New TVR still under wraps! (Vol. 3)
Discussion
Under investment. Not enough cash for start up costs. Under estimated (massively) the time it takes to start up and the cost implications of that. No expertise in the field. No idea what they were/are doing.
A few men sat around after a big meal, cigars, cognac and all a bit pissed thought it would be a good idea and easy to do.
A few men sat around after a big meal, cigars, cognac and all a bit pissed thought it would be a good idea and easy to do.
And also COVID, etc etc, the speed at which buyers of new vehicles have transitioned to electric vehicles, followed by the impending end of new sales of the internal combustion engine. They have to some degree been caught in a perfect storm. They would possibly have been in a better position if they had been starting 5 years earlier
Gazzab said:
So what’s the root cause for the new tvr’s failing? Lack of experience? Poor strategy? Lack of money? Poor product? Brand image? Market changes? Poor marketing? I suspect some of these might just be excuses. Poor strategy and lack of experience is my suggestion.
Lack of experience - tickPoor strategy - tick
Lack of money - tick tick tick tick tick (25 million times)
Brand image - post 2013 - tick
Market changes - no (but they will no doubt be used)
Poor marketing - tick
Lack of transparency - tick
Egotism - tick
Arrogance - tick
An businessman’s ‘dining out on’ fantasy gone wrong. They had a lot of flack fire shire marketing 5 years ago and did nothing about it.
A bit embarrassing really, it’s difficult to say at least they tried because the whole thing was a farce from the start what with the ridiculous helicopter charade and secret squirrel updates.
A bit embarrassing really, it’s difficult to say at least they tried because the whole thing was a farce from the start what with the ridiculous helicopter charade and secret squirrel updates.
Viper - It is very much about the market too.
Start going down the list of car-makers who have always produced a sports cars, GT's, coupes, sporty even in the loosest sense of the word. Who is producing a new model, let alone those with a V8, and how many are you left with?
The massive players like VAG and Stellantis are offering what? New Audi TT? R8? Even a Scirocco? No. Stellantis won't even do a hot hatch via Fiat, Peugeot, or Vauxhall.
Ford won't even do a hatchback for much longer, and no chance of a saloon!
BMW have launched a new M2. Do you see them launching a new Z4? Allegedly it isn't being replaced after production ends in 2025, because of slow sales. Go to a BMW showroom and you will see why. They just push you in the direction of a M2.
Lotus launched the closet rival to TVR and everyone fawned over it, with a supposedly massive order book, yet these were the headlines from Top Gear and Autocar, and many other media outlets last month:
"Lotus lost £145m in 2022 and job cuts are now looming" "Lotus proposes 200 job cuts at Hethel and Warwickshire ..."
These are the financial headlines for Aston Martin from Forbes and the FT:
"Aston Martin’s losses in 2022 rose to £495 million ($595 million) from £213.8 million ($257 million) the previous year"
"Despite lower debt interest payments, pre-tax losses at the luxury-car maker were £142.2mn for the first half of the year, compared with £285.4mn a year earlier. Revenues shot up 25 per cent to £677.4mn.
The better than expected results sent shares 5 per cent higher on Wednesday morning.
The brand spent £181mn over the six months, an increase of £43mn year on year, as it prepared for a flurry of new models over the next year that it believed would entrench a financial recovery.
The average selling price of its core cars was £184,000, 12 per cent higher than a year earlier. The brand is targeting a 40 per cent gross margin on its upcoming vehicles."
Did you note the investment figures!
It's a similar gloomy picture at McLaren.
Sure, Ferrari and Porsche will always make sports cars, and a large profit, but they are the exception, because the market just doesn't exist any more for the mainstream manufacturers, let alone the cottage industry players.
Start going down the list of car-makers who have always produced a sports cars, GT's, coupes, sporty even in the loosest sense of the word. Who is producing a new model, let alone those with a V8, and how many are you left with?
The massive players like VAG and Stellantis are offering what? New Audi TT? R8? Even a Scirocco? No. Stellantis won't even do a hot hatch via Fiat, Peugeot, or Vauxhall.
Ford won't even do a hatchback for much longer, and no chance of a saloon!
BMW have launched a new M2. Do you see them launching a new Z4? Allegedly it isn't being replaced after production ends in 2025, because of slow sales. Go to a BMW showroom and you will see why. They just push you in the direction of a M2.
Lotus launched the closet rival to TVR and everyone fawned over it, with a supposedly massive order book, yet these were the headlines from Top Gear and Autocar, and many other media outlets last month:
"Lotus lost £145m in 2022 and job cuts are now looming" "Lotus proposes 200 job cuts at Hethel and Warwickshire ..."
These are the financial headlines for Aston Martin from Forbes and the FT:
"Aston Martin’s losses in 2022 rose to £495 million ($595 million) from £213.8 million ($257 million) the previous year"
"Despite lower debt interest payments, pre-tax losses at the luxury-car maker were £142.2mn for the first half of the year, compared with £285.4mn a year earlier. Revenues shot up 25 per cent to £677.4mn.
The better than expected results sent shares 5 per cent higher on Wednesday morning.
The brand spent £181mn over the six months, an increase of £43mn year on year, as it prepared for a flurry of new models over the next year that it believed would entrench a financial recovery.
The average selling price of its core cars was £184,000, 12 per cent higher than a year earlier. The brand is targeting a 40 per cent gross margin on its upcoming vehicles."
Did you note the investment figures!
It's a similar gloomy picture at McLaren.
Sure, Ferrari and Porsche will always make sports cars, and a large profit, but they are the exception, because the market just doesn't exist any more for the mainstream manufacturers, let alone the cottage industry players.
Gazzab said:
So what’s the root cause for the new tvr’s failing? Lack of experience? Poor strategy? Lack of money? Poor product? Brand image? Market changes? Poor marketing? I suspect some of these might just be excuses. Poor strategy and lack of experience is my suggestion.
A pet project of a TVR enthusiast, who could not see how niche the actual market was.Followed by internet hype that made them actually think it was viable, and that the start up capital would flood in.
Once that failed to materialise it was turned into a cash cow instead to sucker the usual suspects in "cash rich, business experience poor" development regions, to milk it for all it was worth, Wales fell for it yet again, despite the "Not the Nine oclock news" parody from as far back as the late 70s and them already clearly being hoodwinked at the time by the "lets build a race track in the arse end of nowhere" charlatans all whilst Rockingham was actually being demolished as an abject failure.
Les then got his GMA built "one off" to play with in his garage,then probably lost interest but it's kept on life support until the cash from Drakeford final ceases.
Comical since the clowns in The Senedd have now spent a vast fortune putting up 20 mph signs throughout the Principality to make ICE cars even less environmentally friendly at that speed, whist funding a V8 gas guzzler to boot!
Edited by PAUL.S. on Wednesday 2nd August 14:06
Edited by PAUL.S. on Wednesday 2nd August 14:07
PAUL.S. said:
Gazzab said:
So what’s the root cause for the new tvr’s failing? Lack of experience? Poor strategy? Lack of money? Poor product? Brand image? Market changes? Poor marketing? I suspect some of these might just be excuses. Poor strategy and lack of experience is my suggestion.
A pet project of a TVR enthusiast, who could not see how niche the actual market was.Followed by internet hype that made them actually think it was viable, and that the start up capital would flood in.
Once that failed to materialise it was turned into a cash cow instead to sucker the usual suspects in cash rich, business experience poor development regions, to milk it for all it was worth, Wales fell for it yet again, despite the "Not the Nine oclock news" parody from as far back as the late 70s
Les then got his GMA built "one off" to play with in his garage,then probably lost interest but it's kept on life support until the cash from Drakeford final ceases.
Comical since the clowns in The Senedd have now spent a vast fortune putting up 20 mpg signs throughout the Principality to make ICE cars even less environmentally friendly at that speed, whist funding a V8 gas guzzler to boot!
Viper201 said:
Gazzab said:
So what’s the root cause for the new tvr’s failing? Lack of experience? Poor strategy? Lack of money? Poor product? Brand image? Market changes? Poor marketing? I suspect some of these might just be excuses. Poor strategy and lack of experience is my suggestion.
Lack of experience - tickPoor strategy - tick
Lack of money - tick tick tick tick tick (25 million times)
Brand image - post 2013 - tick
Market changes - no (but they will no doubt be used)
Poor marketing - tick
Lack of transparency - tick
Egotism - tick
Arrogance - tick
The cottage industry players are fast disappearing. 
Westfield Sports cars (Potenza Sports Cars Ltd) was wound up with all directors leaving in May this year.
Caterham Cars was taken over by a Japanese importer in 2021. In March it raised over £29 million in a share issue.
So, is there really a profitable market for a new TVR?
Westfield Sports cars (Potenza Sports Cars Ltd) was wound up with all directors leaving in May this year.
Caterham Cars was taken over by a Japanese importer in 2021. In March it raised over £29 million in a share issue.
So, is there really a profitable market for a new TVR?
Westfield rights were bought up, and trading again in Biceser:
https://westfield-sportscars.co.uk/
Officially called Westfield Chesil I think. They used to be up the road from me in Kingswinford and I know the bodyshop where they were making the demo models for the Chesil replica EVs. Going to be tough for them.
https://westfield-sportscars.co.uk/
Officially called Westfield Chesil I think. They used to be up the road from me in Kingswinford and I know the bodyshop where they were making the demo models for the Chesil replica EVs. Going to be tough for them.
sixor8 said:
Westfield rights were bought up, and trading again in Biceser:
https://westfield-sportscars.co.uk/
Officially called Westfield Chesil I think. They used to be up the road from me in Kingswinford and I know the bodyshop where they were making the demo models for the Chesil replica EVs. Going to be tough for them.
Yes they acquired Chesil and now up and running with new models for 2024. Hopefully that is not a TVR omen. https://westfield-sportscars.co.uk/
Officially called Westfield Chesil I think. They used to be up the road from me in Kingswinford and I know the bodyshop where they were making the demo models for the Chesil replica EVs. Going to be tough for them.
Viper201 said:
I have had the pleasure of chauffering BS's daughter around Snetterton at speed in my Chimaera, and can confirm that where daughters are concerned he has impeccable taste. It was the first and last time I have had a passenger actually laughing out loud all the way around the circuit. My passengers are normally hanging on for dear life.Not so sure about his taste in vegetables however.
Over a week of silence, then a couple of pages going over the reasons for failure again, that have been debated many times. Even this thread is starting to feel like it has run its course, never mind the actual venture. When will new TVR officially be put out of its misery? Will it see 2023 out?
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