RE: TVR to launch 600bhp supercar
Discussion
no, it wouldnt. it would be a pointless excercise as nobody would buy it.
an £4000 formula renault would probably whoop any road car round the track so who gives a stuff about lap times.
The Enzo, Zonda and Carrera GT are all at the absolute peak of the supercar game, tvr simply doesnt sit in the same space as these exquistly engineed beauties.
bennno
jamster said:
Just imagine for one moment they do builld the car to relaunch TVR and use it to make a massive statement/impact back into the market.
Top Gear gets a hold of it and it goes round the track faster than any other car has done before. Would it be worth 120K then???
Would someone pay 120K for it to know they can beat a Zonda/Porsche GT/Enzo etc? All 300-400K cars???
Remember the Sagaris is not to far off those cars times anyway.
May not be as stupid as you think.
Just trying to add some balance to the news
Over
Top Gear gets a hold of it and it goes round the track faster than any other car has done before. Would it be worth 120K then???
Would someone pay 120K for it to know they can beat a Zonda/Porsche GT/Enzo etc? All 300-400K cars???
Remember the Sagaris is not to far off those cars times anyway.
May not be as stupid as you think.
Just trying to add some balance to the news
Over
skoda are one of the best cars you can buy (in that market) with one of the best dealer backups you can get. Rated highly in top gear survey etc but do people buy them?
The issues with TVR's history, whether it is still valid or not on later cars (from experience of friends sp6 tuscan, it is) then to ask someone to spend 120k on one is akin to asking for them to give you their lungs, madness. Sure someone would buy it but who and how many would it sell?
Just by increasing their asking price will not magic away the past, the image nor raise it into the supercar league. They are fast fast cars but that doesnt grant them super car status. Is a 7 or Atom a supercar?
As amusing as this thread has been, I find this news very sad indeed. As a long time fan of TVR and a previous Tuscan owner (one of the first for my sins!) I was on the verge of buying a second hand 4.5 Cerbera or Tuscan S for the garage when Russki fella announced the factory move to Latithuanestonia or wherever.
TVR will now be all about cutting costs and making as much profit as possible out of the rapidly dwindling fanbase.
I hope I'm wrong but I think that in 3-4 years TVR will be an elite owners club for seriously loaded people who buy them to put in painted garages under dust covers. 'Real' owners with the good old affordable TVRs will be sitting with cars waiting for spare parts to come in from abroad at 3-4 times the price they used to be as shipping costs go through the roof in Europe over the next few years.
Trust me, this £100k+ car is a market tester - if it sells we all know what's gonna happen...
TVR will now be all about cutting costs and making as much profit as possible out of the rapidly dwindling fanbase.
I hope I'm wrong but I think that in 3-4 years TVR will be an elite owners club for seriously loaded people who buy them to put in painted garages under dust covers. 'Real' owners with the good old affordable TVRs will be sitting with cars waiting for spare parts to come in from abroad at 3-4 times the price they used to be as shipping costs go through the roof in Europe over the next few years.
Trust me, this £100k+ car is a market tester - if it sells we all know what's gonna happen...
it simply wont sell. above 100k is nailed up
Gallardo Drop top or coupe, V8 Vantage, Murceliago, F430 drop top or coupe, GT40, Aston DB9, Porsche 997 Turbo, M6 Cab, SL55 AMG, Porsche GT3RS, Bentley Continental, Ferrari 630, Ferrari F599GTB, Audi R8, Alfa 8C.
Lets be honest if you have the cash to spend £120k then £180k wont cause you a problem either. I dont see how it can differentiate itself from the above, it stands no chance and is futile excercise.
Bennno
Gallardo Drop top or coupe, V8 Vantage, Murceliago, F430 drop top or coupe, GT40, Aston DB9, Porsche 997 Turbo, M6 Cab, SL55 AMG, Porsche GT3RS, Bentley Continental, Ferrari 630, Ferrari F599GTB, Audi R8, Alfa 8C.
Lets be honest if you have the cash to spend £120k then £180k wont cause you a problem either. I dont see how it can differentiate itself from the above, it stands no chance and is futile excercise.
Bennno
jamster said:
Just imagine for one moment they do builld the car to relaunch TVR and use it to make a massive statement/impact back into the market.
Top Gear gets a hold of it and it goes round the track faster than any other car has done before. Would it be worth 120K then???
Would someone pay 120K for it to know they can beat a Zonda/Porsche GT/Enzo etc? All 300-400K cars???
Remember the Sagaris is not to far off those cars times anyway.
May not be as stupid as you think.
Just trying to add some balance to the news
Over
Top Gear gets a hold of it and it goes round the track faster than any other car has done before. Would it be worth 120K then???
Would someone pay 120K for it to know they can beat a Zonda/Porsche GT/Enzo etc? All 300-400K cars???
Remember the Sagaris is not to far off those cars times anyway.
May not be as stupid as you think.
Just trying to add some balance to the news
Over
Just imagine for one moment if I cobble a car together in my outside toilet to relaunch TVR and use it to make a massive statement/impact back into the market.
Top Gear gets a hold of it and it goes round the track faster than any other car has done before. Would it be worth 120K then???
Would someone pay 120K for it to know they can beat a Zonda/Porsche GT/Enzo etc? All 300-400K cars???
Remember the Sagaris is not to far off those cars times anyway.
May not be as stupid as you think.
Just trying to add some balance to the news
... We're talking about a car, who's workforce, whoever that may be, have almost certainly never heard of TVR, and are currently doing "what" for a living, we can only imagine.
I'm guessing the future workforce is at this very moment, digging for salt or the likes.
I hope I'm wrong, and that there's been 500 Italians/Russians/aliens watching and learning how the couple of cars have been made this year, but I'm starting to have my doubts.
and 
Its soo the wrong direction. I would have thought they'd have realised by now they need to channel their thinking into a £35kish V8/V6 and refine it. Oh well.I think this a pointless exercise but also please get real all those calling for a £35k V8 TVR. THis is the absolute most competitive space imaginable and you need to be able to knock out tens of thousands of cars a year across the globe.
THe slot for TVR is £45 - £60k as Marcos are aiming at. It will always be a niche market appealing to teh enthusiast and the volumes small. They are typically second and occasional use cars bought by peole who aren't badge snobs or left cold by the mainstream offerings. TVR are in the right market space just the product was knocked for 6 with the speed 6 engine and not enough has / could be done to restore confidence. As has been said so many times if teh current range of cars had a mainstream v8 or the speed 6 relaunched following a published statement on reliability and reengineering the cars would be selling well.
What is so sad to me is that if in teh first months that NS acquired the company he had outsorced engine production to Cosworth and offered a very cost effective exchaneg engine programme to bring cars up to the lastest warrantied design he would have had a onme off hit of several million but I'm convinced the company would be in rude health now.
David
THe slot for TVR is £45 - £60k as Marcos are aiming at. It will always be a niche market appealing to teh enthusiast and the volumes small. They are typically second and occasional use cars bought by peole who aren't badge snobs or left cold by the mainstream offerings. TVR are in the right market space just the product was knocked for 6 with the speed 6 engine and not enough has / could be done to restore confidence. As has been said so many times if teh current range of cars had a mainstream v8 or the speed 6 relaunched following a published statement on reliability and reengineering the cars would be selling well.
What is so sad to me is that if in teh first months that NS acquired the company he had outsorced engine production to Cosworth and offered a very cost effective exchaneg engine programme to bring cars up to the lastest warrantied design he would have had a onme off hit of several million but I'm convinced the company would be in rude health now.
David
dubbs said:
I'm very surprised that the PR men in TVR aren't using their brains and coming up with something workable. I could do better and I should know far less about the car industry than they do.
You've gone and made the assumption there that PR men have brains...
I personally am crazy about TVR and if the car was right would not scoff at paying 120k for one... if I had 120k. Get your operations sorted and call me when I'm rich chaps
I agree with Xr2, this whole cry for a small cheap TVR is naiive. A low cost, low margin car would require large volumes to generate profit. This means investing (heavily) in a plant that could scale up production way above it's recent level. This makes it a huge gamble for the company whereas a low volume high profit car does not.
But this place is really starting to get annoying as everyone here bar a few exceptions seems to be confusing what they want with what's good or 'right' for TVR. Alas the tedious wailing about the V8 and sub £40k is really just 'what I want' and nothing to do with what's right for TVR. Yes I hear you say but if that's most of us here then it is right for TVR but I say you people don't buy cars new and NS has to find a way of attracting new customers. And a reliable Speed six is fit for that purpose as few people outside ph know much about the negativity towards it over here - half of which is made up by people deluded enough to think it might persuade TVR to re-introduce a V8. It won't. But it has contributed to the demise of the company.
For the record I think the Speed Six is one of last great, charismatic supercar engines. I've bought two in the last two years and I've enjoyed every mile. I drove my Sagaris across the Alps to Monza and to the Nurburgring and back and forth to Paris several times - usually in blistering heat and appauling traffic. No problem whatsoever yet because of what I've read here I was waiting for it to go pop. It never happened but I hope you can see the psycological effect you lot have created - and that's on someone that really likes the S6!
I too love V8s among other configurations but it does depend on the V8. They are not all great and I would far rather a sorted speed six than a wheezy pushrod V8 that doesn't rev.
But this place is really starting to get annoying as everyone here bar a few exceptions seems to be confusing what they want with what's good or 'right' for TVR. Alas the tedious wailing about the V8 and sub £40k is really just 'what I want' and nothing to do with what's right for TVR. Yes I hear you say but if that's most of us here then it is right for TVR but I say you people don't buy cars new and NS has to find a way of attracting new customers. And a reliable Speed six is fit for that purpose as few people outside ph know much about the negativity towards it over here - half of which is made up by people deluded enough to think it might persuade TVR to re-introduce a V8. It won't. But it has contributed to the demise of the company.
For the record I think the Speed Six is one of last great, charismatic supercar engines. I've bought two in the last two years and I've enjoyed every mile. I drove my Sagaris across the Alps to Monza and to the Nurburgring and back and forth to Paris several times - usually in blistering heat and appauling traffic. No problem whatsoever yet because of what I've read here I was waiting for it to go pop. It never happened but I hope you can see the psycological effect you lot have created - and that's on someone that really likes the S6!
I too love V8s among other configurations but it does depend on the V8. They are not all great and I would far rather a sorted speed six than a wheezy pushrod V8 that doesn't rev.
the pits said:
I agree with Xr2, this whole cry for a small cheap TVR is naiive. A low cost, low margin car would require large volumes to generate profit. This means investing (heavily) in a plant that could scale up production way above it's recent level. This makes it a huge gamble for the company whereas a low volume high profit car does not.
But this place is really starting to get annoying as everyone here bar a few exceptions seems to be confusing what they want with what's good or 'right' for TVR. Alas the tedious wailing about the V8 and sub £40k is really just 'what I want' and nothing to do with what's right for TVR. Yes I hear you say but if that's most of us here then it is right for TVR but I say you people don't buy cars new and NS has to find a way of attracting new customers. And a reliable Speed six is fit for that purpose as few people outside ph know much about the negativity towards it over here - half of which is made up by people deluded enough to think it might persuade TVR to re-introduce a V8. It won't. But it has contributed to the demise of the company.
For the record I think the Speed Six is one of last great, charismatic supercar engines. I've bought two in the last two years and I've enjoyed every mile. I drove my Sagaris across the Alps to Monza and to the Nurburgring and back and forth to Paris several times - usually in blistering heat and appauling traffic. No problem whatsoever yet because of what I've read here I was waiting for it to go pop. It never happened but I hope you can see the psycological effect you lot have created - and that's on someone that really likes the S6!
I too love V8s among other configurations but it does depend on the V8. They are not all great and I would far rather a sorted speed six than a wheezy pushrod V8 that doesn't rev.
Well like it or not, the max power cars appeal to a younger market who either don't have the cash for TVR's at the prices they've been punted at, or more image concious and more likely to end up in a Porsche or Fezza. Bollocks? Sales over the last decade tend to back that up. But this place is really starting to get annoying as everyone here bar a few exceptions seems to be confusing what they want with what's good or 'right' for TVR. Alas the tedious wailing about the V8 and sub £40k is really just 'what I want' and nothing to do with what's right for TVR. Yes I hear you say but if that's most of us here then it is right for TVR but I say you people don't buy cars new and NS has to find a way of attracting new customers. And a reliable Speed six is fit for that purpose as few people outside ph know much about the negativity towards it over here - half of which is made up by people deluded enough to think it might persuade TVR to re-introduce a V8. It won't. But it has contributed to the demise of the company.
For the record I think the Speed Six is one of last great, charismatic supercar engines. I've bought two in the last two years and I've enjoyed every mile. I drove my Sagaris across the Alps to Monza and to the Nurburgring and back and forth to Paris several times - usually in blistering heat and appauling traffic. No problem whatsoever yet because of what I've read here I was waiting for it to go pop. It never happened but I hope you can see the psycological effect you lot have created - and that's on someone that really likes the S6!
I too love V8s among other configurations but it does depend on the V8. They are not all great and I would far rather a sorted speed six than a wheezy pushrod V8 that doesn't rev.
TVR's USP in its heyday was a huge amount of British grunt which was still affordable. We've lost the British and the affordable. Does the engine matter that much? I'm not sure, but I know for a lot of people a V8 is the epitome of grunt. Think of the animal people associate with TVR - a bulldog. Built like a brick outhouse and likely to tear your leg off, but hell yes, they're wheezy; that description could apply to either. There is a lot of affection for the old V8, and for the type of people who "get" TVR, its an ideal engine as it is very popular with lots of aftermarket support.
However good the Speed 6, it is a proprietary engine, it doesn't have a good pedigree, and its development added massive costs to TVR which have been part of its downfall, not to mention alienated a good part of its customer base. You may love it to bits, but the market didn't, and sales prove it. Would a V8 have fared any better? Who knows, there are plenty who have older cars than may have moved on to a newer version of the same thing - but that's just speculation. "You people don't buy cars new"? Chance would be a fine thing.
Pulling off a low volume high profit car requires a pedigree, or a really outstanding design. TVR don't have a company now, let alone a pedigree. The design is a rehash of something that has failed to set the market alight. And more to the point, low volume high profit is just not, and never has been, TVR's market.
the pits said:
I agree with Xr2, this whole cry for a small cheap TVR is naiive. A low cost, low margin car would require large volumes to generate profit. This means investing (heavily) in a plant that could scale up production way above it's recent level. This makes it a huge gamble for the company whereas a low volume high profit car does not.
I'd have to disagree: one only has to look to Morgan and Caterham to see that it is possible to produce desirable, reasonably priced cars that sell in modest volumes. I'm willing to bet both of these companies sold more cars that TVR over the past couple of years .... The Morgan range starts at £30K with most models available under £40K - sure they have an aspirational high end model in the Aero8, but they also address the core, lower cost end of the market. Similarly with Caterham: not every customer has to buy a near £40K CSR260, the entry level is around £15K.
And one of the key differences between Morgan, Caterham, TVR (of old) and today's TVR: they get others to supply the engines.
Gassing Station | General TVR Stuff & Gossip | Top of Page | What's New | My Stuff