New TVR still under wraps!
Discussion
AUTODESIGN said:
I think you have to look at this logically and rule out options and see what we are left with. Options are as follows-
1) Large Private investor- there were rumors of foreign investment but this is going to require serious £££s and cannot be described as anything other than high risk. Due to large numbers and risks involved there are very few individuals out there.
2) VC investment - The problem is that its essentially an old school business with an old school product -( thats its attraction to us but not to a VC!). A VC would almost prefer to invest in a drone that carries people from a to b even though they know the chance of success is slim.
3) Merger with a larger company- you need to instantly rule out any companies where the new TVR might be considered to be a competitor to their existing range or even not fit with the brand image- that rules out lotus , aston etc etc
4) Merger with a small company - this is a distinct possibility but slightly scratching my head as to who would be a good fit and not currently struggling- it would also involve a radical change in the overall business plan.
So i think we can assume they are in a hugely tricky position and now negotiating from a very weak footing. I think it would be safe to say that any of the above options will result in huge dilution for current shareholders and significant management changes. What i am sure of is that the next real announcement will be 'big' in either a negative or positive way and there is no middle road. i know some of you think i am just being a troll but my assumptions to date have been roughly accurate so far. I do genuinely wish this company every success but also fear for deposit holders. Les reads all these posts and its generally some of the smaller investors that hit back when the truth hurts! What i would say is that i believe Les is a genuine and honest chap with big boots.
Good points, but maybe we shouldn't rule out public funding entirely. Welsh Government already is shareholder and has provided finance and maybe the promise of jobs in a desperate area and a "flagship" company for their declared automotive park might work their magic ? Especially as this is probably not a high-volume investment.1) Large Private investor- there were rumors of foreign investment but this is going to require serious £££s and cannot be described as anything other than high risk. Due to large numbers and risks involved there are very few individuals out there.
2) VC investment - The problem is that its essentially an old school business with an old school product -( thats its attraction to us but not to a VC!). A VC would almost prefer to invest in a drone that carries people from a to b even though they know the chance of success is slim.
3) Merger with a larger company- you need to instantly rule out any companies where the new TVR might be considered to be a competitor to their existing range or even not fit with the brand image- that rules out lotus , aston etc etc
4) Merger with a small company - this is a distinct possibility but slightly scratching my head as to who would be a good fit and not currently struggling- it would also involve a radical change in the overall business plan.
So i think we can assume they are in a hugely tricky position and now negotiating from a very weak footing. I think it would be safe to say that any of the above options will result in huge dilution for current shareholders and significant management changes. What i am sure of is that the next real announcement will be 'big' in either a negative or positive way and there is no middle road. i know some of you think i am just being a troll but my assumptions to date have been roughly accurate so far. I do genuinely wish this company every success but also fear for deposit holders. Les reads all these posts and its generally some of the smaller investors that hit back when the truth hurts! What i would say is that i believe Les is a genuine and honest chap with big boots.
spagbogdog said:
What they don’t yet have is their own design-house identity ...thus maybe some kind of special relationship with GMD is on the cards...
Didn’t someone comment a while back that the relationship with GMD had deteriorated significantly recently? Don’t think there was anything to back that statement up but if it’s true (and it would be a rather specific thing to speculate upon, outside the realm of everything else that was being discussed at the time), then a special relationship is probably not on the cards.bullittmcqueen said:
AUTODESIGN said:
I think you have to look at this logically and rule out options and see what we are left with. Options are as follows-
1) Large Private investor- there were rumors of foreign investment but this is going to require serious £££s and cannot be described as anything other than high risk. Due to large numbers and risks involved there are very few individuals out there.
2) VC investment - The problem is that its essentially an old school business with an old school product -( thats its attraction to us but not to a VC!). A VC would almost prefer to invest in a drone that carries people from a to b even though they know the chance of success is slim.
3) Merger with a larger company- you need to instantly rule out any companies where the new TVR might be considered to be a competitor to their existing range or even not fit with the brand image- that rules out lotus , aston etc etc
4) Merger with a small company - this is a distinct possibility but slightly scratching my head as to who would be a good fit and not currently struggling- it would also involve a radical change in the overall business plan.
So i think we can assume they are in a hugely tricky position and now negotiating from a very weak footing. I think it would be safe to say that any of the above options will result in huge dilution for current shareholders and significant management changes. What i am sure of is that the next real announcement will be 'big' in either a negative or positive way and there is no middle road. i know some of you think i am just being a troll but my assumptions to date have been roughly accurate so far. I do genuinely wish this company every success but also fear for deposit holders. Les reads all these posts and its generally some of the smaller investors that hit back when the truth hurts! What i would say is that i believe Les is a genuine and honest chap with big boots.
Good points, but maybe we shouldn't rule out public funding entirely. Welsh Government already is shareholder and has provided finance and maybe the promise of jobs in a desperate area and a "flagship" company for their declared automotive park might work their magic ? Especially as this is probably not a high-volume investment.1) Large Private investor- there were rumors of foreign investment but this is going to require serious £££s and cannot be described as anything other than high risk. Due to large numbers and risks involved there are very few individuals out there.
2) VC investment - The problem is that its essentially an old school business with an old school product -( thats its attraction to us but not to a VC!). A VC would almost prefer to invest in a drone that carries people from a to b even though they know the chance of success is slim.
3) Merger with a larger company- you need to instantly rule out any companies where the new TVR might be considered to be a competitor to their existing range or even not fit with the brand image- that rules out lotus , aston etc etc
4) Merger with a small company - this is a distinct possibility but slightly scratching my head as to who would be a good fit and not currently struggling- it would also involve a radical change in the overall business plan.
So i think we can assume they are in a hugely tricky position and now negotiating from a very weak footing. I think it would be safe to say that any of the above options will result in huge dilution for current shareholders and significant management changes. What i am sure of is that the next real announcement will be 'big' in either a negative or positive way and there is no middle road. i know some of you think i am just being a troll but my assumptions to date have been roughly accurate so far. I do genuinely wish this company every success but also fear for deposit holders. Les reads all these posts and its generally some of the smaller investors that hit back when the truth hurts! What i would say is that i believe Les is a genuine and honest chap with big boots.
Did someone at the back whisper 'Delorean'
The question is though what do TVR have to offer any potential investor ?
They are a one trick pony still awaiting birth in an era that is fast moving away from the type of cars TVR are known for, without the current means to even start up production of a limited desirability niche car, not a great platform to invest large amounts of money into.
Even if they do get sufficient funds to get the ball rolling I would suggest they will face continual cash flow/ money issues and don't see them surviving more than a few years at best.
They probably need somebody who is willing to invest with the heart not the head.
They are a one trick pony still awaiting birth in an era that is fast moving away from the type of cars TVR are known for, without the current means to even start up production of a limited desirability niche car, not a great platform to invest large amounts of money into.
Even if they do get sufficient funds to get the ball rolling I would suggest they will face continual cash flow/ money issues and don't see them surviving more than a few years at best.
They probably need somebody who is willing to invest with the heart not the head.
pincher said:
spagbogdog said:
What they don’t yet have is their own design-house identity ...thus maybe some kind of special relationship with GMD is on the cards...
Didn’t someone comment a while back that the relationship with GMD had deteriorated significantly recently? Don’t think there was anything to back that statement up but if it’s true (and it would be a rather specific thing to speculate upon, outside the realm of everything else that was being discussed at the time), then a special relationship is probably not on the cards.
AUTODESIGN said:
I think you have to look at this logically and rule out options and see what we are left with. Options are as follows-
1) Large Private investor- there were rumors of foreign investment but this is going to require serious £££s and cannot be described as anything other than high risk. Due to large numbers and risks involved there are very few individuals out there.
2) VC investment - The problem is that its essentially an old school business with an old school product -( thats its attraction to us but not to a VC!). A VC would almost prefer to invest in a drone that carries people from a to b even though they know the chance of success is slim.
3) Merger with a larger company- you need to instantly rule out any companies where the new TVR might be considered to be a competitor to their existing range or even not fit with the brand image- that rules out lotus , aston etc etc
4) Merger with a small company - this is a distinct possibility but slightly scratching my head as to who would be a good fit and not currently struggling- it would also involve a radical change in the overall business plan.
.
...or 5) some rich bloke (or girl) decides they want to see the car succeed, want to drive one, fancies a dabble in the car industry and maybe hope to make a bit of cash too..but not with the same focus on a return as a 'proper' VC investor. Apparently the Pythons has no cash for Life of Brian and George Harrison stepped in to finance it as he wanted to see the movie - often told as the most expensive cinema ticket in history. So who might have lots of cash, a petrolhead, and who might want a new TVR to scoot about in and wants some fun in the car business?1) Large Private investor- there were rumors of foreign investment but this is going to require serious £££s and cannot be described as anything other than high risk. Due to large numbers and risks involved there are very few individuals out there.
2) VC investment - The problem is that its essentially an old school business with an old school product -( thats its attraction to us but not to a VC!). A VC would almost prefer to invest in a drone that carries people from a to b even though they know the chance of success is slim.
3) Merger with a larger company- you need to instantly rule out any companies where the new TVR might be considered to be a competitor to their existing range or even not fit with the brand image- that rules out lotus , aston etc etc
4) Merger with a small company - this is a distinct possibility but slightly scratching my head as to who would be a good fit and not currently struggling- it would also involve a radical change in the overall business plan.
.
...but I'm still betting on some sort of Ford connection...
tvrolet said:
.... So who might have lots of cash, a petrolhead, and who might want a new TVR to scoot about in and wants some fun in the car business?...
Well you'd need some rich millionaire who likes cars, is a bit of a petrolhead and perhaps made a shed load of money in IT or software or computer games or something. 
I can't see any other mainstream manufacturer getting involved given the amount of Ford technology in the car - the same approach killed the Sunbeam Tiger when Chrysler bought Sunbeam-Talbot. So the question is whether Ford want more involvement? I wonder if there is a new sub-brand appearing here to allow them to compete with Porsche/Ferrari et al as however good their cars, such as the GT, are Ford suffers from brand snobbery.
That would allow all of the Ford engineering/legislative/buying power to be used to develop a range of TVRs that would be sold alongside Ford showrooms, a bit like BMW vs. Mini. It also means Ford don't lose management time on what will be, by their standards, a niche product which provides a halo. TVR history is the working class hero taking on the sportscar elite on value for money/performance, and in that way echoes the Ford brand position in the wider market.
It would also explain delays - wheels in big companies grind slow and have to work to the drum of the stockmarket.
Hmmmmm
That would allow all of the Ford engineering/legislative/buying power to be used to develop a range of TVRs that would be sold alongside Ford showrooms, a bit like BMW vs. Mini. It also means Ford don't lose management time on what will be, by their standards, a niche product which provides a halo. TVR history is the working class hero taking on the sportscar elite on value for money/performance, and in that way echoes the Ford brand position in the wider market.
It would also explain delays - wheels in big companies grind slow and have to work to the drum of the stockmarket.
Hmmmmm
RichB said:
tvrolet said:
.... So who might have lots of cash, a petrolhead, and who might want a new TVR to scoot about in and wants some fun in the car business?...
Well you'd need some rich millionaire who likes cars, is a bit of a petrolhead and perhaps made a shed load of money in IT or software or computer games or something. Konrod said:
I can't see any other mainstream manufacturer getting involved given the amount of Ford technology in the car - the same approach killed the Sunbeam Tiger when Chrysler bought Sunbeam-Talbot. So the question is whether Ford want more involvement? I wonder if there is a new sub-brand appearing here to allow them to compete with Porsche/Ferrari et al as however good their cars, such as the GT, are Ford suffers from brand snobbery.
That would allow all of the Ford engineering/legislative/buying power to be used to develop a range of TVRs that would be sold alongside Ford showrooms, a bit like BMW vs. Mini. It also means Ford don't lose management time on what will be, by their standards, a niche product which provides a halo. TVR history is the working class hero taking on the sportscar elite on value for money/performance, and in that way echoes the Ford brand position in the wider market.
It would also explain delays - wheels in big companies grind slow and have to work to the drum of the stockmarket.
Hmmmmm
Umm.... they had Aston Martin. Oh and Jaguar. They sold them both.That would allow all of the Ford engineering/legislative/buying power to be used to develop a range of TVRs that would be sold alongside Ford showrooms, a bit like BMW vs. Mini. It also means Ford don't lose management time on what will be, by their standards, a niche product which provides a halo. TVR history is the working class hero taking on the sportscar elite on value for money/performance, and in that way echoes the Ford brand position in the wider market.
It would also explain delays - wheels in big companies grind slow and have to work to the drum of the stockmarket.
Hmmmmm
There is no way in the world that FOMOCO would want to buy “TVR”. If they had wanted to do that they could have done so in 2005, when there was something to buy like a factory, know how and some heritage, or at anytime since.
unrepentant said:
Konrod said:
I can't see any other mainstream manufacturer getting involved given the amount of Ford technology in the car - the same approach killed the Sunbeam Tiger when Chrysler bought Sunbeam-Talbot. So the question is whether Ford want more involvement? I wonder if there is a new sub-brand appearing here to allow them to compete with Porsche/Ferrari et al as however good their cars, such as the GT, are Ford suffers from brand snobbery.
That would allow all of the Ford engineering/legislative/buying power to be used to develop a range of TVRs that would be sold alongside Ford showrooms, a bit like BMW vs. Mini. It also means Ford don't lose management time on what will be, by their standards, a niche product which provides a halo. TVR history is the working class hero taking on the sportscar elite on value for money/performance, and in that way echoes the Ford brand position in the wider market.
It would also explain delays - wheels in big companies grind slow and have to work to the drum of the stockmarket.
Hmmmmm
Umm.... they had Aston Martin. Oh and Jaguar. They sold them both.That would allow all of the Ford engineering/legislative/buying power to be used to develop a range of TVRs that would be sold alongside Ford showrooms, a bit like BMW vs. Mini. It also means Ford don't lose management time on what will be, by their standards, a niche product which provides a halo. TVR history is the working class hero taking on the sportscar elite on value for money/performance, and in that way echoes the Ford brand position in the wider market.
It would also explain delays - wheels in big companies grind slow and have to work to the drum of the stockmarket.
Hmmmmm
There is no way in the world that FOMOCO would want to buy “TVR”. If they had wanted to do that they could have done so in 2005, when there was something to buy like a factory, know how and some heritage, or at anytime since.
msmit660 said:
Has anyone considered Shelby International and the Griffith as a modern day replacement for the Daytona Coupe, there are some interesting parallels and opportunities, they previously raced at La Mans, Supercharging Ford 5.0L V8 engines, and manufactures component automobiles.
Good call. Apart from the badge, there's probably more in common with the Daytona than any prior TVR since the original Ford V8-powered Griffith. If Sheby badged-up the new TVR as the Shelby Daytona II I don't think anyone would doubt the lineage - a coupe, front engine Ford V8, side exhausts etc.unrepentant said:
Konrod said:
I can't see any other mainstream manufacturer getting involved given the amount of Ford technology in the car - the same approach killed the Sunbeam Tiger when Chrysler bought Sunbeam-Talbot. So the question is whether Ford want more involvement? I wonder if there is a new sub-brand appearing here to allow them to compete with Porsche/Ferrari et al as however good their cars, such as the GT, are Ford suffers from brand snobbery.
That would allow all of the Ford engineering/legislative/buying power to be used to develop a range of TVRs that would be sold alongside Ford showrooms, a bit like BMW vs. Mini. It also means Ford don't lose management time on what will be, by their standards, a niche product which provides a halo. TVR history is the working class hero taking on the sportscar elite on value for money/performance, and in that way echoes the Ford brand position in the wider market.
It would also explain delays - wheels in big companies grind slow and have to work to the drum of the stockmarket.
Hmmmmm
Umm.... they had Aston Martin. Oh and Jaguar. They sold them both.That would allow all of the Ford engineering/legislative/buying power to be used to develop a range of TVRs that would be sold alongside Ford showrooms, a bit like BMW vs. Mini. It also means Ford don't lose management time on what will be, by their standards, a niche product which provides a halo. TVR history is the working class hero taking on the sportscar elite on value for money/performance, and in that way echoes the Ford brand position in the wider market.
It would also explain delays - wheels in big companies grind slow and have to work to the drum of the stockmarket.
Hmmmmm
There is no way in the world that FOMOCO would want to buy “TVR”. If they had wanted to do that they could have done so in 2005, when there was something to buy like a factory, know how and some heritage, or at anytime since.
For supplying the engine, Ford would make an obvious choice but I am not so sure Ford will want to venture out into the market. Currently their huge profits are made from selling the F150 trucks, a far cry from a GT type of car from a small volume manufacturer. But, who knows?
Testarossa said:
RichB said:
tvrolet said:
.... So who might have lots of cash, a petrolhead, and who might want a new TVR to scoot about in and wants some fun in the car business?...
Well you'd need some rich millionaire who likes cars, is a bit of a petrolhead and perhaps made a shed load of money in IT or software or computer games or something. https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=vMoWnu2eAB0
Just spotted this, and whilst it’s not my sort of thing I think it’s one of the best PR moves the company have made yet
It’s definitely the best way to increase awareness amongst the yoof these days, and watching as much of the video and reading as much of the comments as I could bear it seems to have gone down well
Just spotted this, and whilst it’s not my sort of thing I think it’s one of the best PR moves the company have made yet
It’s definitely the best way to increase awareness amongst the yoof these days, and watching as much of the video and reading as much of the comments as I could bear it seems to have gone down well
CanoeSniffer said:
https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=vMoWnu2eAB0
Just spotted this, and whilst it’s not my sort of thing I think it’s one of the best PR moves the company have made yet
It’s definitely the best way to increase awareness amongst the yoof these days, and watching as much of the video and reading as much of the comments as I could bear it seems to have gone down well
Brilliant, thx. Just spotted this, and whilst it’s not my sort of thing I think it’s one of the best PR moves the company have made yet
It’s definitely the best way to increase awareness amongst the yoof these days, and watching as much of the video and reading as much of the comments as I could bear it seems to have gone down well
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