A little too advanced!
Discussion
Oh have I had fun today! Recently got the 350 back on the road and have been doing all the usual servicing bits, like changing the oil, changing the sparks, dizzy, etc. Anyway, the car has always pinked badly and no matter who I took it to it always came back the same as nobody seemed to be able to fix it. I was always told that it was due to either bad fuel or that it was just a characteristic of this engine.
Anyway, armed with the timing strobe I set about fixing the problem myself. Now I’ve always known that the timing has been set to about 17 degrees BTDC (yes, 17 degrees!), however it was always impossible to retard this value as the vacuum advance unit fouled the water pump outlet if you tried to turn it any further. The engine has been running like this for the last 6 years now…
Well, I took the distributor off today, inspected it and refitted it again. However, I managed to balls the whole thing up by putting it back wrongly and ended up having to take the rocker covers off to manually set the TDC value on piston 1 so that I could refit it. Once installed again, I found I could retard the ignition to any figure I liked, which is exactly how it should have been. Turns out that whoever fitted the distributor last had managed to install with the drive-shaft engaged in the wrong position! No wonder it had to be turned so far around that it hit the water pump outlet. What amazes me is that none of the so called “experts” I took the car to noticed this. Anyway, its now set at about 8 degrees BTDC and I will be adjusting it over the next day or so until the engine runs smoothly without pinking.
Ok, so this has just been a bit of waffle about my particular engine, however if you are having problems with pinking which you cannot fix then you may want to double check the distributor is in the right slot!
Anyway, armed with the timing strobe I set about fixing the problem myself. Now I’ve always known that the timing has been set to about 17 degrees BTDC (yes, 17 degrees!), however it was always impossible to retard this value as the vacuum advance unit fouled the water pump outlet if you tried to turn it any further. The engine has been running like this for the last 6 years now…
Well, I took the distributor off today, inspected it and refitted it again. However, I managed to balls the whole thing up by putting it back wrongly and ended up having to take the rocker covers off to manually set the TDC value on piston 1 so that I could refit it. Once installed again, I found I could retard the ignition to any figure I liked, which is exactly how it should have been. Turns out that whoever fitted the distributor last had managed to install with the drive-shaft engaged in the wrong position! No wonder it had to be turned so far around that it hit the water pump outlet. What amazes me is that none of the so called “experts” I took the car to noticed this. Anyway, its now set at about 8 degrees BTDC and I will be adjusting it over the next day or so until the engine runs smoothly without pinking.
Ok, so this has just been a bit of waffle about my particular engine, however if you are having problems with pinking which you cannot fix then you may want to double check the distributor is in the right slot!
Somewhat o/t.
Talking about 'experts' ("ex" is something that has been and "spurt" is a drip under pressure), many moons ago a friend (Clive) headed up an 'investigation group' in Ford. He told me two stories that stuck in my mind.
The first concerned a new Escort that exhibited asymetrical braking tendencies at the front. The local main dealer (a well-known name) had seen the car three times and couldn't fix the problem. Eventually one of Clive's engineers was despatched to inspect it. He called Clive out to the garage where the car was up on the ramp with the front wheels off. Clive looked at the NSF then looked at the OSF, then at the NSF, then again at the OSF, ... then scratched his head and said, "How the f
k did that happen?"
The car had a disc brake on one side and a drum on the other! Further investigation showed that the struts were different and even the front wings! What worried Clive most was that there should have been no disc brakes available to the production line that produced the car. What worried him next was why the 'experts' at the main dealer hadn't spotted the obvious problem.
His second tale concerned a V6 Capri that never ran properly from new. The owner was the head of a major fleet operator - all Fords - so something had to be done! Clive went himself to inspect the car - at another local main dealer who had already tried several times to fix the poor running.
He opened the bonnet and immediately spotted the problem ... only four plug leads from the distributor!
Streaky
PS : Daniel - firefox1712 suggests (www.pistonheads.com/gassing/topic.asp?t=67458&f=12&h=0) that you might have a book with a picture of my Wedge (black 390SE originally B402WFV) in it. Grateful for a note of the title and ISBN if possible. Many thanks - Streaky
Talking about 'experts' ("ex" is something that has been and "spurt" is a drip under pressure), many moons ago a friend (Clive) headed up an 'investigation group' in Ford. He told me two stories that stuck in my mind.
The first concerned a new Escort that exhibited asymetrical braking tendencies at the front. The local main dealer (a well-known name) had seen the car three times and couldn't fix the problem. Eventually one of Clive's engineers was despatched to inspect it. He called Clive out to the garage where the car was up on the ramp with the front wheels off. Clive looked at the NSF then looked at the OSF, then at the NSF, then again at the OSF, ... then scratched his head and said, "How the f
k did that happen?" The car had a disc brake on one side and a drum on the other! Further investigation showed that the struts were different and even the front wings! What worried Clive most was that there should have been no disc brakes available to the production line that produced the car. What worried him next was why the 'experts' at the main dealer hadn't spotted the obvious problem.
His second tale concerned a V6 Capri that never ran properly from new. The owner was the head of a major fleet operator - all Fords - so something had to be done! Clive went himself to inspect the car - at another local main dealer who had already tried several times to fix the poor running.
He opened the bonnet and immediately spotted the problem ... only four plug leads from the distributor!
Streaky
PS : Daniel - firefox1712 suggests (www.pistonheads.com/gassing/topic.asp?t=67458&f=12&h=0) that you might have a book with a picture of my Wedge (black 390SE originally B402WFV) in it. Grateful for a note of the title and ISBN if possible. Many thanks - Streaky
Daniel -
Sorry to hear about all that.
I have forgotten just about all my DIY mechanics stuff - a lot of you are rather to technical for me, but I read it all anyway out of interest or to spot something. I just remember what TDC etc was all about - I think.
Use a mechanic / engineer - then you've got someone to sue or beat up!
What was the book you showed me on Sunday?
cheers!
JJ
Sorry to hear about all that.
I have forgotten just about all my DIY mechanics stuff - a lot of you are rather to technical for me, but I read it all anyway out of interest or to spot something. I just remember what TDC etc was all about - I think.
Use a mechanic / engineer - then you've got someone to sue or beat up!
What was the book you showed me on Sunday?
cheers!
JJ
- StreakyFirefox/Streaky.
Thanks for your recent comments/posts. The book in question is called "Muscle and Curves", and was written my Iain Ayre. The ISBN is 1-899369-00-7, however I think the book is out of print now.
Page 98 does indeed show a black 390se with the louvered bonnet and red interior. The registration is "390 SE", and I would date the photograph at around early 1986 as in the background there are 3 other cars including a white Series 2 350i with Series 1 door mirrors, possibly one of the first production models of the S2. Also a red 280i with USA spec bumper rubber and a FHC 350i. The black 390 has a large red "stick on" TVR bonnet badge and also has the flared in type door mirrors. Door panels are also red, as is the inner side of the roof section. If you send me your email address, I will scan the page and send you a copy.
I have just about every book ever produced on TVR's so will look through and see if I can find any other details of your car. I think I've seen your car crop up in a book called the TVR Gold Portfollio, however I've miss layed it so will have a search...
By the way, my car is an ex factory/test car too. Its a green and silver 350i which I bought from the factory in 1997. I've not yet found it listed in any road tests, however there are loads of interior panels in the car which have been labelled as "green and silver press car" on the backs, so I guess I will have to keep on searching...
Thanks for your recent comments/posts. The book in question is called "Muscle and Curves", and was written my Iain Ayre. The ISBN is 1-899369-00-7, however I think the book is out of print now.
Page 98 does indeed show a black 390se with the louvered bonnet and red interior. The registration is "390 SE", and I would date the photograph at around early 1986 as in the background there are 3 other cars including a white Series 2 350i with Series 1 door mirrors, possibly one of the first production models of the S2. Also a red 280i with USA spec bumper rubber and a FHC 350i. The black 390 has a large red "stick on" TVR bonnet badge and also has the flared in type door mirrors. Door panels are also red, as is the inner side of the roof section. If you send me your email address, I will scan the page and send you a copy.
I have just about every book ever produced on TVR's so will look through and see if I can find any other details of your car. I think I've seen your car crop up in a book called the TVR Gold Portfollio, however I've miss layed it so will have a search...
By the way, my car is an ex factory/test car too. Its a green and silver 350i which I bought from the factory in 1997. I've not yet found it listed in any road tests, however there are loads of interior panels in the car which have been labelled as "green and silver press car" on the backs, so I guess I will have to keep on searching...
Dan - I have "Muscles and Curves". The 390SE shown on p98 with red interior, louvred bonnet and red TVR decal is indeed mine (or at least so I have been told by some 'authorities').
When the car was test driven by Fast Car magazine the bonnet was not of the louvered type. This was retrofitted when the car was returned to the factory.
The red decal disappeared later, to be replaced by a metal TVR badge. There is a report that a milk-van may have played a role in the modification ...
However, this 'incident' could have occured later in the car's factory life and it is likely that the decal was replaced by the metal badge as part of the car's 'updating' in line with other 'improvements' that were tested on it.
I would be grateful for any references to it (photographs, etc.) in any other publications. It was the first car to be fitted (retrospectively) with the A-frame rear suspension (by Chris Schirle).
Streaky
PS - edited to add that MnC is indeed out of print, but copies occasionally turn up on E-bay. I tracked my copy down in the USA - S
>> Edited by streaky on Tuesday 18th November 20:41
>> Edited by streaky on Wednesday 19th November 07:07
When the car was test driven by Fast Car magazine the bonnet was not of the louvered type. This was retrofitted when the car was returned to the factory.
The red decal disappeared later, to be replaced by a metal TVR badge. There is a report that a milk-van may have played a role in the modification ...
However, this 'incident' could have occured later in the car's factory life and it is likely that the decal was replaced by the metal badge as part of the car's 'updating' in line with other 'improvements' that were tested on it.
I would be grateful for any references to it (photographs, etc.) in any other publications. It was the first car to be fitted (retrospectively) with the A-frame rear suspension (by Chris Schirle).
Streaky
PS - edited to add that MnC is indeed out of print, but copies occasionally turn up on E-bay. I tracked my copy down in the USA - S
>> Edited by streaky on Tuesday 18th November 20:41
>> Edited by streaky on Wednesday 19th November 07:07
firefox1712 said:JJ - registered 19 Feb 1985. Purchased by publishers Fast Lane magazine and road tested by them. They had some problems with bits breaking, it apparently got acrimonious and the factory took the car back. That would have been in April (date uncertain). Chris Schirle was immediately given the order, "Sort it out!" by Peter Wheeler. Chris redesigned the rear suspension, had the body off and the A-frame fitted. His goal was to minimise changes for the 'production line' ... he did (although I believe there were some minor design changes that came later). That took him two weeks, so the car was rolling again in April/May with the new suspension. The 'bible' lists November 1985 for the first production 390 with A-frame rear suspension, so there must have been a number of chassis 'in build' that were not modified - Streaky
Thanks Dan!
Streaky - when was your car built? When were the a frame wishbones fitted?
JJ
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