Discussion
Interesting stuff, Roop, how do you know this? Is the clue in your name?! If one of the 390s morphed into the SEAC racer then it would explain Chris Schirle's comment that there were four stainless cars - but I'd previously thought I could count 5.
Ian, the injectors are 0-280-150-153. Jag?
I got the intake manifold off today, the ports are huge and the cylinder head runners are polished...
Ian, the injectors are 0-280-150-153. Jag?
I got the intake manifold off today, the ports are huge and the cylinder head runners are polished...
Roop, it must have been exciting being around the racing wedges, any stories to tell??!!
I've got the valley gasket off now; it's in amazing condition inside the engine...
I've been exceptionally lucky here though; the valley gasket had corroded right though, so if the car had been left much longer I suspect the engine would have filled up with water!
I've got the valley gasket off now; it's in amazing condition inside the engine...
I've been exceptionally lucky here though; the valley gasket had corroded right though, so if the car had been left much longer I suspect the engine would have filled up with water!
Anyone had any good experiences with injector cleaning?
7 of the injectors look OK, like the two on the right in the pic. The one on the left of the pic looks dodgy to me, as if the pintle has stuck open. The ports don't look different on the cylinder that this injector was feeding, but if the injector was stuck open when the car was last running then I suspect it's well and truly stuck now! Cleaning's not cheap and I don't want to throw money away if this one won't clean up and then I'm left with only 7 working injectors.
My first thoughts were to get a replacement injector, but it appears that Jag only used these injectors (0280 150 153) on their 4.2 straight 6 for a very short time and then they changed to another part number (0280 150 166). Anyone know if this 166 injector would be a mismatch in it's operation to the others? Buying 8 new injectors doesn't appeal either...
7 of the injectors look OK, like the two on the right in the pic. The one on the left of the pic looks dodgy to me, as if the pintle has stuck open. The ports don't look different on the cylinder that this injector was feeding, but if the injector was stuck open when the car was last running then I suspect it's well and truly stuck now! Cleaning's not cheap and I don't want to throw money away if this one won't clean up and then I'm left with only 7 working injectors.
My first thoughts were to get a replacement injector, but it appears that Jag only used these injectors (0280 150 153) on their 4.2 straight 6 for a very short time and then they changed to another part number (0280 150 166). Anyone know if this 166 injector would be a mismatch in it's operation to the others? Buying 8 new injectors doesn't appeal either...
That ebay guy's not as expensive as I'd thought - I'll give it a punt, thanks guys!
I've split the engine and gearbox now, it was a little scary and took some force as the dowels had rusted and locked.
The clutch is pretty worn as well as corroded, but looks different to the one I took out of my 350 (the 350 one is the rusty one on the left, it's been outside for a while). Both are Borg and Beck.
What's peoples thoughts on clutches? There's no markings on the SEAC cover other than 'Type 9 - 9 1/2'. Should I go for an uprated clutch? They seem to be £400 ish. I'd have thought a standard clutch on a fully laden Rover Vitesse with 190 bhp and a caravan on the back would have a harder life than anything a 420 engine can throw at it. Any thoughts?
I've split the engine and gearbox now, it was a little scary and took some force as the dowels had rusted and locked.
The clutch is pretty worn as well as corroded, but looks different to the one I took out of my 350 (the 350 one is the rusty one on the left, it's been outside for a while). Both are Borg and Beck.
What's peoples thoughts on clutches? There's no markings on the SEAC cover other than 'Type 9 - 9 1/2'. Should I go for an uprated clutch? They seem to be £400 ish. I'd have thought a standard clutch on a fully laden Rover Vitesse with 190 bhp and a caravan on the back would have a harder life than anything a 420 engine can throw at it. Any thoughts?
I hope I don't have problems getting a clutch, that could put a spanner in the works!
Andy, I've not ripped everything off the car all at once; alot of it is back together and functioning. The suspension, brakes, steering, electrics and essential body repairs are done; this weekend I finished off the fuel system:
Just got to get the engine back in and running now. It won't be looking pretty at the fest and it may not have an interior; but my aim is MOTed and drivable not beauty!
That thread about wrapping looks interesting...
Andy, I've not ripped everything off the car all at once; alot of it is back together and functioning. The suspension, brakes, steering, electrics and essential body repairs are done; this weekend I finished off the fuel system:
Just got to get the engine back in and running now. It won't be looking pretty at the fest and it may not have an interior; but my aim is MOTed and drivable not beauty!
That thread about wrapping looks interesting...
Injectors have been sent off for cleaning/test... I hope they'll come up to scratch.
Changed the gearbox oil; it seems SMX-S has been superceeded by 'systrans' - Opie reckon it's OK so I hope so. Magnetic sump plugs always give me a scare; but I guess it's better on the plug rather than floating around the gearbox:
It's a breeze changing the oil with the gearbox out. No large metal pieces on the sump plug so hopefully all OK. Chris Schirle said this car has a close ratio box built by TWR for the Group 1 SD1s, same as the 420 SEAC racer, so I hope it's in good working order.
I can see the exhaust now. I trial fitted it to check all the threads, 15 out of 16 are OK...
Changed the gearbox oil; it seems SMX-S has been superceeded by 'systrans' - Opie reckon it's OK so I hope so. Magnetic sump plugs always give me a scare; but I guess it's better on the plug rather than floating around the gearbox:
It's a breeze changing the oil with the gearbox out. No large metal pieces on the sump plug so hopefully all OK. Chris Schirle said this car has a close ratio box built by TWR for the Group 1 SD1s, same as the 420 SEAC racer, so I hope it's in good working order.
I can see the exhaust now. I trial fitted it to check all the threads, 15 out of 16 are OK...
Fest is still the target Mr Zig, though I now have a dilema. The cam is quite heavily worn on one exhaust lobe and a second is showing significant wear too. The valve lift is .5 inch so it's quite a hairy cam, and it looks like it's machined from solid. If I strip the engine and change the cam now then I'll have to spend a lot of time making sure the new cam does the business without hitting the pistons and valve guides... and I'll probably find other things that need doing while I'm in there that'll hold me up. This wear is not the result of the long lay up so my inclination is to put the engine back together as it is just to prove all the other systems are OK and then change the cam later on once I've got the engine running. My 350 has a badly worn cam lobe and runs pretty well so I think I'll get it running first then sort the cam later; also I can change the 350 cam as a dry run for working on the SEAC cam.
The lifters were confusing me as they don't bleed down when the engine is turned over. They have circlips inside them rather than the standard wire clip things. I think they must be Rhoads lifters, which are designed to tame a wild cam to give decent low engine speed performance without affecting the top end. I'll investigate more when I get around to changing the cam.
Leigh, I'm planning on using allen headed bolts to hold the exhaust on, as you say you can't get a ring spanner on hex headed bolts. You're welcome to come over any time!
I've got the injectors back from the cleaning place; a very good result. They were leaking/blocked with a poor spray pattern but have all cleaned up OK; one was only flowing 49 cc/min vs 240 cc/min ish for a healthy XJ6 injector.
The lifters were confusing me as they don't bleed down when the engine is turned over. They have circlips inside them rather than the standard wire clip things. I think they must be Rhoads lifters, which are designed to tame a wild cam to give decent low engine speed performance without affecting the top end. I'll investigate more when I get around to changing the cam.
Leigh, I'm planning on using allen headed bolts to hold the exhaust on, as you say you can't get a ring spanner on hex headed bolts. You're welcome to come over any time!
I've got the injectors back from the cleaning place; a very good result. They were leaking/blocked with a poor spray pattern but have all cleaned up OK; one was only flowing 49 cc/min vs 240 cc/min ish for a healthy XJ6 injector.
Adam, The worst cam lobe is worn to half height, so the exhaust valve will probably be OK at low engine speeds. I'll try and get a feel for the valve duration to see how bad that is to help the decision. The valve clearance on that valve seems to be similar to the others (almost nothing!) so I suspect it's been like this for some time, and the wear has been dialed out with the adjustable pushrod.
Leigh, The valve clearances seem to be non-existent, that's one reason i think they're Rhoads lifters as the sdvice for setting up a Rhoads is to compress the lifter by half a turn on the adjuster. I can just about get a 0.05mm feeler gauge on the head of the valves with some force - weird. Good idea to get the cam matched by JE, I hadn't thought of that.
The injectors were done by a place in Devizes by mail order, see a well known auction site... Service was excellent.
That braided hose between the rocker covers was confusing me as it's only flowing air and there's an internal link between the rocker cover cavities via the pushrod holes that also flows air. Chris Schirle told me it was one of his additions to get good/balanced air flow through the crankcase to make the dry sump system work properly and get good oil drain down.
Leigh, The valve clearances seem to be non-existent, that's one reason i think they're Rhoads lifters as the sdvice for setting up a Rhoads is to compress the lifter by half a turn on the adjuster. I can just about get a 0.05mm feeler gauge on the head of the valves with some force - weird. Good idea to get the cam matched by JE, I hadn't thought of that.
The injectors were done by a place in Devizes by mail order, see a well known auction site... Service was excellent.
That braided hose between the rocker covers was confusing me as it's only flowing air and there's an internal link between the rocker cover cavities via the pushrod holes that also flows air. Chris Schirle told me it was one of his additions to get good/balanced air flow through the crankcase to make the dry sump system work properly and get good oil drain down.
Very interesting Leigh, sounds like the cam won't be a problem for a while.
Cambelt, I'm probably going to pull the engine out again at some point as it's actually not too difficult to do when you have the right gear (many thanks again Leigh!). I'm not sure I've even got room to slide the crank pulley off the nose of the crank with the engine in situ due to the chassis cross braces, so I suspect I couldn't do it easily with the engine in the car anyway:
Cambelt, I'm probably going to pull the engine out again at some point as it's actually not too difficult to do when you have the right gear (many thanks again Leigh!). I'm not sure I've even got room to slide the crank pulley off the nose of the crank with the engine in situ due to the chassis cross braces, so I suspect I couldn't do it easily with the engine in the car anyway:
Engine back in now...
I'm leaving all the Ally natural for now, I'll sort it some other time.
Getting the intake manifold on was a struggle; I couldn't get it to fit over the composite gasket so I had to resort to a tin one to get the manifold to align with the threaded holes in the heads. The tin gasket is only 0.2mm thick, the composite one was more than 1mm. I guess the heads have been skimmed or the block decked... or both. The head gaskets look and feel weird too; they stick out slightly into the valley and they appear to be a rigid plastic type material about 1mm thick. Curious!
I'm leaving all the Ally natural for now, I'll sort it some other time.
Getting the intake manifold on was a struggle; I couldn't get it to fit over the composite gasket so I had to resort to a tin one to get the manifold to align with the threaded holes in the heads. The tin gasket is only 0.2mm thick, the composite one was more than 1mm. I guess the heads have been skimmed or the block decked... or both. The head gaskets look and feel weird too; they stick out slightly into the valley and they appear to be a rigid plastic type material about 1mm thick. Curious!
Getting on... bits of interior back in, electric windows going up and down to order.
I'm on a countdown to starting the engine now; it's even got fuel in it.
If anyone needs a set of top and bottom rad hoses, buy a set for a Rover SD1 - Clearly TVR did just that and chopped them up to suit!
I'm on a countdown to starting the engine now; it's even got fuel in it.
If anyone needs a set of top and bottom rad hoses, buy a set for a Rover SD1 - Clearly TVR did just that and chopped them up to suit!
This is my first attempt at youtube-ism, so I hope it works...
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oqePEqhEan4&fea...
It's on youtube as 'tvr 420 seac rescue'
This really was first turn of the key with all systems connected!! I had been turning it over on the starter beforehand to circulate the oil though.
It's only running on 7 at the moment but this is a huge step forward! It seems the fuel injector is not injecting on no1 cylinder, I'm off to study Ramon's vintagemodelaeroplane site.
second video:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5fdCbD-0VQo&fea...
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oqePEqhEan4&fea...
It's on youtube as 'tvr 420 seac rescue'
This really was first turn of the key with all systems connected!! I had been turning it over on the starter beforehand to circulate the oil though.
It's only running on 7 at the moment but this is a huge step forward! It seems the fuel injector is not injecting on no1 cylinder, I'm off to study Ramon's vintagemodelaeroplane site.
second video:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5fdCbD-0VQo&fea...
Edited by The Hatter on Saturday 9th June 20:38
Edited by The Hatter on Saturday 9th June 20:41
Edited by The Hatter on Saturday 9th June 20:49
Edited by The Hatter on Saturday 9th June 20:50
Well chuffed!
Second start, running smoother but still only on 7.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=X5OUhTlluG8&fea...
Chris, I'm guessing I need a 'scope to check the trigger voltage - which I don't have access to. Or can I somehow use a normal digital voltmeter?
I'm thinking that tomorrow I'll check the continuity at the ECU connector then start swapping things from cylinder to cylinder; and if that doesn't work I'll pilfer stuff from the 350i to try and isolate the problem.
Any other ideas?
I'm thinking that tomorrow I'll check the continuity at the ECU connector then start swapping things from cylinder to cylinder; and if that doesn't work I'll pilfer stuff from the 350i to try and isolate the problem.
Any other ideas?
Thanks for all the encouragement chaps!
I've got it running on all 8 now, and it's sounding pretty damn good...
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=u0t37OOSpFI
The whole car shakes like a beast on tickover, but the engine smooths out as it's reved up.
All the wiring checked out OK, it turned out to be a sticky injector; when I had them cleaned they came back with a warning that this might happen due to the cleaning fluid used. The remedy was a sharp tap with a hammer...
I've got it running on all 8 now, and it's sounding pretty damn good...
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=u0t37OOSpFI
The whole car shakes like a beast on tickover, but the engine smooths out as it's reved up.
All the wiring checked out OK, it turned out to be a sticky injector; when I had them cleaned they came back with a warning that this might happen due to the cleaning fluid used. The remedy was a sharp tap with a hammer...
Hi Chris,
I was very pleased with how it went/stopped/cornered/rode on the limited road system at Ettington so now I'm into finer fettling. I'm not happy with the engine's clattering and lumpy idle; I think it's down to the worn cam which can only get worse and scatter metal debris through the engine so I've decided to renew the cam. That means the engine's got to come out again; new cam (I'll get JE to match it), rhodes lifters and timing chain/wheels if necessary.
Then it's seat belts, number plates (fiddly front polycarbonate panel fettling!), windscreen, tyres --- and then MOT; and hooning will begin. That is, after I've sorted the wipers (thanks Ian for the Pektron work!) and the lights (dodgy wiring/connectors; second time lucky!?)
There's other niggles too which I suspect have been there since the car was new but I want to sort them for my own peace of mind; the dry sump pump belt rubs on the chassis when the engine rocks under power so I need to rethink the bracket/belt/tensioner; and the driver's window hits the door frame when it goes down into the door. I like roof off and window down motoring so I need to sort that.
Then there's new carpets/hood (one for the professionals I think). And repair the kevlar/carbon fibre bonnet crack where some lout has tried to jemmy the bonnet open. And the front spoiler's got a chunk broken out of it where another oaf has attached a tow rope.
I'm taking a SEAC breather at the moment though, other projects need attention and I need my life back! I'm hoping most/all of the above will be sorted for BBWF2013... I want to drive it there this time and hit the rolling road.
Martin
I was very pleased with how it went/stopped/cornered/rode on the limited road system at Ettington so now I'm into finer fettling. I'm not happy with the engine's clattering and lumpy idle; I think it's down to the worn cam which can only get worse and scatter metal debris through the engine so I've decided to renew the cam. That means the engine's got to come out again; new cam (I'll get JE to match it), rhodes lifters and timing chain/wheels if necessary.
Then it's seat belts, number plates (fiddly front polycarbonate panel fettling!), windscreen, tyres --- and then MOT; and hooning will begin. That is, after I've sorted the wipers (thanks Ian for the Pektron work!) and the lights (dodgy wiring/connectors; second time lucky!?)
There's other niggles too which I suspect have been there since the car was new but I want to sort them for my own peace of mind; the dry sump pump belt rubs on the chassis when the engine rocks under power so I need to rethink the bracket/belt/tensioner; and the driver's window hits the door frame when it goes down into the door. I like roof off and window down motoring so I need to sort that.
Then there's new carpets/hood (one for the professionals I think). And repair the kevlar/carbon fibre bonnet crack where some lout has tried to jemmy the bonnet open. And the front spoiler's got a chunk broken out of it where another oaf has attached a tow rope.
I'm taking a SEAC breather at the moment though, other projects need attention and I need my life back! I'm hoping most/all of the above will be sorted for BBWF2013... I want to drive it there this time and hit the rolling road.
Martin
I'm back onto the SEAC now after a long break working on other things. I thought I'd start on the rear lights and numberplate whilst I steel myself for taking the engine out again for the cam change (The crank pulley fouls the chassis with the engine in the car). I have a new set of lights off a late 350 and they have extra bolts stuck on to hold them in place:
Not sure if this is a feature off later wedges but I don't want to cut the Kevlar to be able to use the bolts so they've got to be removed.
The car has been resprayed at some point but they didn't remove the rear number plate for the spray job so the original paint remains behind the plate. The surface finish is pretty awful, I wonder if this is an example of why they had to stop using Kevlar for the SEACs?
And I can't resist a reminder of what the car was like when found; there appears to have been a squirrel or something similar living in the boot...
Not sure if this is a feature off later wedges but I don't want to cut the Kevlar to be able to use the bolts so they've got to be removed.
The car has been resprayed at some point but they didn't remove the rear number plate for the spray job so the original paint remains behind the plate. The surface finish is pretty awful, I wonder if this is an example of why they had to stop using Kevlar for the SEACs?
And I can't resist a reminder of what the car was like when found; there appears to have been a squirrel or something similar living in the boot...
I got the instrument panel out again ready to sort the windscreen and was met with a puddle under the heater.
You can see the matrix inside the heater box when you take out the fan motor; but there's no way of getting to the matrix - I'll have to cut a hole in the heater box to get the matrix out and then try and identify it or get it recored...
You can see the matrix inside the heater box when you take out the fan motor; but there's no way of getting to the matrix - I'll have to cut a hole in the heater box to get the matrix out and then try and identify it or get it recored...
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