Winter tyres vol 2

[Pica-Pica]

bolidemichael said:

That's illiegal, so yes.

When I first got my E500 estate and drove to Germany over winter, I knew nothing about tyres (really) and sourced some winter tyres, used, MO spec, from a local tyre fitter. In hindsight, they shouldn't have fitted them as it is illegal to fit RFT to a non-RFT equipped vehicle -- the logic being that a puncture or loss of pressure wouldn't be registered on the dash, which could be dangerous. I had been running around on those things (Pirelli Sottozero 3, incidentally, which were very good tyres) at huge speeds on the autobahnen/autostrada/autoroutes etc! I some point towards Spring on a regular check, I discovered that one (or two, iirc) were actually punctured, one of them running 20ishPSI.

tldr: don't run RFT with no tyre monitor as it is both illegal and potentially dangerous

Run flat tyres require a different (JJ) rim profile.

[Martyn76]

vdn said:

Ok. Advice needed. In the past, I'd always default to Nokian winters for the Alps. This year, we're in my Mrs's new car and her tyres are: 275 / 45 / 21

I note that Nokian are still good but any advice before I pull the trigger on 4 x new winter / good in snow / tyres.

This^

I currently have Goodyear Ultragrip tyres on my winter wheel but they are at the 4mm threshold and I'm looking to change them, any reason to change from Goodyear, have seem some Dunlop winters nearby on Ebay with 6.5mm on them or some brand new Continentals WinterContact further away but for not much more.

[jon-]

Pica-Pica said:

Run flat tyres require a different (JJ) rim profile.

But it's fine to put non-runflat tyres on a runflat wheel.

vdn said:

Ok. Advice needed. In the past, I'd always default to Nokian winters for the Alps. This year, we're in my Mrs's new car and her tyres are: 275 / 45 / 21

I note that Nokian are still good but any advice before I pull the trigger on 4 x new winter / good in snow / tyres.

Define good. This generation of Nokian products are struggling in the wet, and they don't have their usual lead in the snow

https://www.tyrereviews.com/Article/2021-Tyre-Revi...

Michelin Alpin 6 / Pilot Alpin 5 seems to have a considerable lead in the snow for a European winter tyre, and I think the two new TS870 tyres from Continental are some of the best all round.

[bolidemichael]

Jon, is the TS870 a newer spec than the two options being presented for my 245 45 17 MO spec requirements (in a manner of speaking)?

I can only find TS810 and TS830 via the suggestion on the Continental website and via mytyres etc.

[jon-]

bolidemichael said:

Jon, is the TS870 a newer spec than the two options being presented for my 245 45 17 MO spec requirements (in a manner of speaking)?

I can only find TS810 and TS830 via the suggestion on the Continental website and via mytyres etc.

Many generations newer. The older OE vs newer aftermarket tyre is a difficult one to call as every case is different, but in this case I'd personally want the newer technology as wet, snow and rolling resistance has come along way since the 810/830 days!

[bolidemichael]

jon- said:

bolidemichael said:

Jon, is the TS870 a newer spec than the two options being presented for my 245 45 17 MO spec requirements (in a manner of speaking)?

I can only find TS810 and TS830 via the suggestion on the Continental website and via mytyres etc.

Many generations newer. The older OE vs newer aftermarket tyre is a difficult one to call as every case is different, but in this case I'd personally want the newer technology as wet, snow and rolling resistance has come along way since the 810/830 days!

Blimey! Of course... also on your 2021 Winter Tyre test - both TS870 and Alpin 5 are 1st, but your opinion makes it clear that the Continental is the star of the show, so why the equal footing?

EDIT: According to your website (and Continental) they aren't available for 245/45/17!

Edited by bolidemichael on Monday 1st November 16:21

Edited by bolidemichael on Monday 1st November 16:29

[RicksAlfas]

bolidemichael said:

Jon, is the TS870 a newer spec than the two options being presented for my 245 45 17 MO spec requirements (in a manner of speaking)?

I can only find TS810 and TS830 via the suggestion on the Continental website and via mytyres etc.

My MB is still main dealer serviced and neither my summer or winter tyres are MO marked. They've never commented on it.
As Jon says I would rather have the new technology than something Mercedes tested when the car was new.

FWIW I've run the TS860 and they've been great.

[jon-]

bolidemichael said:

jon- said:

bolidemichael said:

Jon, is the TS870 a newer spec than the two options being presented for my 245 45 17 MO spec requirements (in a manner of speaking)?

I can only find TS810 and TS830 via the suggestion on the Continental website and via mytyres etc.

Many generations newer. The older OE vs newer aftermarket tyre is a difficult one to call as every case is different, but in this case I'd personally want the newer technology as wet, snow and rolling resistance has come along way since the 810/830 days!

Blimey! Of course... also on your 2021 Winter Tyre test - both TS870 and Alpin 5 are 1st, but your opinion makes it clear that the Continental is the star of the show, so why the equal footing?

EDIT: According to [ur]your website|https://www.tyrereviews.com/Tyre/Continental/WinterContact-TS-870-P.htm/price/[/url] (and Continental) they are available for 245/45/17!

The data is the data, and they scored equally overall, my personal preferences can't change the scoring.

I do prefer the way the Conti delivers the score as it's more balanced, but i'm sure there's people who will love the extra snow performance of the Michelin.

[Pica-Pica]

jon- said:

Pica-Pica said:

Run flat tyres require a different (JJ) rim profile.

But it's fine to put non-runflat tyres on a runflat wheel.

Indeed.

[vdn]

jon- said:

Pica-Pica said:

Run flat tyres require a different (JJ) rim profile.

But it's fine to put non-runflat tyres on a runflat wheel.

vdn said:

Ok. Advice needed. In the past, I'd always default to Nokian winters for the Alps. This year, we're in my Mrs's new car and her tyres are: 275 / 45 / 21

I note that Nokian are still good but any advice before I pull the trigger on 4 x new winter / good in snow / tyres.

Define good. This generation of Nokian products are struggling in the wet, and they don't have their usual lead in the snow

https://www.tyrereviews.com/Article/2021-Tyre-Revi...

Michelin Alpin 6 / Pilot Alpin 5 seems to have a considerable lead in the snow for a European winter tyre, and I think the two new TS870 tyres from Continental are some of the best all round.

Thank you!

[blueST]

This might be one that Jon could help answer: I've got a new car coming soon and I'm trying to decide whether to go all-season, or separate summer and winters.

Looking at the detail of the AutoBild 2021 All-season and winter tests, the snow performance figures for the all-seasons are pretty much equal to and sometimes better than the full winter tyre. This is making me question why I would even consider a full winter given they perform far worse in all other conditions.

Take Hankook as an example, all of the snow figures (traction, braking, handling) are better for their all-season than their winter. Either the tests are not comparable (different conditions maybe) or there is no point in having the winters given the compromise in other areas. If the test are not comparable how can I see what snow performance I'm loosing with an all-season compared to a winter as that's my important criteria.

[anonymous-user]

New to this thread, but here's my contribution:

I am now totally sold on Michelin CrossClimate tyres.

Fitted them to my wife's BMW X1 (FWD not 4WD) just before last winter and they have been excellent. In the dry and over the summer they have been no worse (that I have noticed) than a regular all season/summer tyre, but on the days when the roads were covered in snow and ice, they really surprised me, behaving like a proper winter tyre with loads of traction, and not once did I feel like I might get stuck, whereas other cars on regular tyres were going nowhere, or worse, slithering uncontrollably down slight hills in the village to end up in the grass verge.

The performance in mud or on wet grass has also impressed me hugely. Only just a few weeks ago I met a postman in his van coming the other way on a narrow country lane and we both had to place a wheel on the absolutely sodden and muddy grass verge to pass each other. Our car with the CrossClimate tyres just accelerated right through the mud and out the other side without an issue, but the postman simply lost traction and wheelspun the second his Vauxhall tyres went on the grass and that was him stuck until we helped push him out.

Would buy them again tomorrow without hesitation.

[Gad-Westy]

blueST said:

This might be one that Jon could help answer: I've got a new car coming soon and I'm trying to decide whether to go all-season, or separate summer and winters.

Looking at the detail of the AutoBild 2021 All-season and winter tests, the snow performance figures for the all-seasons are pretty much equal to and sometimes better than the full winter tyre. This is making me question why I would even consider a full winter given they perform far worse in all other conditions.

Take Hankook as an example, all of the snow figures (traction, braking, handling) are better for their all-season than their winter. Either the tests are not comparable (different conditions maybe) or there is no point in having the winters given the compromise in other areas. If the test are not comparable how can I see what snow performance I'm loosing with an all-season compared to a winter as that's my important criteria.

This is what pushed me towards just using CC2's on our family barge vs. having dedicated summer and winter tyres. I'm yet to test this for myself, but Jon's test (and now the Autobild test) seem to put the CC2 (and maybe other All seasons) as almost matching a good winter tyre in snow tests while offering either good or average performance across the board for less extreme conditions. Last winter I was running our BMW on 10 year old Goodyear Winter tyres with about 5mm of tread. They did a great job in snow. I have a hope that the CC2's might be even better but actually if they're even close, they'll do us just fine. Ground clearance will become a problem before traction if they behave like the goodyears.

I've mentioned it before on this thread but the thing that is currently impressing me most is just how quiet they are. It's really noticeable (or not!). Annoyingly I can now hear a suspension knock that I couldn't hear before!

[hyphen]

blueST said:

This is making me question why I would even consider a full winter given they perform far worse in all other conditions.

In European areas where full winter are mandatory, are all seasons allowed in lieu?

[jon-]

hyphen said:

blueST said:

This is making me question why I would even consider a full winter given they perform far worse in all other conditions.

In European areas where full winter are mandatory, are all seasons allowed in lieu?

I wouldn't say "far worse", something like the Bridgestone Blizzak LM005 will likely outperform most all season tyres in the wet, which is an important criteria for British winters.

Nearly all European all season tyres are 3PMSF marked, which means they're legal winter tyres in winter tyre law countries.

[jon-]

Gad-Westy said:

blueST said:

This might be one that Jon could help answer: I've got a new car coming soon and I'm trying to decide whether to go all-season, or separate summer and winters.

Looking at the detail of the AutoBild 2021 All-season and winter tests, the snow performance figures for the all-seasons are pretty much equal to and sometimes better than the full winter tyre. This is making me question why I would even consider a full winter given they perform far worse in all other conditions.

Take Hankook as an example, all of the snow figures (traction, braking, handling) are better for their all-season than their winter. Either the tests are not comparable (different conditions maybe) or there is no point in having the winters given the compromise in other areas. If the test are not comparable how can I see what snow performance I'm loosing with an all-season compared to a winter as that's my important criteria.

This is what pushed me towards just using CC2's on our family barge vs. having dedicated summer and winter tyres. I'm yet to test this for myself, but Jon's test (and now the Autobild test) seem to put the CC2 (and maybe other All seasons) as almost matching a good winter tyre in snow tests while offering either good or average performance across the board for less extreme conditions. Last winter I was running our BMW on 10 year old Goodyear Winter tyres with about 5mm of tread. They did a great job in snow. I have a hope that the CC2's might be even better but actually if they're even close, they'll do us just fine. Ground clearance will become a problem before traction if they behave like the goodyears.

I've mentioned it before on this thread but the thing that is currently impressing me most is just how quiet they are. It's really noticeable (or not!). Annoyingly I can now hear a suspension knock that I couldn't hear before!

I've actually a video on this out next week. No, I don't think there's a real reason to use a full winter tyre in most of the UK given how good most all season tyres are in the snow.

However I do still think there's a good reason to use a summer tyre in the UK given how much warm dry and wet running we get, so my "ideal" is a summer tyre in the summer and a good all season tyre as a winter tyre.

The CC2 is now excellent in the snow, and it's the best in the dry, but it's still not the best in the wet.

[Adrian E]

It has been MANY years since I've needed to consider my options for winter tyres! Short version - our Audi S5 Sportback is the get anywhere, no matter the weather, car for collecting junior from semi-rural school with mix of fast A roads and country B roads with plenty of potential for ice and standing water.

The car came to use with ridiculous 20" wheels and 275/30 tyres. I've recently started the swap from Michelin Super Sports to PS4s having noticed they are starting to chunk/tear on the inner edges as they've aged (still bags of tread!). Currently running mixed pairs of each, but need to ditch the 2nd pair of SS for PS4s fairly soon.

Happened upon a set of 18" wheels soon after buying the car, fitted with Dunlop Winter 3D tyres. They've lasted many years, but just as the tread was getting to end of life my wife managed to drive over a large box of screws and stuck 4 4" screws into 2 of those tyres! So basically they're scrap and have been sitting in the garage for a year waiting to be removed.

We live in the South East, and I think we've had maybe 1 or 2 episodes of snow in the 8 years I've had winter tyres. I don't mind having x2 sets of wheels as it protects the 20s from the worst our roads can offer for several months of the year.

I've been looking at options (the winter wheels take 245/40R18 97V XL) and the later spec Dunlops seem to get poor reviews, but I'm struggling to find stock of the higher rated tyres. I'm also having a dilemma over whether to get all seasons like the Michelin CC2, rather than a 'proper' winter tyre. Wet weather and sub 7C performance is probably more important than anything else to us.

Thoughts/ideas/views most welcome

[EthanSmale]

hyphen said:

In European areas where full winter are mandatory, are all seasons allowed in lieu?

All season is a description rather than classification. Look for 3PMSF logo (the little three peak mountain with a snowflake on it) and that will tell you if it's classed/approved as a winter tyre

[21st Century Man]

jon- said:

However I do still think there's a good reason to use a summer tyre in the UK given how much warm dry and wet running we get, so my "ideal" is a summer tyre in the summer and a good all season tyre as a winter tyre.

Yes, I may go this route too. I've currently got all seasons in my standard size on my standard wheels which I've been running all year, but I fancy a wheel and tyre upgrade for looks/performance which will be my summer set.

[bolidemichael]

21st Century Man said:

jon- said:

However I do still think there's a good reason to use a summer tyre in the UK given how much warm dry and wet running we get, so my "ideal" is a summer tyre in the summer and a good all season tyre as a winter tyre.

Yes, I may go this route too. I've currently got all seasons in my standard size on my standard wheels which I've been running all year, but I fancy a wheel and tyre upgrade for looks/performance which will be my summer set.

I'd like to, but I frequently go to Europe and over mountains etc, so it's probably best to opt for full winters.