New TVR confirmed

[Transmitter Man]

N7GTX said:

Or, as Mr Edgar said, "the engine being developed by Cosworth is based on a V8 block engineered to our specification to deliver power tuned to the best driving experience for the car. The first car we release will be a TVR on every level - unapologetic, loud and proud to be British. It will be a Ferrari, Lamborghini and Aston Martin beater on all levels, a giant slayer..."

That sounds like it might be quite fast then. Or just a boast?

And the Americans are pitching this in the ring for £55k -

http://www.pistonheads.com/news/ph-americancars/sh...

Edited by N7GTX on Thursday 18th June 23:45

...and you'll need every one of those 750 ponies to drag the 1744kg Mustang along.

Phil

[DonkeyApple]

N7GTX said:

Or, as Mr Edgar said, "the engine being developed by Cosworth is based on a V8 block engineered to our specification to deliver power tuned to the best driving experience for the car. The first car we release will be a TVR on every level - unapologetic, loud and proud to be British. It will be a Ferrari, Lamborghini and Aston Martin beater on all levels, a giant slayer..."

That sounds like it might be quite fast then. Or just a boast?

And the Americans are pitching this in the ring for £55k -

http://www.pistonheads.com/news/ph-americancars/sh...

Edited by N7GTX on Thursday 18th June 23:45

To me, a TVR beats those brands on almost every level which is why I have one. And I suspect it is the same for many TVR fans.

However, let's be honest with ourselves, it's a pretty bold claim from LE. You'd have to fit a nurse and a bingo hall into the new TVR to get more pensioner support systems than those cars. And the contents of GCHQ to get more computing power.

I can see a new Tiv having an interior more inline with an Aston than a Caterham and looks more akin to Lambo than VW and some pretty impressive performance. But I think that claim is a little over exuberant?

[ORD]

DonkeyApple said:

To me, a TVR beats those brands on almost every level which is why I have one. And I suspect it is the same for many TVR fans.

However, let's be honest with ourselves, it's a pretty bold claim from LE. You'd have to fit a nurse and a bingo hall into the new TVR to get more pensioner support systems than those cars. And the contents of GCHQ to get more computing power.

I can see a new Tiv having an interior more inline with an Aston than a Caterham and looks more akin to Lambo than VW and some pretty impressive performance. But I think that claim is a little over exuberant?

It's a very unrealistic claim. TVR cannot hope to compete on 'every level' with those brands - it won't be as as fast as a Lambo or Fezza, it won't be as easy to drive as any of them, and it won't have the same equipment and NVH levels.

That's not saying it won't be a better drivers' car, which is definitely what it should be aiming to be. A better car in the ways that matter to enthusiasts, but that's different from saying that you are going 'Head to head'. It's the kind of crap that Autocar will pick up on and use to beat the car mercilessly for some perceived fault like, I dunno, not having 8 driving modes and an espresso machine.

[ChilliWhizz]

ORD said:

I would be quite surprised to see your archaic car keep pace with a Gayman on anything but a motorway, to be honest. Never known for going around corners.

Like I said a few pages back, come along to a track day and meet some TVR peeps, you never know, you might be surprised at how quick some of our archaic cars can go round corners... and accelerate out of them

[julian64]

I've been in a cayman and a few TVRs as passenger and driver on both silverstone and Brands hatch.

I couldn't tell which one is faster. I suspect most TVRs are faster, but its only a guess.

What I can tell you is that it was silent in the cayman, and in most of the TVR's there was rather unsettling hysterical laughter.

I can also tell you that on Brands hatch I had complaints from the local caterham club when I took my Cerb. The complaint was that I was overtaking them on the straights (probably pulling 50-100yds on them), and yet they weren't allowed to overtake me back on the bends due to the restrictions of track days so I was slowling them all up on the corners.

When I did pull wide at the corners and a caterham went inside he was promptly back flagged.

I had the most epic day because I was trying not to baulk them in the corners, meaning I was entering a lot of corners far too hot, hence the hysterical laughter.

Track times are meaningless, but even if they had let corner overtaking go on, the caterhams would have had to pull out a long lead though the twisties not to be overtaken on the straight, and that was a circuit which favoured them way over a TVR.

[blueg33]

I used to own a Tuscan, it was very quick in a straight line and had all of the mods recommeneded to improve the handling and bump steer etc. But is was never good on a twisty or bumpy road.

I was pretty depressed to be overtaken on some French twisties by a mate in a diesel Range Rover, he could carry way more speed through the corners. Ok he is an ex professional racing driver and I am only average.

The poor and unpredictable handling was ultimately why I sold the car. My Current Evora has 100bhp less, but I am totally confident that it is quicker from A to B on any English B road with some bends purely because it handles better, its more progressive, has better grip and is more predictable overall.

If TVR can get decent power and good handling then that's ideal, if they can't get the handling sorted they will be slated by the motoring press and struggle with sales. A few TVR loving PH'ers as a customer base do not make for a sustainable business model.

[chris watton]

blueg33 said:

I used to own a Tuscan, it was very quick in a straight line and had all of the mods recommeneded to improve the handling and bump steer etc. But is was never good on a twisty or bumpy road.

I was pretty depressed to be overtaken on some French twisties by a mate in a diesel Range Rover, he could carry way more speed through the corners. Ok he is an ex professional racing driver and I am only average.

The poor and unpredictable handling was ultimately why I sold the car. My Current Evora has 100bhp less, but I am totally confident that it is quicker from A to B on any English B road with some bends purely because it handles better, its more progressive, has better grip and is more predictable overall.

If TVR can get decent power and good handling then that's ideal, if they can't get the handling sorted they will be slated by the motoring press and struggle with sales. A few TVR loving PH'ers as a customer base do not make for a sustainable business model.

Funny you mention the Tuscan, when I wanted to trade in my Chim 450, I really wanted one. I test drove one and a Tamora. the Tuscan was as twitchy as the Chim on the corners, made worse due to the huge power increase over the Chim, whereas the Tamora was planted and so much more fun to drive (for me).

IIRC, hardly a week went by 'back in the day' where there wasn't a post about another Tuscan wrecked, or worse.

The MKII's were much better, handling-wise, it seems.

[DonkeyApple]

blueg33 said:

I used to own a Tuscan, it was very quick in a straight line and had all of the mods recommeneded to improve the handling and bump steer etc. But is was never good on a twisty or bumpy road.

I was pretty depressed to be overtaken on some French twisties by a mate in a diesel Range Rover, he could carry way more speed through the corners. Ok he is an ex professional racing driver and I am only average.

The poor and unpredictable handling was ultimately why I sold the car. My Current Evora has 100bhp less, but I am totally confident that it is quicker from A to B on any English B road with some bends purely because it handles better, its more progressive, has better grip and is more predictable overall.

If TVR can get decent power and good handling then that's ideal, if they can't get the handling sorted they will be slated by the motoring press and struggle with sales. A few TVR loving PH'ers as a customer base do not make for a sustainable business model.

I agree 100% with that as well as Julian's remark about silent Porsche's and giggling fits in a TVR. A Boxster is an awesome car and the Cayman better still but to get a thrill from a set of corners on an English road means travelling simply too quickly to be prudent. Ignoring those who buy into Porsche for the kudos it is clear that the true enthusiasts buy such a car for a different set of parameters to why an enthusiast buys a TVR. There isn't an awful lot of crossover in reality.

And as Blue33 says, handling will be a crucial component of this new car. It definitely has to put to bed that negative aspect.

But I don't think it will be an issue to concern ourselves over. It will be far more rigid than old models and they won't be dumping on any old suspension kit with an almost 'that'll do' attitude of the past. The consortium appear heavily involved in Motorsport and I'm quite confident that any new car will perform far better than our old ones.

Will it outperform a Porsche? Well, I don't think so on basic metrics and with normal drivers. Going up against an extremely well designed mid engined car that is full of amazing electronics and in some cases 4wd is not a level playing field when you're a front engines RWD car with far more simplistic electronic aids.

I suspect that in the hands of a very good racer then you might turn the tables but an average pleb like most of us is probably going to be able to go faster in the Porsche.

Maybe easier to compare to an Aston, Jag or AMG?

[blueg33]

chris watton said:

Funny you mention the Tuscan, when I wanted to trade in my Chim 450, I really wanted one. I test drove one and a Tamora. the Tuscan was as twitchy as the Chim on the corners, made worse due to the huge power increase over the Chim, whereas the Tamora was planted and so much more fun to drive (for me).

IIRC, hardly a week went by 'back in the day' where there wasn't a post about another Tuscan wrecked, or worse.

The MKII's were much better, handling-wise, it seems.

Indeed. I drove a few Tams and a MKii they were definitely better, but still wouldn't match a Cayman for instance.

If TVR can get it right, I would be highly likely to buy one. But for me it would have to work as a daily driver and a sense of occasion fun car

[ChilliWhizz]

blueg33 said:

chris watton said:

Funny you mention the Tuscan, when I wanted to trade in my Chim 450, I really wanted one. I test drove one and a Tamora. the Tuscan was as twitchy as the Chim on the corners, made worse due to the huge power increase over the Chim, whereas the Tamora was planted and so much more fun to drive (for me).

IIRC, hardly a week went by 'back in the day' where there wasn't a post about another Tuscan wrecked, or worse.

The MKII's were much better, handling-wise, it seems.

Indeed. I drove a few Tams and a MKii they were definitely better, but still wouldn't match a Cayman for instance.

If TVR can get it right, I would be highly likely to buy one. But for me it would have to work as a daily driver and a sense of occasion fun car

Oh dear, I think you lads need a bit of a reality check...... As the old saying goes, anyone can drive a fast car, only some people can drive a car fast... And the truth of it is if you can get from A-B in one of these cars (on the Queens highway) quicker than you can in another then you'd have to be driving it completely flat out.... shame on you if that's what you're doing on public roads

Here's the reality bit... taken from the List of Top Gear test track Power Lap Times...

Sagaris: 1:24.6
Tuscan 2: 1:24.8
Evora: 1:25.7
Cayman S: 1:26.7

Yep, New TVR will really have to up there game from old TVR if they want the cars to go round corners quickly

[chris watton]

ChilliWhizz said:

Oh dear, I think you lads need a bit of a reality check...... As the old saying goes, anyone can drive a fast car, only some people can drive a car fast... And the truth of it is if you can get from A-B in one of these cars (on the Queens highway) quicker than you can in another then you'd have to be driving it completely flat out.... shame on you if that's what you're doing on public roads

Here's the reality bit... taken from the List of Top Gear test track Power Lap Times...

Sagaris: 1:24.6
Tuscan 2: 1:24.8
Evora: 1:25.7
Cayman S: 1:26.7

Yep, New TVR will really have to up there game from old TVR if they want the cars to go round corners quickly

Eh!

I was talking about my experiences on the twisties (between 50-70mph), not flat out along straight roads - and I was comparing a factory spec Tuscan 1 to a factory spec Tamora. I even mentioned that the Tuscan 2 handled better.

[blueg33]

You don't have to be driving flat out to be quick. Yu need good entry and exit speeds in the corners. That does not mean flat out at all. There are plenty of bends around here that need a really well set up car to take at 60mph (the speed limit).

[ChilliWhizz]

chris watton said:

Eh!

I was talking about my experiences on the twisties (between 50-70mph), not flat out along straight roads - and I was comparing a factory spec Tuscan 1 to a factory spec Tamora. I even mentioned that the Tuscan 2 handled better.

Apologies Chris wasn't having a pop at you, and not just those in the quote, but the Top Gear times do bring a bit of objective perspective to some beliefs some have about what's quick and what isn't...

FWIW, a couple of months back I was sat behind an Evora S on a PH run out, probably for about 30-40 miles of nice country roads, and we weren't hanging about... I know for a fact we could have both driven much faster and still stayed in close formation, but we would have become a danger to ourselves and other road users. So we didn't. I just think this 'quicker from A to B on country roads' is complete nonsense with cars this close in performance... just my personal opinion and not meant to insult

[DonkeyApple]

blueg33 said:

You don't have to be driving flat out to be quick. Yu need good entry and exit speeds in the corners. That does not mean flat out at all. There are plenty of bends around here that need a really well set up car to take at 60mph (the speed limit).

My Griff was very lively out in the Cotswolds. The T350 was massively superior but still suffered on the badly surfaced roads. The Typhon is unbelievable to the point of being the more boring of the three. But what is shows to me is that a slightly wider and longer car, on Ohlins and most importantly with a really rigid chassis makes a massive difference.

The engine in this new car is clearly going to go and sound appropriately for a Tiv but also we must assume that the iStream process is going to deliver a chassis far superior to our old cars.

So for me it's the cosmetic aspects that are there for debate. I'm sure they will give it an interior in line with TVR tradition so I'm not even worried about that but the big hurdle has to be the exterior looks.

What styling queues, if any, will it take from older models and which models? Will it look retro so as to appeal to the massively booming classic market or will it be ultra modern. Will it be OTT or more sensible.

I suspect the highest number of potential buyers lie in the more sensible spectrum of looks and probably also more classic than modern.

[ORD]

Quoting Top Gear tests? We really are into middle aged pub bore world now. An ex pro racing driver will, unless one of the cars is pretty much unusable, end up with relative lap times that reflect the different p/w ratios. A very different q from what happens in the hands of a modestly capable driver.

In any case, who cares? Nobody tests a car's limits on public roads and driving is about safe enjoyment, not racing yourself or anyone else

[RichB]

ORD said:

Quoting Top Gear tests? We really are into middle aged pub bore world now. An ex pro racing driver will, unless one of the cars is pretty much unusable, end up with relative lap times that reflect the different p/w ratios. A very different q from what happens in the hands of a modestly capable driver.

In any case, who cares? Nobody tests a car's limits on public roads and driving is about safe enjoyment, not racing yourself or anyone else

The irony being that Porsche especially, and other expensive sports car manufacturers do love a Nürburgring lap time all desperate to beat each other. Not that anyone pays any attention to it!

[ChilliWhizz]

ORD said:

Quoting Top Gear tests? We really are into middle aged pub bore world now. An ex pro racing driver will, unless one of the cars is pretty much unusable, end up with relative lap times that reflect the different p/w ratios. A very different q from what happens in the hands of a modestly capable driver.

What I think you've missed the point of my posting the TG lap times...

ORD said:

In any case, who cares? Nobody tests a car's limits on public roads and driving is about safe enjoyment, not racing yourself or anyone else

Finally, you actually agree with something I've said

[N7GTX]

Transmitter Man said:

N7GTX said:

Or, as Mr Edgar said, "the engine being developed by Cosworth is based on a V8 block engineered to our specification to deliver power tuned to the best driving experience for the car. The first car we release will be a TVR on every level - unapologetic, loud and proud to be British. It will be a Ferrari, Lamborghini and Aston Martin beater on all levels, a giant slayer..."

That sounds like it might be quite fast then. Or just a boast?

And the Americans are pitching this in the ring for £55k -

http://www.pistonheads.com/news/ph-americancars/sh...

Edited by N7GTX on Thursday 18th June 23:45

...and you'll need every one of those 750 ponies to drag the 1744kg Mustang along.

Phil

Nissan GTR (2015 specs). Power 545 bhp and 463 lbs/ft torque. Weight of 1723kgs. 0-60 time 2.9 secs (with launch control).

So I don't think the Mustang will be so far away.

[N7GTX]

ORD said:

DonkeyApple said:

To me, a TVR beats those brands on almost every level which is why I have one. And I suspect it is the same for many TVR fans.

However, let's be honest with ourselves, it's a pretty bold claim from LE. You'd have to fit a nurse and a bingo hall into the new TVR to get more pensioner support systems than those cars. And the contents of GCHQ to get more computing power.

I can see a new Tiv having an interior more inline with an Aston than a Caterham and looks more akin to Lambo than VW and some pretty impressive performance. But I think that claim is a little over exuberant?

It's a very unrealistic claim.

Which begs the question: why should we believe any of the other claims made? For TVR afficionados they will want to believe the hype. For owners of other marques who may be tempted to switch, claims like this do not help at all if they are so unrealistic.

If the quote was posted on Ferrari, Porsche, Lambo or A.M. sections on PH, can you imagine the replies???

[350Matt]

Just a quick point a Ferrari 458 has 562Bhp and weighs 1485 kg

so Power to weight of 378Bhp / ton and is £250K?


new TVR 450Bhp and 1100kg = 409Bhp / ton and will be £55K.......

its not going to be a slouch is it