Quandry - Chim V S2000
Discussion
I will be in the market for a 'proper' sportscar in the new year. My budget is in the low 20's, so I've narrowed it down to 2 options - A TVR Chim 4.0 or a Honda S2000. The TVR has all the character, loads of torque and a great presence(and I've always wanted to own a V8). The Honda has one of the best 4 cylinder engines in the world and will be totally reliable (I've had 3 so I know this to be true)
Have any of you driven both ? If not, what is your opnion of the Honda as a 'proper' sports car.
Have any of you driven both ? If not, what is your opnion of the Honda as a 'proper' sports car.
I reckon this Honda is just about a 'proper' sports car - 2 doors, open, fast(ish), twin pipes. It's rare too, have seen a less s2000s than Chimps in the last year I think. More of a sensible buy too, but YOUR TROUBLE is if you track down a solid, reliable chim it'll be, roughly, 80 times better than the Honda will be..
Ed
Edited by edward on Friday 9th November 17:03
Ed
Edited by edward on Friday 9th November 17:03
I wondered about the S2000, and went onto a few websites etc, and formed the opinion that it is great fun, but quite tail happy particularly in the wet, and the driving experience isn't that great. Also the interior is acknowledged to be a bit dull. And they're only available in red, black and silver. Boring! But I haven't driven one....
Edited by nubbin on Friday 9th November 18:36
Edited by nubbin on Friday 9th November 18:36
Driven both (although not back to back) and I'd have to say it's an entirely subjective choice (like there's ever a sports-car buying decision that isn't?).
I really thought I wasn't going to like the Honda, but driving one here in the States changed my view (I assume US spec and UK spec doesn't vary much). Reminded me of my old Golf GTI 16V in that you had to work the engine to get the most out of it. Has the same ‘arse out’ characteristics of the Tiv if you give it lots of welly round corners and is much easier to catch before you get into trouble. Can’t use engine braking as effectively as you can in the TVR and although its probably as fast A-B, it doesn’t feel that way. Ironically I found the S2000 less comfy than I remember my Chimp and the interior is pretty bland (new RSX has better interior IMHO). Given the number of 98-99 Chimps around for the sort of money you are looking at, I’d probably choose one over a Honda unless I needed a car that was 99.9% reliable. Peter Wheeler will disagree with me (and he’s as entitled to his opinion as I am mine), but I think the S2000 is a serious sports car, not just an open top 2 seater.
That said, I’m sure most people on the forum will testify that a TVR induces a grin like no other – there’s a discussion on another thread about what embodies this ‘character’ –I don’t know if I can define it, but the Chimaera (and other TVRs) has buckets of it. It’s what causes so many rational, intelligent and reasonably affluent people to put up with the problems of the marque.
I really thought I wasn't going to like the Honda, but driving one here in the States changed my view (I assume US spec and UK spec doesn't vary much). Reminded me of my old Golf GTI 16V in that you had to work the engine to get the most out of it. Has the same ‘arse out’ characteristics of the Tiv if you give it lots of welly round corners and is much easier to catch before you get into trouble. Can’t use engine braking as effectively as you can in the TVR and although its probably as fast A-B, it doesn’t feel that way. Ironically I found the S2000 less comfy than I remember my Chimp and the interior is pretty bland (new RSX has better interior IMHO). Given the number of 98-99 Chimps around for the sort of money you are looking at, I’d probably choose one over a Honda unless I needed a car that was 99.9% reliable. Peter Wheeler will disagree with me (and he’s as entitled to his opinion as I am mine), but I think the S2000 is a serious sports car, not just an open top 2 seater.
That said, I’m sure most people on the forum will testify that a TVR induces a grin like no other – there’s a discussion on another thread about what embodies this ‘character’ –I don’t know if I can define it, but the Chimaera (and other TVRs) has buckets of it. It’s what causes so many rational, intelligent and reasonably affluent people to put up with the problems of the marque.
All I know is that I was chasing one up the A10 the other day and I had to back off - he was caining it but just couldnt loose me!!! What a grin.
Ok, so I have a 4.0L HC - but that said, it was easier to get the power down with all that torque coming off the roundabouts. Probably not that much difference once the VTEC is going, but it is all about getting there.
Just think - any gear, anything above 2000 Revs and the V8 just goes. None of the waiting for the 7500 power band...
Cheers,
Paul
Ok, so I have a 4.0L HC - but that said, it was easier to get the power down with all that torque coming off the roundabouts. Probably not that much difference once the VTEC is going, but it is all about getting there.
Just think - any gear, anything above 2000 Revs and the V8 just goes. None of the waiting for the 7500 power band...
Cheers,
Paul
I've got a Chim and my mate just got an S2000. IMHO they are very different beasts. S2000 is extremely tame at lower revs, then spins off towards the red line with a vengeance. The Chim gives you a wall of torque across the rev range.
This next bit sounds contradictory, but it was the feeling I got: the S2000 gave a smoother ride, but feels like it has a sharper turn in, feels very stiff in the corners, and tends to skip away from the apex if the road surface is rough. In a tight corner the Chim feels bigger, but I think actually goes round with a bit more poise. My mate is used to MR2s ... in particular the MkI which was like a go-cart ... he likes the S2000 style of handling and clearly had difficulty getting the feel of the Chim, i.e. had no confidence in the turn-in. I also found the S2000 driving position hopeless for someone of my height. The steering wheel is far too close to the pedals. The interior is a classic load of Honda @rse (however, it is probably bullet proof), and the roof is very good.
Bar the restricted boot space, the S2000 is much more like a "normal" car, unless you push it when it suddenly becomes an amphetamine stoked maniac.
Both great cars. Sports cars? Don't ask me. Both great fun. Both completely different. Drive them both and take your pick.
This next bit sounds contradictory, but it was the feeling I got: the S2000 gave a smoother ride, but feels like it has a sharper turn in, feels very stiff in the corners, and tends to skip away from the apex if the road surface is rough. In a tight corner the Chim feels bigger, but I think actually goes round with a bit more poise. My mate is used to MR2s ... in particular the MkI which was like a go-cart ... he likes the S2000 style of handling and clearly had difficulty getting the feel of the Chim, i.e. had no confidence in the turn-in. I also found the S2000 driving position hopeless for someone of my height. The steering wheel is far too close to the pedals. The interior is a classic load of Honda @rse (however, it is probably bullet proof), and the roof is very good.
Bar the restricted boot space, the S2000 is much more like a "normal" car, unless you push it when it suddenly becomes an amphetamine stoked maniac.
Both great cars. Sports cars? Don't ask me. Both great fun. Both completely different. Drive them both and take your pick.
I worked for Honda for a while, so I've seen a lot of the s2000 ( I drive a chim, so I've driven them back to back).
The s2000 is a fantastic car, very quick, very high revving, nice (not intimidating) to drive. Obviously Honda reliability is good, and anyone with half a brain knows how good their engines are ( I can tell you that they are intensly proud of their reputation as engine makers). However, there is one area that Honda fail on EVERY time - style ! I think the shape is too boring, it just doesn't have a nice stance. The interior is awful, and there is no sense of occasion. This is true of all Honda's. An Impreza is far more desirable than an Integra, or Accord type R, yet the Hondas kick Subaru's a** ! The NSX is fantastic - a reliable supercar ? but it is sooo pedestrian, it's strengths are also it's weaknesses (easy to drive, smooth, quiet, sensible etc).
We all know how much presence, sense of occasion and sheer grunt TVR's have.
I reckon Honda should hire Pinninfarina (as did Alfa Romeo - unreliable but stylish ), or the guys who styled the Tuscan to give them that wow factor, then they'd be queuing up for S2000's (restyled of course..)
The s2000 is a fantastic car, very quick, very high revving, nice (not intimidating) to drive. Obviously Honda reliability is good, and anyone with half a brain knows how good their engines are ( I can tell you that they are intensly proud of their reputation as engine makers). However, there is one area that Honda fail on EVERY time - style ! I think the shape is too boring, it just doesn't have a nice stance. The interior is awful, and there is no sense of occasion. This is true of all Honda's. An Impreza is far more desirable than an Integra, or Accord type R, yet the Hondas kick Subaru's a** ! The NSX is fantastic - a reliable supercar ? but it is sooo pedestrian, it's strengths are also it's weaknesses (easy to drive, smooth, quiet, sensible etc).
We all know how much presence, sense of occasion and sheer grunt TVR's have.
I reckon Honda should hire Pinninfarina (as did Alfa Romeo - unreliable but stylish ), or the guys who styled the Tuscan to give them that wow factor, then they'd be queuing up for S2000's (restyled of course..)
I've just ordered....an S2000. Sorry, but there is only one dealer up here in Scotland who is new to TVR and I'm afraid the reliablility issues put me off. If I had lived in the south (or anywhere near TMS it seems) then I may have bought one, but in the end, my dislike of hassle and the excellent residuals of the Honda overcame my need to own a V8 and drive a car with more presence that 99.9% of cars on the road.
I even let my head rule my heart and didn't test drive the Chim because I knew I would want one.
A well sorted Tamora is a possibility in 3 years or so though...
I even let my head rule my heart and didn't test drive the Chim because I knew I would want one.
A well sorted Tamora is a possibility in 3 years or so though...
quote:
but in the end, my dislike of hassle and the excellent residuals of the Honda overcame my need to own a V8 and drive a car with more presence that 99.9% of cars on the road.
I even let my head rule my heart and didn't test drive the Chim because I knew I would want one.
Old before your time I'm afraid
But enjoy the Honda
Had the same choice and got the honda (just given back after 2 years). TVR Chimera felt a bit kit car for my tastes and no faster than the S2000 (4.0l). Honda hood drops in about 7 secs too!
NOTE: Little tip, undo the five clips on the airbox (black thing at front of engine) and then remove the top of it, you will see a cone filter in there. Now drive it. You will be amazed by the noise the thing makes after doing this, as exciting as the TVR but in a different way - loved the thing!
This was filmed 2 days before return to lease company
www.jimbocam.com/elvington/v8/DVw-elv8-s2000-1.mpg
>> Edited by hoganscrogan on Wednesday 3rd April 14:33
NOTE: Little tip, undo the five clips on the airbox (black thing at front of engine) and then remove the top of it, you will see a cone filter in there. Now drive it. You will be amazed by the noise the thing makes after doing this, as exciting as the TVR but in a different way - loved the thing!
This was filmed 2 days before return to lease company
www.jimbocam.com/elvington/v8/DVw-elv8-s2000-1.mpg
>> Edited by hoganscrogan on Wednesday 3rd April 14:33
A good article in current/previous evo mag, boxster vs S2000.
Apparently the 2002 model year S2000 is much revised (same price) in the handling department. MUCH BETTER
AND you can get a brand new one for 26,000 from a main dealer. Less if you haggle/EU import,etc
To be brutally honest, if you are looking to run just one car, and do a decent mileage (i.e.12,000 a year)
The honda is a better overall bet than a chimarea.
LOOK at the routine servicing cost for this mileage.
Personally I think the S2000 looks much better than a chim and is rarer (IT will BE utterly reliable) and has an electric roof.
Sacrilege I know (Griff 500 owner).
But I could not afford to run the Griff as my sole car.
Have been tempted to get the S2000 as my next company car.
ONE question I raise with the dealers. WHY are TVR's so expensive to routine service, are TVR going to anything to reduce costs, extend interval (come on 6,000 miles interval, was bad 10 years ago)
This has put me off buying a tuscan/tamora.
Please don't give me because of the performance reply.
routine servicing on a boxster S, new 911, VIPER, and some others is a lot less, and less often.
B
>> Edited by bjwoods on Thursday 4th April 09:58
>> Edited by bjwoods on Thursday 4th April 10:01
Apparently the 2002 model year S2000 is much revised (same price) in the handling department. MUCH BETTER
AND you can get a brand new one for 26,000 from a main dealer. Less if you haggle/EU import,etc
To be brutally honest, if you are looking to run just one car, and do a decent mileage (i.e.12,000 a year)
The honda is a better overall bet than a chimarea.
LOOK at the routine servicing cost for this mileage.
Personally I think the S2000 looks much better than a chim and is rarer (IT will BE utterly reliable) and has an electric roof.
Sacrilege I know (Griff 500 owner).
But I could not afford to run the Griff as my sole car.
Have been tempted to get the S2000 as my next company car.
ONE question I raise with the dealers. WHY are TVR's so expensive to routine service, are TVR going to anything to reduce costs, extend interval (come on 6,000 miles interval, was bad 10 years ago)
This has put me off buying a tuscan/tamora.
Please don't give me because of the performance reply.
routine servicing on a boxster S, new 911, VIPER, and some others is a lot less, and less often.
B
>> Edited by bjwoods on Thursday 4th April 09:58
>> Edited by bjwoods on Thursday 4th April 10:01
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