Impreza's handling, nobody else would get a look-in 
k themselves blind over whatever sthotfast box is flavour of the month, yet underneath they're almost all just a family saloon with a huge engine. On that theme, I've always wondered how two of the most raved about, the Impreza and the Skyline, were allowed to go on looking so tediously bland when the mechanicals were so capable. Imagine if Subaru or Nissan had come up with say the Audi R8 shape, with the Skyline's performance and the Impreza's handling, nobody else would get a look-in RCK974X said:
W I was using the kit idea as the nearest parallel to TVR (and probably Lotus and Reliant fall in here too)
I had an Esprit and in many ways it was built just like the TVR wedges - for example the firewall trim panel behind the seats is held in by a length of wooden dowel and four central heating pipe clips. Lots of the trim panels were thermo-formed sheet plastic, rather than laid-up GRP, so were lighter and looked more 'designed' than lashed-up... but of course lightness was Lotus' mantra.Reliant to a degree were dependant on the post-war peniless masses who often had no car licence but did have a bike licence, on which it was permissible to drive a trike... a Regal or Rebel with a roof was better for a young family than an AJS350 or BSA Gold Star with a sidecar! As that generation faded away they had to turn to 'proper' cars and the Scimitar wasn't a bad effort; looked better in the later, wide-body style but was always powered by a boat-anchor of an engine. Maybe if they'd gone for a small-block Chevy it could have been serious competition for cars like the Gordon-Keeble, Gilbern Invader et al - maybe even had the Interceptor worried! Like the TVR Wedge the Scim is heavily built; only Lotus ever really used thin GRP on their shells, everyone else seems to have been trying to make them as strong as steel.
The later Scimitar SS1 was an ill-proportioned thing like, ironically, a lot of kit-cars. Although the 1.8 Turbo went like stink it still looked like something off the Jetsons.
As to a remark I read earlier about TVR deliberately leaving big panel gaps (Chimaera/ Griff doors, anyone?) because 'precision' in GRP is too difficult, has anyone looked closely at a Noble lately? First time I saw one I thought the shell was made from aluminium, the fit was that good...
I have no problem with them being made from buckets of bits, as said thats why i love em..
...Just wish i could find a few buckets with the bits still in...Just trying to find something like the demister vents or the original ashtrays recently was a total head funk ...Mind you it was a trip down memory lane to see some of the cars that were around then...Theres not one bit of my Wedge that i don't like..Or would want to change for something else..When i eventually change the suspension as its a bit tired now i want to replace with the same set up as originally fitted..I don't mind the firm ride..If i want to drive a sponge i would buy a citroen.. I only changed the switches in the 280 because i couldn't find any decent originals..Apart from the headlight switch... 
...Just wish i could find a few buckets with the bits still in...Just trying to find something like the demister vents or the original ashtrays recently was a total head funk ...Mind you it was a trip down memory lane to see some of the cars that were around then...Theres not one bit of my Wedge that i don't like..Or would want to change for something else..When i eventually change the suspension as its a bit tired now i want to replace with the same set up as originally fitted..I don't mind the firm ride..If i want to drive a sponge i would buy a citroen.. I only changed the switches in the 280 because i couldn't find any decent originals..Apart from the headlight switch... RCK974X said:
Wedg1e and Carob - just to be clear, the *LAST* thing I was doing was complaining !
So if it came across that way, it wasn't my intention.
I agree with both of you - the auto industry shared and continues to share a LOT of stuff.
Kit cars weren't a bad thing at all IMHO, and several of them were excellent cars (when assembled correctly !), some going on to be good rally examples, and so on. I was using the kit idea as the nearest parallel to TVR (and probably Lotus and Reliant fall in here too)
I regard the wedges as excellent cars, but *EVERY* vehicle I've ever owned had poor design/build points somewhere, even the mass munufactured ones had compromises which I reckon would be down to cost or build convenience. I think my wedge has more niggles than say a Ford Sierra, but then exactly as you say, TVR didn't build a million wedges...
(and how many times does a so called 'high performance' mass model turn out to be the same old shell with a bigger engine and slightly stiffer suspension....with the clever paint job and a few bits of bling of course....
I'd much rather have a TVR !)
No worries Andy, I know where you are coming from. So if it came across that way, it wasn't my intention.
I agree with both of you - the auto industry shared and continues to share a LOT of stuff.
Kit cars weren't a bad thing at all IMHO, and several of them were excellent cars (when assembled correctly !), some going on to be good rally examples, and so on. I was using the kit idea as the nearest parallel to TVR (and probably Lotus and Reliant fall in here too)
I regard the wedges as excellent cars, but *EVERY* vehicle I've ever owned had poor design/build points somewhere, even the mass munufactured ones had compromises which I reckon would be down to cost or build convenience. I think my wedge has more niggles than say a Ford Sierra, but then exactly as you say, TVR didn't build a million wedges...
(and how many times does a so called 'high performance' mass model turn out to be the same old shell with a bigger engine and slightly stiffer suspension....with the clever paint job and a few bits of bling of course....
I'd much rather have a TVR !)
Rob
mrzigazaga said:
When i eventually change the suspension as its a bit tired now i want to replace with the same set up as originally fitted..I don't mind the firm ride..If i want to drive a sponge i would buy a citroen.
I wouldn't bother looking; the Armstrongs will be very difficult to find and they weren't that good - they were almost a service item. The Koni's that the factory fitted later were much better.Wedg1e said:
As to a remark I read earlier about TVR deliberately leaving big panel gaps (Chimaera/ Griff doors, anyone?) because 'precision' in GRP is too difficult, has anyone looked closely at a Noble lately? First time I saw one I thought the shell was made from aluminium, the fit was that good...
I thought that was exactly why the Chim/Cerb and Griff doors were designed with hidden leading edge? Cos it made it easy to get a good shut line on the rear cos they didn't have to worry about a massive gap at the front. Basically helped save time and make production easier - looking good may well have been a by product! Or is this urban myth? (there's so many!)Englishman said:
Yes, given to me by David himself. Not too many around - may be worth more than the cars ;o)
One thing people wouldn't know unless they'd visted his garage, was that he had a parrot. He let it fly around the garage too. You didn't want to leave your car there too long if you were worried about the paintwork! Was certainly a personality.
That would go nicely with my car......One thing people wouldn't know unless they'd visted his garage, was that he had a parrot. He let it fly around the garage too. You didn't want to leave your car there too long if you were worried about the paintwork! Was certainly a personality.
Edited by Englishman on Friday 8th August 22:28
If you decide to part with it can I have first dibs??
Cheers
Adam
Wedg1e said:
TA14 said:
mrzigazaga said:
When i eventually change the suspension as its a bit tired now i want to replace with the same set up as originally fitted..I don't mind the firm ride..If i want to drive a sponge i would buy a citroen.
I wouldn't bother looking; the Armstrongs will be very difficult to find and they weren't that good - they were almost a service item. The Koni's that the factory fitted later were much better.
My rear suspension is going back together with a pair of used Konis that someone GAVE me a few years back: they're actually in better shape than the ones I took off the car
No leaks, damper rod pitting etc., but the paint and bushes are rough, the replacements are far tidier. They were, however, set to two different damping settings so I wonder if the previous owner hadn't twigged and thought one or other was faulty.
Scimitars....I owned one for a while, and in some ways they were great, but also terrible too. Let down by some poor decisions. The old Essex did go well, FAR better at low rpm than the 2.8, but as you say it was a LOT heavier, and it definitely made the car nose heavy. The one I bought cheap had a crack down the dash moulding, which was impossible to fix up (don't think it was even GRP but moulded plastic), it had leaks around the rear glass which I never could fix, and one day it MELTED the throttle cable...
I discovered that with a dodgy earth, the current return path from the engine block was via the throttle cable...great design guys !!
After a while it developed this terrible rumble from the rear wheel bearings, which were WORSE than the wedge to replace.... But then with a small block or a Rover V8, it would have been a different vehicle entirely, I agree.
I built and owned a Marlin kit for a LONG time, and it was fabulous in its way, designed to be basic with excellent handling, and simple but strong chassis up to rallying use. Even with a Triumph six in the front (designed to sit a lot further back than GT6 or Vitesse) it wasn't very nose heavy, and it went very well. I miss it in some ways, but without doors, it became a bit hard to get in and out of. When I decided to move to NZ, I brought the TVRs instead.
Notably, the main body panels are aluminium, not GRP, which meant they were ripple free, and sort of period correct...
I still think the best 'camoflage' car I ever drove was an M535i Alpina turbo (the square body 5 series - I think it was the dual turbo one). It had bigger tyres, and just one little badge at the back, and a small spoiler. It sported well over 300 horses under the bonnet, and yet was just like every other 5 series around. It was even that boring maroon that was so common then. Putting your foot down was just incredible... it stayed so creamy smooth, yet the power delivery was gigantic. But then I remember the owner telling me he was on his third boot hinge, due to a silly little design fault, and the seats were FAR too hard. Go figure....
I won't mention the scary kits, but if you ever look under at the so-called chassis of a certain kit model with the initials DP, you'll know what I mean....
I discovered that with a dodgy earth, the current return path from the engine block was via the throttle cable...great design guys !!
After a while it developed this terrible rumble from the rear wheel bearings, which were WORSE than the wedge to replace.... But then with a small block or a Rover V8, it would have been a different vehicle entirely, I agree.
I built and owned a Marlin kit for a LONG time, and it was fabulous in its way, designed to be basic with excellent handling, and simple but strong chassis up to rallying use. Even with a Triumph six in the front (designed to sit a lot further back than GT6 or Vitesse) it wasn't very nose heavy, and it went very well. I miss it in some ways, but without doors, it became a bit hard to get in and out of. When I decided to move to NZ, I brought the TVRs instead.
Notably, the main body panels are aluminium, not GRP, which meant they were ripple free, and sort of period correct...
I still think the best 'camoflage' car I ever drove was an M535i Alpina turbo (the square body 5 series - I think it was the dual turbo one). It had bigger tyres, and just one little badge at the back, and a small spoiler. It sported well over 300 horses under the bonnet, and yet was just like every other 5 series around. It was even that boring maroon that was so common then. Putting your foot down was just incredible... it stayed so creamy smooth, yet the power delivery was gigantic. But then I remember the owner telling me he was on his third boot hinge, due to a silly little design fault, and the seats were FAR too hard. Go figure....
I won't mention the scary kits, but if you ever look under at the so-called chassis of a certain kit model with the initials DP, you'll know what I mean....
Edited by RCK974X on Sunday 10th August 01:31
Correct me if I'm wrong but I thought this thread was about the SX not sty other car manufactures (kit cars)...
I've read plenty of stuff where some say TVR were just fully built kit cars and I know is the 50s 60s they offered part built cars for tax purposes and we the owners get to finish off out cars from the factory but put it this was, when you wedge is running right and on song how dose it make you feel, when you car in a totally hand built car for its day, there would of only been a few manufactures out there at the time building totally hands on car let alone TVR, for me it feels great.
Can we please get back on subject....
ty other car manufactures (kit cars)...I've read plenty of stuff where some say TVR were just fully built kit cars and I know is the 50s 60s they offered part built cars for tax purposes and we the owners get to finish off out cars from the factory but put it this was, when you wedge is running right and on song how dose it make you feel, when you car in a totally hand built car for its day, there would of only been a few manufactures out there at the time building totally hands on car let alone TVR, for me it feels great.
Can we please get back on subject....
Campbell said:
Correct me if I'm wrong but I thought this thread was about the SX not sty other car manufactures (kit cars)...
I've read plenty of stuff where some say TVR were just fully built kit cars and I know is the 50s 60s they offered part built cars for tax purposes and we the owners get to finish off out cars from the factory but put it this was, when you wedge is running right and on song how dose it make you feel, when you car in a totally hand built car for its day, there would of only been a few manufactures out there at the time building totally hands on car let alone TVR, for me it feels great.
Can we please get back on subject....
ty other car manufactures (kit cars)...I've read plenty of stuff where some say TVR were just fully built kit cars and I know is the 50s 60s they offered part built cars for tax purposes and we the owners get to finish off out cars from the factory but put it this was, when you wedge is running right and on song how dose it make you feel, when you car in a totally hand built car for its day, there would of only been a few manufactures out there at the time building totally hands on car let alone TVR, for me it feels great.
Can we please get back on subject....
It was but OP's question was dealt with half a thread ago and moved on to general TVR build quality and a bit of banter in the interim.
That's the trouble with forums, you can have a bit of banter and a laugh.....or maybe not
Very true Smash..Thats what makes this forum better than any other...Whenever we have a mass debate things always get heated....A bit of light relief is always good in-between...()
It used to really annoy me when people would call my Wedge a kit car but no car is carved from a solid piece of metal..My joy is telling people "Its a hand built British sports car"..Mine have changed my life for the better..And a big plus is that i have inherited with it a load of new friends who are all carve from the same block of carbon..Diamond...
Its nice also to see the ex-missus..Thanks for posting a pic....
)It used to really annoy me when people would call my Wedge a kit car but no car is carved from a solid piece of metal..My joy is telling people "Its a hand built British sports car"..Mine have changed my life for the better..And a big plus is that i have inherited with it a load of new friends who are all carve from the same block of carbon..Diamond...
Its nice also to see the ex-missus..Thanks for posting a pic....
smash said:
Campbell said:
Correct me if I'm wrong but I thought this thread was about the SX not sty other car manufactures (kit cars)...
I've read plenty of stuff where some say TVR were just fully built kit cars and I know is the 50s 60s they offered part built cars for tax purposes and we the owners get to finish off out cars from the factory but put it this was, when you wedge is running right and on song how dose it make you feel, when you car in a totally hand built car for its day, there would of only been a few manufactures out there at the time building totally hands on car let alone TVR, for me it feels great.
Can we please get back on subject....
ty other car manufactures (kit cars)...I've read plenty of stuff where some say TVR were just fully built kit cars and I know is the 50s 60s they offered part built cars for tax purposes and we the owners get to finish off out cars from the factory but put it this was, when you wedge is running right and on song how dose it make you feel, when you car in a totally hand built car for its day, there would of only been a few manufactures out there at the time building totally hands on car let alone TVR, for me it feels great.
Can we please get back on subject....
It was but OP's question was dealt with half a thread ago and moved on to general TVR build quality and a bit of banter in the interim.
That's the trouble with forums, you can have a bit of banter and a laugh.....or maybe not
classThanks for the readjustment and probably needed it too this morning...
And I too like a bit of banter and a laugh and like Zig want this forum to be one of the best.
Still interesting reading.
Cambelt
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