New TVR still under wraps!
Discussion
Starting to really worry now. The factory refurb hasn't been started yet with a projected 6-8 months to complete. The Welsh Government loan of £2m (given in 2016) is now over £2.5m and is to be repaid in 2021. Part of the agreement is that other funding must be in place. Full production is not going to happen before October 2019 at the absolute earliest assuming the refurb starts today, so the company need to manufacture a lot of cars quickly in little over 15 months to generate sales and therefore an income. This is going to be a very tight schedule.
The 2018 accounts mention all this under section 2.2 'Going Concern'.
https://beta.companieshouse.gov.uk/company/0848631...
The 2018 accounts mention all this under section 2.2 'Going Concern'.
https://beta.companieshouse.gov.uk/company/0848631...
N7GTX said:
Starting to really worry now. The factory refurb hasn't been started yet with a projected 6-8 months to complete. The Welsh Government loan of £2m (given in 2016) is now over £2.5m and is to be repaid in 2021. Part of the agreement is that other funding must be in place. Full production is not going to happen before October 2019 at the absolute earliest assuming the refurb starts today, so the company need to manufacture a lot of cars quickly in little over 15 months to generate sales and therefore an income. This is going to be a very tight schedule.
The 2018 accounts mention all this under section 2.2 'Going Concern'.
https://beta.companieshouse.gov.uk/company/0848631...
You haven't allowed for the factory fit-out. Once the paint is dry on the factory shell refurb, there will be at least 6 months to fit-out and tool up the factory and then about the same for training and prototype production given that the small prototype facility hasn't happened. Even with a fair wind and everything being in place now for the factory refurb to start (which it clearly isn't), there will be no customer cars rolling out of Wales and therefore no income at all until early 2021 IMHO.The 2018 accounts mention all this under section 2.2 'Going Concern'.
https://beta.companieshouse.gov.uk/company/0848631...
IMO, TVR need to swallow their pride, forget their grand ideas of having their own factory, and just get some cars built. Use one of the already existing industry specialists (CPP, Multimatic, etc) to build an initial batch of say 50 completely hand build cars, to get the press into these cars and a handful of lead customers. If they don't do this, they have missed the boat imo........
The Surveyor said:
N7GTX said:
Starting to really worry now. The factory refurb hasn't been started yet with a projected 6-8 months to complete. The Welsh Government loan of £2m (given in 2016) is now over £2.5m and is to be repaid in 2021. Part of the agreement is that other funding must be in place. Full production is not going to happen before October 2019 at the absolute earliest assuming the refurb starts today, so the company need to manufacture a lot of cars quickly in little over 15 months to generate sales and therefore an income. This is going to be a very tight schedule.
The 2018 accounts mention all this under section 2.2 'Going Concern'.
https://beta.companieshouse.gov.uk/company/0848631...
You haven't allowed for the factory fit-out. Once the paint is dry on the factory shell refurb, there will be at least 6 months to fit-out and tool up the factory and then about the same for training and prototype production given that the small prototype facility hasn't happened. Even with a fair wind and everything being in place now for the factory refurb to start (which it clearly isn't), there will be no customer cars rolling out of Wales and therefore no income at all until early 2021 IMHO.The 2018 accounts mention all this under section 2.2 'Going Concern'.
https://beta.companieshouse.gov.uk/company/0848631...
But I'm sure everything is totally in hand. Their PR department is a well oiled machine so I'm sure the rest of the business is likewise.
Max_Torque said:
IMO, TVR need to swallow their pride, forget their grand ideas of having their own factory, and just get some cars built. Use one of the already existing industry specialists (CPP, Multimatic, etc) to build an initial batch of say 50 completely hand build cars, to get the press into these cars and a handful of lead customers. If they don't do this, they have missed the boat imo........
That makes sense!!Max_Torque said:
IMO, TVR need to swallow their pride, forget their grand ideas of having their own factory, and just get some cars built. Use one of the already existing industry specialists (CPP, Multimatic, etc) to build an initial batch of say 50 completely hand build cars, to get the press into these cars and a handful of lead customers. If they don't do this, they have missed the boat imo........
Absolutely, in fact why not just give the contract to Steyr or Valnet or any of the other contract assemblers Makes no sense setting up a factory for such low volumes
bertie said:
Max_Torque said:
IMO, TVR need to swallow their pride, forget their grand ideas of having their own factory, and just get some cars built. Use one of the already existing industry specialists (CPP, Multimatic, etc) to build an initial batch of say 50 completely hand build cars, to get the press into these cars and a handful of lead customers. If they don't do this, they have missed the boat imo........
Absolutely, in fact why not just give the contract to Steyr or Valnet or any of the other contract assemblers Makes no sense setting up a factory for such low volumes
I have "Built" a lot of low volume, prototype or "motorshow" type cars over the years, and they are all a massive PITA ime. The first car is generally the result of a massive number of late nights and weekends from a small team of people rushing round as if there asses were on fire in order to actually get it built. Corners are cut, stuff is bodged together, but generally a working (ish) car appears. Unfortunately, this is actually the easy bit! What you learn during that first build is generally they you haven;t actually got most of the parts, half of it doesn't actually fit together, and when it does, there are glaring issues of fit, finish and functionality. Not for nothing do the big OE's build a sequence of something like 5 or 6 different levels of prototypes, culminating in an off-tools, off-process build run to actually check it all works together. I have no idea what resource TVR actually have at this critical stage of trying to get from a single cobbled together prototype to something that is in any way fit for sale?
Max_Torque said:
And that "factory" shouldn't make anything! They should "assemble" the car. The days of having a massive factory where iron ore comes in one end, and 3/4 of a mile away a finished car pops out are LONG gone! TVR need to have most of the build actually done by their Teir1's. The problem is that i doubt many of the Tier1's would have wanted to invest to support TVR given the flaky credit line and overall risk of the project. ie if your are Ford Europe, you effectively buy say an entire dashboard assembly from Leoni or similar, complete with everything connected to it, the HVAC, the ICE, the DDM, the Steering column etc etc, and all you do on the line is bolt it into your bodyshell. This pushes a lot of the work (and costs) out to those Teir1's massively simplifying the OEMs build task. The problem is that TVR is way too small, and waayy too risky for most Tier1 to go anywhere near.......
I have "Built" a lot of low volume, prototype or "motorshow" type cars over the years, and they are all a massive PITA ime. The first car is generally the result of a massive number of late nights and weekends from a small team of people rushing round as if there asses were on fire in order to actually get it built. Corners are cut, stuff is bodged together, but generally a working (ish) car appears. Unfortunately, this is actually the easy bit! What you learn during that first build is generally they you haven;t actually got most of the parts, half of it doesn't actually fit together, and when it does, there are glaring issues of fit, finish and functionality. Not for nothing do the big OE's build a sequence of something like 5 or 6 different levels of prototypes, culminating in an off-tools, off-process build run to actually check it all works together. I have no idea what resource TVR actually have at this critical stage of trying to get from a single cobbled together prototype to something that is in any way fit for sale?
Amen, at last somebody that can also see it for what it is, a one off show car and a million miles from anything production I have "Built" a lot of low volume, prototype or "motorshow" type cars over the years, and they are all a massive PITA ime. The first car is generally the result of a massive number of late nights and weekends from a small team of people rushing round as if there asses were on fire in order to actually get it built. Corners are cut, stuff is bodged together, but generally a working (ish) car appears. Unfortunately, this is actually the easy bit! What you learn during that first build is generally they you haven;t actually got most of the parts, half of it doesn't actually fit together, and when it does, there are glaring issues of fit, finish and functionality. Not for nothing do the big OE's build a sequence of something like 5 or 6 different levels of prototypes, culminating in an off-tools, off-process build run to actually check it all works together. I have no idea what resource TVR actually have at this critical stage of trying to get from a single cobbled together prototype to something that is in any way fit for sale?
Max_Torque said:
bertie said:
Max_Torque said:
IMO, TVR need to swallow their pride, forget their grand ideas of having their own factory, and just get some cars built. Use one of the already existing industry specialists (CPP, Multimatic, etc) to build an initial batch of say 50 completely hand build cars, to get the press into these cars and a handful of lead customers. If they don't do this, they have missed the boat imo........
Absolutely, in fact why not just give the contract to Steyr or Valnet or any of the other contract assemblers Makes no sense setting up a factory for such low volumes
I have "Built" a lot of low volume, prototype or "motorshow" type cars over the years, and they are all a massive PITA ime. The first car is generally the result of a massive number of late nights and weekends from a small team of people rushing round as if there asses were on fire in order to actually get it built. Corners are cut, stuff is bodged together, but generally a working (ish) car appears. Unfortunately, this is actually the easy bit! What you learn during that first build is generally they you haven;t actually got most of the parts, half of it doesn't actually fit together, and when it does, there are glaring issues of fit, finish and functionality. Not for nothing do the big OE's build a sequence of something like 5 or 6 different levels of prototypes, culminating in an off-tools, off-process build run to actually check it all works together. I have no idea what resource TVR actually have at this critical stage of trying to get from a single cobbled together prototype to something that is in any way fit for sale?
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