Best Transverse V6 & GBox? Toyota/Nissan? Or...?
Discussion
Is anyone here willing to make a stab at suggesting a good transverse V6 engine/GBox?
I've got my sights set on another kit car to replace the Ultima for when we move home, but, even though the car has a mid mounted engine arrangement, it's too short for the normal longitudnal/lengthwise arrangement. So rather than sticking with a 4 pot, I thought I'd stick in a fwd transverse V6, say like out of a Toyota Camry...
Is there a 6 speed GBox version that anyone knows about? Otherwise it might have to be a Quaife dog box...
Cheers,
from a sunny UK,
Pete
I've got my sights set on another kit car to replace the Ultima for when we move home, but, even though the car has a mid mounted engine arrangement, it's too short for the normal longitudnal/lengthwise arrangement. So rather than sticking with a 4 pot, I thought I'd stick in a fwd transverse V6, say like out of a Toyota Camry...
Is there a 6 speed GBox version that anyone knows about? Otherwise it might have to be a Quaife dog box...
Cheers,
from a sunny UK,
Pete
GravelBen said:
I've heard of a few replica Stratos's using the Alfa 164 3.0 V6, which apparently makes 200+ bhp and a very nice sound. The Camry or Maxima V6 (Millen made a supercharged Maxima V6 I believe) might also be a good option though for availability, repair costs etc. Or possibly even a MIVEC Mitsi V6 out of an FTO?
another thought: is the Accord type R a V6 or 4pot? 3.0 Vtec could be nice...
another thought: is the Accord type R a V6 or 4pot? 3.0 Vtec could be nice...
Edited by GravelBen on Tuesday 6th June 11:43
Do you know what kind of blower he's using? i.e, Roots/Eaton, Vortech or a Whipple twin screw...
As I'd prefer the wide torque curve of a blower over more just at the top end or the range, then again, depends on the GBox, as the turbo porker box I have definately is not the best suited to a SBC, my gear changes are usually 2-4-6 !!!
Cheers,
Pete
>Millen
I just looked them up, couldn't find anything about blowers, mostly just Turbos, and the Camry they have the parts for is the MZ series of Alloy engines...
Depending on the GBox I use, and available gears ratios, I might just use Turbos at the end of the day...
Of course, there are probably blower kits for the GM/Ford V6 Units, so I'd just need the bellhousing adapter as well...
I guess, I want to try and keep a similar power ratio to what I run now, which shouldn't be too hard as the car only weighs 700Kg opposed to the Ult's 1000 or so Kg...
I just looked them up, couldn't find anything about blowers, mostly just Turbos, and the Camry they have the parts for is the MZ series of Alloy engines...
Depending on the GBox I use, and available gears ratios, I might just use Turbos at the end of the day...
Of course, there are probably blower kits for the GM/Ford V6 Units, so I'd just need the bellhousing adapter as well...
I guess, I want to try and keep a similar power ratio to what I run now, which shouldn't be too hard as the car only weighs 700Kg opposed to the Ult's 1000 or so Kg...
GravelBen said:
... Noble ... They're a transverse twin-turbo V6 and go pretty well 
I suspect the Noble still runs the engine in the longitudnal direction, which would make the whole thing too long, however if the engine is mounted transverse, and thus the gearbox is as well, then it might be possible to squeeze it in. I think they use the 3.0 L Ford Duratec...
I've been looking at the Hewland or Xtrac boxes, pricy, but nice, though Dog gears only...
I think if I can get the Engine/GBox out of a Camry to fit, then I will, as GBox's are disposable items anyway...
I'll post more details about the car, once I've seen it in the 'GRP' so to speak, as it's not currently in production, so it may take some fast talking to get my hands on it...
renn68 said:
Hmmm, that looks like a nice combo, they're using the Autorotor Lysome blower from Sweden.
At least the Kit is complete, i.e. it has an intercooler as well, not bad for about 5-6US, so 8-9NZ.
Pity they don't show the torque graphs, but that's typical of these US sites, either that or they make the figures up to suit...
Ben, you're right, it is transverse in the Noble.
It seems to be the 3.0L engine/6 speed gbox from the top spec Mondeos, which don't make it to NZ as usual.
However I just spoke to the factory that source and prep the base engine and gear box for Noble, and they can supply me a brand new 3.0 Duratec and GBox for quite reasonable money, though I'd have to fit an engine management unit on it, as the Ford unit can't handle having most of it's sensors cut off...
The Nissan VQ350DE as used in the 350Z is tempting however, and may be easier to get parts for in NZ, and will probably be more popular as a Tuners car, however I'd need to find a gear box to suit it, but that could possibly be done by using the Ford unit...
It seems to be the 3.0L engine/6 speed gbox from the top spec Mondeos, which don't make it to NZ as usual.
However I just spoke to the factory that source and prep the base engine and gear box for Noble, and they can supply me a brand new 3.0 Duratec and GBox for quite reasonable money, though I'd have to fit an engine management unit on it, as the Ford unit can't handle having most of it's sensors cut off...
The Nissan VQ350DE as used in the 350Z is tempting however, and may be easier to get parts for in NZ, and will probably be more popular as a Tuners car, however I'd need to find a gear box to suit it, but that could possibly be done by using the Ford unit...
>4-pot
Hmmm, only as last resort, I'm very used to the flat and wide torque curve from my V8 now, sometimes there is no 'replacement for displacement', and a Turbo 4 would have lag and a peaky torque curve that I'd rather do without.
I'm not saying you can't get the power out of a 4, but I'd rather have it at 1500/2000rpm for cruising...
>1uzfe
Hard to say, but if they are normally running a 4 pot, then just squeeze a V6 in, it could be hard to get the Toyota in, even with it's narrower cam arrangement, still it would be a nice cheap alternative to a brand new Dura/Alloy-tec V6.
The V6 is a good compromise, and once can easily squeeze 450hp/450ft out of the 3.0 Duratec as they do in the top of the line Noble, and as the car will be ~250kg lighter than my Ult, and it will maintain some bottem end torque of it's own if I want to turbo it, or better yet, blower it.
Hmmm, only as last resort, I'm very used to the flat and wide torque curve from my V8 now, sometimes there is no 'replacement for displacement', and a Turbo 4 would have lag and a peaky torque curve that I'd rather do without.
I'm not saying you can't get the power out of a 4, but I'd rather have it at 1500/2000rpm for cruising...
>1uzfe
Hard to say, but if they are normally running a 4 pot, then just squeeze a V6 in, it could be hard to get the Toyota in, even with it's narrower cam arrangement, still it would be a nice cheap alternative to a brand new Dura/Alloy-tec V6.
The V6 is a good compromise, and once can easily squeeze 450hp/450ft out of the 3.0 Duratec as they do in the top of the line Noble, and as the car will be ~250kg lighter than my Ult, and it will maintain some bottem end torque of it's own if I want to turbo it, or better yet, blower it.
Edited by peterpsg on Thursday 8th June 11:37
Since I've obviously got everyone's (those who have replied anyway!) curiosity up...
This is what I had in mind, here's a link to the very minimal website www.lescc.com/, and I'll be off to see one in a few weeks...
There's a review under kit cars as well if you hunt for it, but with an older style nose, etc...
It's a bit smaller than the Ult, more along the lines of a Lotus Elise for size, and hopefully handling...
Of course, one could just hack a V6 into an Elise instead...
This is what I had in mind, here's a link to the very minimal website www.lescc.com/, and I'll be off to see one in a few weeks...
There's a review under kit cars as well if you hunt for it, but with an older style nose, etc...
It's a bit smaller than the Ult, more along the lines of a Lotus Elise for size, and hopefully handling...
Of course, one could just hack a V6 into an Elise instead...
GravelBen said:
similiar price to a high-spec Caterham or lowish spec Ultima though?
Similar, but I'll have a beter idea as to the exact costing when I get some more details, the body will be cheaper than an Ult, but as the chassis has an alloy cockpit section with removable front and rear tubular sections it will be more costly. I'd just buy the rolling chassis and maybe some interior panelwork and, then do the rest myself.
GravelBen said:
Yeah, the T70 is quite nice, saw one recently at the National Kit Car Day, that was an other option, but I prefer the more modern lines of the LE car, and I'd be happier with something that, than another escapee from a race track, not that the LE isn't a track capable car though...
GravelBen said:
A nice-looking kiwi option is www.redlineclassics.net , look nice and sounds like they go pretty good too. Being NZ made would probably make it easier to get road legal, depends if you like it or not though.
Spotted them, not too bad, even local to my old neighbourhood, though my wife thought they looked ugly, plus the engine is in the front, and I've gotten to like the back massage one gets from a rear mounted engine
Kiwi XTR2 said:
peterpsg said:
Well there's nothing stopping me having 2 engines, in completely differant states of tune... one for the track, one for the off season . . .
Yes . . . nothing . . . nothing at all . . . Except a big wedge of cash, the other half wanting a new walnut dining suite, and the LTSA being their usual helpful selves
True, if I was using it enough to warrant having two engines, it'd have to be someone elses cash I was spending!!!
Hmmm, still a hard choice, turbo'd Duratech (aka Noble)/Alloytech (aka prototype Torana) or a s'charged Nissan 350z motor via a Stillen/Opcom blower.
Might have to flip a 50c piece before they become any smaller...
Here's a link to a road test that was done about 4 years ago, though the car seems to have older style headlights - I'd prefer the new one....
www.pistonheads.com/roadtests/doc.asp?c=112&i=5333
www.pistonheads.com/roadtests/doc.asp?c=112&i=5333
I'll reserve judgement on the car until I see it, and while I'm sure that I'd be hard pressed to match the Ult's straight line speed in it, I'm suspecting that it would hold it's own well enough on the twisties, and perhaps with a 400+ hp turbo/blown V6 in a car 3/4 of the weight, it'd not be too much slower and like I said earlier, I'm more of an open topper, arm out the window type, plus there's almost nowhere really to enjoy the Ult's true potential (legally) in NZ except the few tracks around...
Also with the noise the GTR produces it would attract the bacon brigade like flies to dead meat ("yes orificer those are factory standard pipes so you can take that little green sticker of yours and ...", and I've already lost my license once when I was younger and more brash...
Also with the noise the GTR produces it would attract the bacon brigade like flies to dead meat ("yes orificer those are factory standard pipes so you can take that little green sticker of yours and ..."
, and I've already lost my license once when I was younger and more brash... Sorry boys, I'd have loved nothing more than to drive the old boyhood routes out to the beach in the Ult, but, it's just not going to happen, and it'll be up for sale quite soon, though with all the inevitable time wasters that I'll have to sift thru to find a genuine builder, it could be a while before it sells...
I've given up counting how much it costs to run as it was getting a bit depressing at >£1 a litre for Optimax!!!
I've given up counting how much it costs to run as it was getting a bit depressing at >£1 a litre for Optimax!!!
Kiwi XTR2 said:
peterpsg said:
I've given up counting how much it costs to run as it was getting a bit depressing at >£1 a litre for Optimax!!!
Now there's a reason to bring it back - BP Ultimate 98 - $1.81 / litre
Must be about half price at the current exchange rate
Edited by Kiwi XTR2 on Monday 12th June 14:10
Yes, but I'd only be earning 1/2 as much, if that!!!!!
Not too bad a price for what you get, considering the Ult's SBC & Box alone cost well over NZ$30k.
I'd try and get the 32B though, as it had a slightly higher power output, still in a car weighing only 700kg, I'm sure it'd be as Rolls Royce, said, 'Performance; Adequate'.
At the end of the day, it'll probably be the 3.0 Duratech out of the Mundano, as I won't have to faff around getting gearboxes to mate up, and I'm sure plenty of the performance parts from the 2.0L 4 cyclinder Duratech will work on the engine, might even be able to bore it out to use the 2.3L Duratechs parts...
I haven't seen the LE car yet, the guys are away at Le Mans, a hard life for some...
I'll be sad to see the Ult go, though, even with the air con on the other day at 7pm, it was still a pressure cooker in the cockpit, so hopefully with an open topper we won't have that problem!
So if any one is planning a UK visit in the next month or so, you might be able to blag a ride in the GTR while I still own it...
I'd try and get the 32B though, as it had a slightly higher power output, still in a car weighing only 700kg, I'm sure it'd be as Rolls Royce, said, 'Performance; Adequate'.
At the end of the day, it'll probably be the 3.0 Duratech out of the Mundano, as I won't have to faff around getting gearboxes to mate up, and I'm sure plenty of the performance parts from the 2.0L 4 cyclinder Duratech will work on the engine, might even be able to bore it out to use the 2.3L Duratechs parts...
I haven't seen the LE car yet, the guys are away at Le Mans, a hard life for some...
I'll be sad to see the Ult go, though, even with the air con on the other day at 7pm, it was still a pressure cooker in the cockpit, so hopefully with an open topper we won't have that problem!
So if any one is planning a UK visit in the next month or so, you might be able to blag a ride in the GTR while I still own it...
Kiwi Le said:
peterpsg said:
So if any one is planning a UK visit in the next month or so, you might be able to blag a ride in the GTR while I still own it...
Careful - I might be up that way in about 3 weeks, I'll let you know.......see if it matches the push of a 330 hp SC Honda Elise :-)..............I'm guessing it will eat it alive !!!
If you're going to be around let me know, I should still have it as I need to get it MOT'd before selling it, and that way I can get some tips for when I (hopefully one day!) look at getting a yacht...
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