fuel pump power 85 wedge federal

[jforrester42]

3.07 makes since with the "flat" feel. I will have to get used to using lower gears than my TR-6 around town. No detonation so I will look at the timing. Gas here in Oklahoma is actually pretty good. I buy no ethanol ($2.29 a gallon) with a USA rating of 91 octane. Normal E10 this morning was $2.17 a US gallon! A bit cheaper than in the UK!
My car has a hydraulic clutch and the feel is good, I think all US cars had a hydraulic clutch system.
Sounds like your seat cushion is MUCH lower than mine. I had the seats reupholstered and did not pay attention to how thick the cushion came out. They look and feel very good but the wheel and leg interference is a real problem.
Thanks for your comments,
John

[jforrester42]

Wow, two inches for the seat thickness. Just measured mine a 5 inches from the bottom to the top at the front of the cushion. Does not change much with me in it, cushion is pretty firm. Three inches would make a world of difference in the gap to the bottom of the wheel.
I do not recall seeing 95 octane since they changed they way they rate it here in the US some years ago. Local premium is 93. Regular is 87 E10. My 86 Corvette is very happy with the 93. TR-6 seems to run on most any rating. My 2014 Ford Fusion "Eco Tech" 2 litre turbo is happy with the 87 and Ford claims it is ok with up to E15. For the older cars I use no ethanol fuel.
I will try to get used to the gear ratios before thinking of changing the axle ratio.
Thanks again,
John

[jforrester42]

The stock Momo wheel on the car measures 13.5 inches and is slightly dished. I don't think I want to go smaller without power steering. I defiantly don't have Popeye arms. I have a appointment with the upholstery shop that did the seats for me on Friday to see about making the seat cushion thinner. Will also discuss replacing the top and recovering the top panel outside and inside. Going to go with low maintenance vinyl in place of the original cloth.
I have deleted both front mufflers and the exhaust does not seem to loud.
"Up to 10% ethanol" 87 octane fuel dropped to $2.03 a gallon today here in NE Oklahoma
Cheers,
John

[jforrester42]

I wonder if the octane ratings are the same around the world? Ratings used to be much higher in the US due to the "Motors" method of testing. There was also the "Research" method that gave a lower number. They changed some years ago to the average of the two methods. My 1970 Chevrolet SS called for 100 octane when it was new. With the introduction of unleaded fuel the numbers also went down. For some time there was no "high octane" fuel and the SS ran so poorly on the available fuel I sold the car. Most of the old cars seem to be ok now with the current so called "premium". Any idea on comparisons of the fuel ratings around the world?? Interesting your 98 octane uses E10. E10 fuels here are cheaper than no ethanol and are pretty much the standard. The corn producers and refiners are trying to get E15 to be standard but many manufacturers and car enthusiasts are against it. E85 is available in some areas but has not been well accepted due to the lower energy content and decreased mileage
Cheers,
John

[jforrester42]

Andy,
The Wiki write up on octane is pretty good, I should have thought to look there. Sure is a variety of octane ratings and test methods around the world.

John (UK),
I think after eleven years Zigas Wedge had all the possible problems with the fuel system. I was a little more fortunate as my car ONLY sat four years. My fuel pump was frozen/gummed up so there was no chance to pump crud through the rest of the system. I started at the tank(s) and drained ugly fuel that smelled like varnish.There was no sign of rust or other particles. I removed the outlet hoses and the fuel swirl tank, they were gummed up so new hoses and a through cleaning of the swirl pot. After that I added new fuel and a heavy concentration of Sea Foam. I repeated the process a number of times and the fuel was discolored but still no particles and looked better each time. I had to replace the fuel pump and the accumulator (it leaked). I added a filter between the swirl pot and the pump. I blew out the hoses and replaced the primary filter. Engine would still not run. As Ziga mentioned the metering unit and the WOR were both gummed up. I sent them off for rebuild to a specialist here in the states ($725). Upon return and installation the engine fired right up. I have since cleaned the Aux air bypass valve and the engine runs well. It looks like I lucked out with the injectors so I have not touched them. I have only driven the car a few miles so I HOPE not to develop problems with the FI. The gas gauge is stuck at half full so it is probably gummed up as well. I don't think I have put in enough fuel yet to reach the sender.
So good luck and do everything Ziga suggests!
Cheers,
John (USA)

[jforrester42]

Thanks for the gas gauge info . May sound like a silly question but where is the sender? I crawled around under the car and never found it. Is it some where in the crowd that is the diff and brakes, right or left tank?
Cheers,
John

[jforrester42]

Thanks, I peaked under and I spotted the wires and it looks like it is the same as yours. Wish I still had my service lift, laying on your back working in that area sure is fun!

Merry Christmas to you and all the TVR folks!!
John

[jforrester42]

Looks like I just found another problem and it may be the reason the engine seems "flat". At idle I removed each of the plug wires to see if the engine was hitting on all cylinders and no response at number one. The other five all gave the expected drop in idle speed and slight roughness. Pulled the plug and it was carbon black, bead blasted it with no improvement and it sparks nicely when removed and set on the plenum. Next guess is the injector is plugged. I have been running a high concentration of Sea Foam in the fuel and I had hoped it would help the injectors after the four years of not being run.
I assume removing the plenum will make all the injectors reachable. Any suggestions on cleaning them without professional help? Can compressed air be blown through them without damage? Once removed how do you tell if they are defective? Can the injector seals be reused?
I would appreciate any suggestions!
John

[jforrester42]

I was pretty careful with checking the spark in number one. Plug was dry black and had been ten miles from new. I think I will go ahead and remove the plenum. With it off it should be easy to compare number one injector with any of the others.
Thanks for check out process, probably a couple of day till I get to it.
Cheers,
John

[jforrester42]

Good news, bad news!! I will back up minute. Last week I commented the engine felt flat and after about two miles quit like it was out of fuel, restarted and repeated the symptoms. I replaced the filter I had added between the swirl pot and the fuel pump. I cut open the old one and there was powder crud inside but I do not know if it was enough to stop the fuel flow. I also drained the tanks and put in new fuel and Sea Foam Conditioner. Engine started right up with the new filter. That is when I tested each spark plug wire and found that number one cylinder was not firing.
Today I removed the plenum and number one injector I soaked it in Sea Foam, forced some into the injector by tapping on it. I then tried compressed air and after a couple of cycles of sea foam treatment the injector seemed to open up and had a good spray. I hooked it to its fuel line and ran the fuel pump and it sprayed when I lifted the metering flap. I (we) reassembled the plenum and the engine fired right up and was running on all six cylinders! I let it get full temp and adjusted the air bleed. The engine was very smooth and ran better than it ever had since I have owned it! Then a test drive, engine pulled so much better with all six cylinders hitting. Ran it up through the gears a number of times with good results THEN after about two miles the engine sputtered and almost quit. I was within sight of my shop and with some effort got it into my driveway. Engine then quit and after some cranking would start and quit again. after about six or eight of these cycles I got it parked in the shop. I was concerned the new fuel filter was already plugged so I opened the fitting where the fuel enters the metering unit and a gush of fuel came out. I also cracked open one of the lines to one of the injectors and again a good squirt. I checked for spark and it seemed ok. So I do not know what is causing the engine to quit. The engine now starts and runs in the garage but no more test drives!!
Speculation on my part: is it possible the metering unit is sticking sometimes? Help! I am out of ideas!!

Cheers and thanks for any thoughts,
John

[jforrester42]

Thanks to both of you for your comments and advice. I'll do a recap of what I have done over the last few months. First I drained about a gallon or two of smelly fuel from tanks. Removed the swirl pot and cleaned it and installed new hoses from the tanks to the pot. Began adding a gallon or two of fresh fuel and Sea Foam, letting it sit overnight, drained it and repeated this six or eight times. Drained fuel never seemed to have crud in it but was discolored. Replaced frozen fuel pump and added a filter between it and the swirl pot. Replaced fuel accumulator which leaked. Blew compressed air through the fuel line from pump to bulkhead filter, and compressed air from return line back to tanks. Bypassed power to pump and ran fuel into catch can at bulkhead filter input. Fuel looked good with no "visible" crud. Replaced bulkhead filter and attempted to start engine, no go with occasional "put put" from engine. This is when I discovered there was no compression in two or three cylinders. Removed valve covers and adjusted valve clearance. There was no gap in some of the valves. Ran compression test again and all good. Added new spark plugs. Still no go. Sent off metering unit AND warm up regulator for rebuild. Removed air bypass, cleaned and tested it, ok. Re-installed metering unit, WOR,and air filter, engine fired right up! Engine seemed to run good at idle with a little hesitation when blip-ping the throttle. Short test drive and engine seemed very flat but having never having driven a Wedge did not know what to expect. Second test drive still "flat" and after about two miles stalled but was able to get home. Removed the filter at the swirl pot and drained the tanks, some powder crud in catch can and replaced with new filter. Cut open old filter and found some crud in it but probably not enough to stop all the fuel flow. Sorry to say with all of the changing of the filter I never checked the fuel flow to the bulkhead filter. At this point I checked the spark at each cylinder and found number one was dead though it had good spark. Yesterday I removed the plenum and the number one fuel injector which appeared to be plugged. I soaked it in Sea Foam and "tapped" it, with compressed air it appeared to open. I connected it to its fuel line, bypassed the pump, opened the metering flap and it sprayed a cloud of fuel. Put everything back together and the engine seemed to run in the shop better than ever and cylinder 1 was now active. Went for a test drive and a vast improvement in performance. Ran the car up through the gears a few times and had a smile on my face! THEN it stalled again shnxxentynxjbjer! Almost did not make it back to the shop with frequent stalling and painful restarts. In the shop I opened the fitting at the metering unit and a gush of fuel sprayed out. Opened a fitting to one of the cylinders on the metering unit and it also sprayed out. Gave up and locked the shop!! Went out to the shop today and it fired right up and ran smooth at idle, no test drive.
Sorry for the looooong dissertation. Just documents my efforts and frustration. You guys have been a great help and I hope tomorrow to try some of your latest suggestions.

Thanks as always!!
John

[jforrester42]

Zig,
Am I missing something about how the injectors work? To my knowledge they create a spray/cloud and contain a valve that prevents fuel from dripping into the intake when the engine is not running. All seems pretty simple but "fine" engineering for proper function. What I don't get is how with the engine running great and at the next press of the throttle it quits/gasps/etc. Would not all of the injectors have to malfunction at the same time to cause the engine to quit. Sorry if I am missing something! Both times the engine quit it was at a quick full throttle and then the feeling you get when a car runs out of fuel. Another note, the car has a"full throttle" vacuum actuated switch. When I got the car it was disconnected and the vacuum port plugged. I have reconnected it but do not know if it has any effect, good or bad. There is no mention of it in the Wedge bible so I have no idea what it actually does. I'll try disconnecting it for the next test drive. I think it was disconnected on my first failed drive. The car does have some sort of an ECU since it has an O2 sensor and a pressure regulator modulator. The cat converter has been "gutted". I think the claim for this "Federal" car was 145 hp.

David,
I do not know is there is a screen in the swirl pot. It is an aluminum can with the two in and one out half inch id fitting tubes. I cleaned it out with lacquer thinner and compressed air and it seemed to be ok. When I disconnect the outlet fuel pours out at a fast rate. New fuel lines from the tanks to the pot and onto the fuel pump. All the other lines are the originals. Yes, I live in north east Oklahoma.

Cheers to all, I'll keep trying!
John

[jforrester42]

Jeff,
I adjusted the air bleed on the throttle body, I have not touched the richness adjustment on the metering unit. I'll check the voltage at the coil, there was spark present when the car quit the last time.
Thanks,
John

[jforrester42]

This mornings observations. Cold start engine fired right up and good idle. Measured voltage on the coil reads about 10 volts, seems about correct to me, other thoughts? Connected meter to duty cycle test point, engine running reads about 6 volts, I am assuming that is about 50/50 duty cycle using a moving needle volt meter. Right or WRONG? If I disconnect the regulator solenoid the reading goes to near zero and engine rpm's go up a bit. With solenoid connected when throttle is let close engine speed drops slightly below idle and then comes up. With solenoid disconnected at throttle close engine goes to idle with no extra drop. Probably what you would expect? After a through warm up connecting and disconnecting the O2 sensor has no effect. The voltage at the O2 sensor starts cold at about .3 volts and never changed in a half hour of running. Dead O2 sensor?? What would you expect to measure? Tried connecting the hose to the wide open throttle switch (WOT). Disconnected and hose plugged, 50/50 duty cycle (6 volts). Connected hose, voltage/duty cycle goes up to approx. 10 volts and fluctuates a bit. Nothing changes when the throttle is opened and closed. Suspect engine does not like WOT connected?? Left it disconnected and line plugged.
Dropped 3 mm hex wrench into the metering unit adjustment port. Was pleased to see it go up and down with throttle change. Does this tell you the metering unit piston is moving up and down or just the air flap and its linkage? As
I recall the linkage lifts the metering piston but the piston "falls" down??

I did not take a test drive, no chase car/helper today and it is cold and I did not want to risk a cold walk home!
After a minimum of a half hour running well in the shop I shut it off. The coil was warm but I noticed the heater hose was against it and that could have heated it, rerouted the hose. I cracked the fitting where the fuel enters the metering unit and a "gush" came out. Not sure that indicated anything as the engine never had a load to increase the fuel demand during a test drive so lines could be still restricted.

Any thoughts? Thanks again,
John

[jforrester42]

Fuel delivery check:

Can the hose from the bulkhead filter to the metering unit be used? I don't have any banjo fittings to connect to the return line side of the metering unit. That fitting is a double with the return line and the "duty cycle" regulator (what ever its official name is). Using the line from the filter would not check any flow thru the metering unit and its pressure regulator. When I originally was trying to clean the fuel lines I ran the pump and had a very high flow from the bulkhead filter to metering unit line. I have not repeated the test since having attempted to drive the car.
I have been powering the pump with an external battery. I like your idea of a clips and wire long enough to reach the battery better. Getting to the pump leads every time I want a test is a pain in the butt! If all this testing keeps up I think I will fabricate an external, easy to reach, external power point to the pump.

OH! I just went to the shop and looked at the return line banjo and noticed the hose is connected to it with a crimp type clamp (low pressure return line) I should be able to cut off the clamp and replace it with a normal screw type hose clamp after doing the flow test you described. All the high pressure banjo line connections appear to be irremovable. I assume they were heat shrunk to the banjos.

Not sure what to make of the duty cycle data.

Thanks again, I will let you know the results,
John

Another question, does your car have any protective shield to keep the wheel well water etc. from getting on the pump and accumulator? There was none on my car and I have made a poor attempt to cover the pump and accumulator.

[jforrester42]

Fuel delivery test results:
I removed the banjo the goes to the pulsed regulator and cut off the short section of hose that connected the banjo to the semi rigid plastic pipe that leads to the regulator. Was surprised to see the the semi rigid tube was shrunk onto the banjo and what would seem to be redundant the short hose and clamps over the joint. I ran the flow test into a container that probably holds about a litre. Instead of jumping the fuel pump power I disconnected the plug to the distributor and cranked the engine for the 30 seconds. I believe there was at least 750 cc's in the container. Running the starter probably lowered the voltage reaching the pump but it passed the test anyway, so a good sign!
Ran the engine until hot and tried connecting and disconnecting the regulator solenoid plug. Engine seems to run better with the solenoid disconnected, smoother transition back to idle from throttle open to closed. Possibly smoother at high rpm as well, but again with no load so not conclusive.
At idle I disconnected each spark wire one at a time and looks like it is still hitting on all 6 cylinders.
Still no test drive so I still don't know if I have had any effect on it!
Cheers,
John

[jforrester42]

Thanks for the info, fortunately I just replaced the short piece of hose that was at the joint and everything seems good. This was the only connection that had the extra piece of hose over a normal looking "push on" of the semi rigid plastic pipe. As you said the return line is a normal looking fuel hose and is a larger diameter than the pipe from the pump to the bulkhead filter.
Raining, no top, no test drive today!
John

[jforrester42]

Drove the car 42 miles to have the new top installed and the car ran perfect. The bad news is the brakes failed during the trip. Car is on stands now awaiting a new master cylinder. The 42 mile trip was the longest run the car has made since all the work getting the fuel system overhauled. My only concern now is the fact that I still do not know the actual condition of the fuel tanks. I flushed them the best I could and added a filter between the swirl pot and the pump as an extra precaution. If the filter plugs up I will know I am in trouble, only time and distance will tell. Most of the comments I have heard is that once the fuel injection system is working it is very reliable.
Thanks for asking for the follow up,
John