New TVR still under wraps! (Vol. 2)
Discussion
baconsarney said:
Talking about veg is far less depressing 
Difficult to get away from it Richard.Has anyone listened to this series on the Beeb?
https://www.bbc.co.uk/programmes/w13xtvb6
This episode particularly is interesting.
I believe it has been produced like this so idiots like me can understand it!
https://www.bbc.co.uk/sounds/play/w3ct0xb9
N7GTX said:
It seems Afghanistan has huge reserves of minerals which the Chinese are very interested in including possibly the world's largest lithium deposits. So we can go from gas and oil in the middle east to lithium in another war torn country, Excellent.
It's funny that the West normally assists in a war when there is something we want like oil and a grateful and easily manipulated government.Seems we are leaving war too early for a change.
N7GTX said:
It seems Afghanistan has huge reserves of minerals which the Chinese are very interested in including possibly the world's largest lithium deposits. So we can go from gas and oil in the middle east to lithium in another war torn country, Excellent.
Good point.Politicians are not know for thinking things through though.
QBee said:
skwdenyer said:
And finally: "eco" methanol from CO2 capture provides a route to us all enjoying big V8 engines in cars for a while longer 
Not just this comment, but the entire methanol argument - unless my A level chemistry has deserted me, aren't the products of combustion of methanol water and CO2?Or are you all in the methanol school of thinking arguing that for every molecule of CO2 absorbed to make methanol, we will only produce one molecule of CO2 when we burn it, so it is net zero?
(apologies for non-standard symbology due to PH limitations).
Yes, the only C & O available to be released as CO2 in methanol are the same molecules used in its production. You cannot emit what is not in the fuel.
That's the whole point. Net zero CO2 emissions *and* the atmosphere is the "sink" by which the tailpipe CO2 is "returned" to be processed into more methanol.
silentbrown said:
This is nonsense, surely?
32m cars, 7,600 miles per car @ 4.4 miles/KwH (Tesla 3 figure) = 55TWh
Total UK generation last year : 312TWh
If I've dropped some zeroes, please say.
Not remotely fantasy.32m cars, 7,600 miles per car @ 4.4 miles/KwH (Tesla 3 figure) = 55TWh
Total UK generation last year : 312TWh
If I've dropped some zeroes, please say.
In the first place annual average mileage is generally accepted to be 12,000 miles.
Thus, even by Tesla's figures that requires not 55TWh but 86.845 TWh.
That assumes you buy into the world's greatest snake oil salesman's calculations. More realistically, we are looking at 120/130 TWh.
That is a little over 1/3rd if this could happen overnight.
The reality is that it clearly cannot happen overnight, so we must look at the broader picture.
Average electricity demand is reckoned to be +5 to 7 % per annum. So in ten years time supply needs to virtually double to approx 614TWh. without allowing for any increase in EVs which would take it to 734/744 TWh .at a minimum.
But we don't stop there. The electrification of the railways, additional tramways, and the conversion of home heating to electricity etc. is certain to drive that annual net increase to well over 10% average.
Even at just 11% pa average that is approx 886TWh req. within in a decade, plus the projected 120/130 TWh for EVs, and that gives you a figure of approx 1016TWh, very nearly the fourfold increase mentioned.
By the time you theoretically bring all those vehicles onstream, and accounting for decreased efficiency as they age, the quadrupling of electricity generation begins to look quite modest.
Laying this argument aside. what we see in an ongoing crisis in the First World as a whole to generate enough power without the additional burden of EVs.
The zealots will disagree; but that is the nature of the beast.
Edited by Jack.Regan on Saturday 28th August 19:07
Jack.Regan said:
In the first place annual average mileage is generally accepted to be 12,000 miles.
"Generally accepted", but wrong. Government figures are based on MOT mileage recordings.
|https://thumbsnap.com/h21Q8ZN9[/url]https://www.racfoundation.org/motoring-faqs/mobili...
Jack.Regan said:
That assumes you buy into the world's greatest snake oil salesman's calculations. More realistically, we are looking at 120/130 TWh.
It's a WLTP figure, not Tesla's. But I'll give you a "pass" because real-world range is very likely to somewhat worse.Jack.Regan said:
Average electricity demand is reckoned to be +5/
5 to 7 % per annum. So in ten years time supply needs to virtually double to approx 614TWh
This, however is total fantasy. 5 to 7 % per annum. So in ten years time supply needs to virtually double to approx 614TWh
https://www.statista.com/statistics/323381/total-d...
I am firmly of the opinion that all this technical stuff being discussed about EV’s and methanol etc is of less relevance to ‘new’ Griff than my courgettes are. I mean at least the veg discussions include pictures. Still, it’s good that we can discuss a range of interesting if disparate subjects on the same thread…
baconsarney said:
I am firmly of the opinion that all this technical stuff being discussed about EV’s and methanol etc is of less relevance to ‘new’ Griff than my courgettes are. I mean at least the veg discussions include pictures. Still, it’s good that we can discuss a range of interesting if disparate subjects on the same thread…
What does a dull conversation about vegetables have to do with TVRs? Nothing. Give it a rest. Please. There’s a series come up on Netflix featuring the Delorean story.
Goes through the journey of drumming up deposits, some real, some “promised”, partnering up with the design guru of that era “Colin Chapman”, only having a couple of prototypes to tour the world, getting funds from a government, building a factory in a deprived area, but really needs about 100m to make it work .. you know the drill now
It all sounds very familiar. Is quite a good watch in fairness.
Goes through the journey of drumming up deposits, some real, some “promised”, partnering up with the design guru of that era “Colin Chapman”, only having a couple of prototypes to tour the world, getting funds from a government, building a factory in a deprived area, but really needs about 100m to make it work .. you know the drill now
It all sounds very familiar. Is quite a good watch in fairness.
sixor8 said:
John Delorean had a long career in car manufacture, including many Pontiac models. He was also the youngest division head in General Motors history.......
LE has overseen the production of one prototype car, and has no experience.
Very true, he had engineering knowledge and skill which LE doesn’t. They do however have similar ambitions though. LE has overseen the production of one prototype car, and has no experience.
silentbrown said:
I was surprised to see the downward line on your chart, because I thought during that period, there was a great increase in the number of electrical gadgets people are using.
After referencing National Grid, they do mention a reduction in demand due to the improved efficiency of appliances.
They also seem confident that the planned increase in generation, will be sufficient to meet the new demand by electric cars, because that changeover will not be instant.
https://www.nationalgrid.com/stories/journey-to-ne...
The attempt to ban domestic gas boilers will be interesting to follow. Are you ready to pay about £18,000 for a heat pump, then discover during the winter that you are feeling cold indoors. More cost then for indoor gloves, jumpers, thermal long johns and hot water bottles.
m4tti said:
sixor8 said:
John Delorean had a long career in car manufacture, including many Pontiac models. He was also the youngest division head in General Motors history.......
LE has overseen the production of one prototype car, and has no experience.
Very true, he had engineering knowledge and skill which LE doesn’t.LE has overseen the production of one prototype car, and has no experience.
They do however have similar ambitions though.
Hopefully not too similar. Guilty and a 10 year jail sentence, which later became not guilty on appeal.
After General Motors, JD's reputation became tarnished, when his new venture sports car business ran out of money.
Often wise to steer clear of new start sports car ventures, especially those involving government money !
The historic odds are very much against success.
Edited by Jon39 on Saturday 28th August 20:41
Jon39 said:
I was surprised to see the downward line on your chart, because I thought during that period, there was a great increase in the number of electrical gadgets people are using.
Two words: LED Lighting.Gadgets aren't power-hungry. If you have a single 60W bulb that's used for just an hour a day, and replace it with a 5W LED bulb, that's saved enough to totally recharge about 4 iPhones every day.
Also, over that period, phones and their chargers have got more efficient. This does ignore things like datacenter power costs, however.
Improved appliance efficiency and better insulation also play a big part.
Edited to correct for newer iPhones with bigger batteries
Edited by silentbrown on Saturday 28th August 21:27
"The lowest carbon car is the one which doesn’t need to be replaced".
Greenpeace's policy for many years was, broadly, that the greenest car is the one which has already been built. In other words, regardless of how green a car is when in use, the damage caused by the various manufacturing processes outweighs the benefits of the car's lower emissions. Which meant that they were in effect saying that buying any old petrol-engined banger was greener than buying a new electric car.
Perhaps not surprisingly, they have now changed tack, and are heavily promoting electric only, but with caveats that the Government needs to do more to improve the build process and end-of-life recycling. No mention of hydrogen or other options at all -
https://www.greenpeace.org.uk/news/electric-cars-g...
Greenpeace's policy for many years was, broadly, that the greenest car is the one which has already been built. In other words, regardless of how green a car is when in use, the damage caused by the various manufacturing processes outweighs the benefits of the car's lower emissions. Which meant that they were in effect saying that buying any old petrol-engined banger was greener than buying a new electric car.
Perhaps not surprisingly, they have now changed tack, and are heavily promoting electric only, but with caveats that the Government needs to do more to improve the build process and end-of-life recycling. No mention of hydrogen or other options at all -
https://www.greenpeace.org.uk/news/electric-cars-g...
silentbrown said:
If that were remotely true then the UK wouldn't be in the midst of an energy crisis replete with regional blackouts in winter.Gaslit twaddle to keep the masses in check!
n.b. Your selective editing of the estimated figures presented by the RAC in order to make them fit your agenda is reprehensible.
Subject closed - before the mods do it.
Edited by Jack.Regan on Monday 30th August 12:02
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