Is it alignment or something else ????
Discussion
Hey everyone just back with a little update.
So for anyone that might not have read the op...
The car felt out of alignment from the moment I got the car.... after many alignments done and it still feeling out, I contacted my finance company who told me to take it to the best guy I knew to fix it and they would foot the bill.
I took it to a guy that I had read good things about that was a bit more expensive but got the job done right.
When I took the car to him, he told me it was way out and that the following work was required to fix it.
( please see the invoice upload for work done)
I still felt it was off when driving it and despite showing him while driving it, he told me the issues I was experiencing was due to torque steer and that the car is bang on... and he would be telling the finance company it was.
So at this point I could tell he was getting a little agitated with me so I decided to just back down and tell him if the car is bang on then it must be me.... at the end of the day he is the professional and i'm just driving the car.
After a day or two driving it a little more I still felt it was off so today I decided to take it to another garage with the hunter wheel alignment system and this is the before and after printout.... the only thing they adjusted was the toe at the front, but they were concerned about the rear total toe, and I've no idea why they didn't adjust the front camber not that I have the camber bolts...
The problem I feel when driving is that the car when I hold the steering wheel centered will drive to the right and an excessive lean when the road is crowing at the front left side.
So for anyone that might not have read the op...
The car felt out of alignment from the moment I got the car.... after many alignments done and it still feeling out, I contacted my finance company who told me to take it to the best guy I knew to fix it and they would foot the bill.
I took it to a guy that I had read good things about that was a bit more expensive but got the job done right.
When I took the car to him, he told me it was way out and that the following work was required to fix it.
( please see the invoice upload for work done)
I still felt it was off when driving it and despite showing him while driving it, he told me the issues I was experiencing was due to torque steer and that the car is bang on... and he would be telling the finance company it was.
So at this point I could tell he was getting a little agitated with me so I decided to just back down and tell him if the car is bang on then it must be me.... at the end of the day he is the professional and i'm just driving the car.
After a day or two driving it a little more I still felt it was off so today I decided to take it to another garage with the hunter wheel alignment system and this is the before and after printout.... the only thing they adjusted was the toe at the front, but they were concerned about the rear total toe, and I've no idea why they didn't adjust the front camber not that I have the camber bolts...
The problem I feel when driving is that the car when I hold the steering wheel centered will drive to the right and an excessive lean when the road is crowing at the front left side.
Edited by fendertele on Wednesday 10th January 18:53
You aren’t going to get it better than that. It must be in your head!
ETA: unless the problem is with the brakes.
P.S. OP your description of the symptoms is still poor, Cars don’t ‘lean’ unless they’re bent or have saggy springs which’d be measurable (ride height difference left to right)
ETA: unless the problem is with the brakes.
P.S. OP your description of the symptoms is still poor, Cars don’t ‘lean’ unless they’re bent or have saggy springs which’d be measurable (ride height difference left to right)
HustleRussell said:
You aren’t going to get it better than that. It must be in your head!
So it is bang on then ? and it is me being oversensitive to possible camber then ? that's cool just needed it clarified, I don't have any printouts from the original work done he never gave any... just what worked needed done and the invoice... but I know the car was feeling a lot better than when I gave it to him just not bang on...It does feel better again since the hunter guys fixed the front toe I must admit...
alright I will let it go and just put it down to me being camber sensitive then
I am constantly checking the trye pressure as that is how it feels to me but they are always bang on...cheers.
One thing I've had experience of in the past, but a good 'setup guy' should spot is that the steering rack has to be central ie same amount of trackrod into trackrod end on both sides. With the car in straight-ahead this won't necessarily show up on alignment (but the steering wheel will not be straight). It can give an 'odd' feeling, though usually (if at all) only when there is some steering input. It was more likely to happen with older cars where there is a spline on the steering column/steering wheel interface, so it could be incorrect but still have a straight steering wheel.
Fastpedeller said:
One thing I've had experience of in the past, but a good 'setup guy' should spot is that the steering rack has to be central ie same amount of trackrod into trackrod end on both sides. With the car in straight-ahead this won't necessarily show up on alignment (but the steering wheel will not be straight). It can give an 'odd' feeling, though usually (if at all) only when there is some steering input. It was more likely to happen with older cars where there is a spline on the steering column/steering wheel interface, so it could be incorrect but still have a straight steering wheel.
Yeah well I can confirm I do not feel the lean anywhere near as bad if any when the car is parked up, it is only when I begin to set off and holding the steering wheel.. had described it as something shifting about from one side to the other.But as you can see by my previous posts i'm awful at describing things... the back feels solid that always feels great it's at the front.... any decent sized bump on the road can shift whatever it is i'm feeling from the front left to the front right... and vice versa... and I've always thought it was tire pressure after the bump but I've checked it isn't that.
So then i thought maybe it is the camber possibly moving as with the camber bolts installed maybe there is some play or slipping...
another thing i have noticed is when it shifts i find myself having to hold the steering wheel every so slightly off centre to keep the car going straight.
So when i feel the issue at the front left side i tend to hold the wheel slightly more to the right to keep straight and when it shifts to the front right side i will be holding the wheel slightly more the left to keep it going straight...
Fastpedeller said:
One thing I've had experience of in the past, but a good 'setup guy' should spot is that the steering rack has to be central ie same amount of trackrod into trackrod end on both sides. With the car in straight-ahead this won't necessarily show up on alignment (but the steering wheel will not be straight). It can give an 'odd' feeling, though usually (if at all) only when there is some steering input. It was more likely to happen with older cars where there is a spline on the steering column/steering wheel interface, so it could be incorrect but still have a straight steering wheel.
one or two of the alignment guys did re centre the steering wheel taking it off and back on after the alignment.One of the guys said the alignment was correct but when I mentioned the steering wheel being off centre they said they would take the wheel of and re centred it as the car was tracking good just the wheel wasn't centred correctly.
fendertele said:
Fastpedeller said:
One thing I've had experience of in the past, but a good 'setup guy' should spot is that the steering rack has to be central ie same amount of trackrod into trackrod end on both sides. With the car in straight-ahead this won't necessarily show up on alignment (but the steering wheel will not be straight). It can give an 'odd' feeling, though usually (if at all) only when there is some steering input. It was more likely to happen with older cars where there is a spline on the steering column/steering wheel interface, so it could be incorrect but still have a straight steering wheel.
one or two of the alignment guys did re centre the steering wheel taking it off and back on after the alignment.One of the guys said the alignment was correct but when I mentioned the steering wheel being off centre they said they would take the wheel of and re centred it as the car was tracking good just the wheel wasn't centred correctly.
)fendertele said:
one or two of the alignment guys did re centre the steering wheel taking it off and back on after the alignment.
One of the guys said the alignment was correct but when I mentioned the steering wheel being off centre they said they would take the wheel of and re centred it as the car was tracking good just the wheel wasn't centred correctly.
If true that’s seriously shoddy practice. One of the guys said the alignment was correct but when I mentioned the steering wheel being off centre they said they would take the wheel of and re centred it as the car was tracking good just the wheel wasn't centred correctly.
HustleRussell said:
If true that’s seriously shoddy practice.
One of the previous guys before getting the work done it.... and the man that did the work listed above did it after i mentioned it was off.So with the taking the steering wheel off... i'm guessing that isn't the right way to do things by the reply.
When i took it into the hunter place today and centred the wheel before the alignment checks and adjustments would that have fixed any issues that removing the wheel would have caused previously or will i need to get it re centred ?
I think i'm best to just drive it as it is even if it is a minor annoyance as my lack of knowledge on these things and their willingness to cut corners knowing i won't know the difference aint getting me anywhere lol!
but i appreciate you guys giving me a little more knowledge on these things good to know anyways.
but i appreciate you guys giving me a little more knowledge on these things good to know anyways.
fendertele said:
HustleRussell said:
If true that’s seriously shoddy practice.
One of the previous guys before getting the work done it.... and the man that did the work listed above did it after i mentioned it was off.So with the taking the steering wheel off... i'm guessing that isn't the right way to do things by the reply.
When i took it into the hunter place today and centred the wheel before the alignment checks and adjustments would that have fixed any issues that removing the wheel would have caused previously or will i need to get it re centred ?
how would I know what your mechanic did! I can’t believe any mechanic with the first clue would rather remove and refit a steering wheel than correct the toe on the track rods. The wheel wants to be centred to the steering rack, the rack is designed with a straight ahead position. HustleRussell said:
how would I know what your mechanic did! I can’t believe any mechanic with the first clue would rather remove and refit a steering wheel than correct the toe on the track rods. The wheel wants to be centred to the steering rack, the rack is designed with a straight ahead position. fendertele said:
one or two of the alignment guys did re centre the steering wheel taking it off and back on after the alignment.
Did you see them do it? It seems pretty unlikely that any professional would be stupid enough to try to do that to center the wheel, is very unlikely to actually be able to correct center the wheel (since the splines are relatively coarse) and the only time it would make sense is to correct the situation where some idiot had previously refitted the wheel in the wrong position.If that's how it was after the work, it must've been s
t before, or possibly you were ripped off, as not impressed with the settings.
Front toe is much better, it's not toeing out now.
There is a difference in front camber, with the nearside being more, which will be exagerated by road camber and the rear toe will make it crab as there is difference between L and R.
I see no major issues though, so any possible problem won't be alignment.
Edited because I didn't read properly and thought this was before and after the work,
t before, or possibly you were ripped off, as not impressed with the settings.Front toe is much better, it's not toeing out now.
There is a difference in front camber, with the nearside being more, which will be exagerated by road camber and the rear toe will make it crab as there is difference between L and R.
I see no major issues though, so any possible problem won't be alignment.
Edited because I didn't read properly and thought this was before and after the work,
Edited by SlimJim16v on Wednesday 10th January 23:40
GreenV8S said:
Did you see them do it? It seems pretty unlikely that any professional would be stupid enough to try to do that to center the wheel, is very unlikely to actually be able to correct center the wheel (since the splines are relatively coarse) and the only time it would make sense is to correct the situation where some idiot had previously refitted the wheel in the wrong position.
Never seen them do it but they told me they were going to do it.. i never questioned it as i just thought if the car was aligned right according to them then putting back on the wheel straight would mean it would drive straight with the wheel centred :/ obv i know now that it's the wrong thing to do.SlimJim16v said:
If that's how it was after the work, it must've been st before, or possibly you were ripped off, as not impressed with the settings.
Front toe is much better, it's not toeing out now.
There is a difference in front camber, with the nearside being more, which will be exagerated by road camber and the rear toe will make it crab as there is difference between L and R.
I see no major issues though, so any possible problem won't be alignment.
Edited because I didn't read properly and thought this was before and after the work,
Yeah the printouts are from me taking it to somewhere with a Hunter system to verify the work the previous guy had done ( the invoice.)t before, or possibly you were ripped off, as not impressed with the settings.Front toe is much better, it's not toeing out now.
There is a difference in front camber, with the nearside being more, which will be exagerated by road camber and the rear toe will make it crab as there is difference between L and R.
I see no major issues though, so any possible problem won't be alignment.
Edited because I didn't read properly and thought this was before and after the work,
Edited by SlimJim16v on Wednesday 10th January 23:40
the first printout was showing what he had given the car back to me after having it for a day and a half and taking just over a grand for.
the second printout was the hunter alignment guys fixing the toe but unable to do anything with the back.
The part i don't get is why the rear toe is still out ? i took it the shim work that was done was to fix the toe on the rear and that once it was set it would be unadjustable...
but the toe has moved at the rear from the first printout to the second...
It isn't the worst to drive... it's just the front end lean that bothers me the most... if i drive down the same road i feel the camber more on the drivers side than i do on the passengers front side.
But i do have that camber kit installed at the front so i'm gonna get them to level it out at the front and see if that makes the difference
Edited by fendertele on Thursday 11th January 00:01
Edited by fendertele on Thursday 11th January 00:09
fendertele said:
if i drive down the same road i feel the camber more on the drivers side than i do on the passengers front side.
The explanations you're giving of what you feel make no sense. I find it hard to believe you were charged a grand for an alignment adjustment but surely this shows you that you can easily spend a lot of money changing stuff without solving whatever problem you think you have, if you can't explain what the problem is. Have any of these people who worked on the car driven it with you and agreed there is a problem, and been able to explain what problem they think there is?
GreenV8S said:
The explanations you're giving of what you feel make no sense. I find it hard to believe you were charged a grand for an alignment adjustment but surely this shows you that you can easily spend a lot of money changing stuff without solving whatever problem you think you have, if you can't explain what the problem is.
Have any of these people who worked on the car driven it with you and agreed there is a problem, and been able to explain what problem they think there is?
a grand for all the work that was needed to correct the alignment issue is posted above.Have any of these people who worked on the car driven it with you and agreed there is a problem, and been able to explain what problem they think there is?
I actually never went into any detail of my symptoms, the finance company did all the booking etc and just said customers car has been out of alignment since he got it can you have a look and see whats out and how it can be rectified.
Maybe i'm not explaining it very well.. i have a single lane road for example that leads to my house that crowns.
So i take the same road leaving and returning.. and I've noticed i feel the camber much more on the front drivers side returning than i did on the front passengers side leaving... my drivers side leans more into the cambered road than the passengers side does when it passes it on the way out,.
Forgot to mention this is only at the front i feel no difference at the rear.
Edited by fendertele on Thursday 11th January 01:40
Edited by fendertele on Thursday 11th January 01:44
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