Winter tyres vol 2
Discussion
5s Alive said:
All seasons have come on so far in recent years that they ought to be the default choice for everyday transport. We've recently put Hankook Kinergy 4S2's on our daughter's car and I'm impressed with their all round performance. Quiet too.
I'm now in the 2nd year of running those as 'winters' on my legacy as they're better in 99% of the conditions I drive in November to March. It also means I'm not in such a hurry to swap them back when it warms up and I can wait till I've got the car on the lift for an oil change or something.I still like to have the outright grip of a UHP summer but I suspect the Hankook would be adequate all year if I couldn't keep two sets.
InitialDave said:
Bonefish Blues said:
Only one way to find out 
Meanwhile I'll bimble along in the Panda 4x4 on Vred Quatrac 6s
A Panda 4x4 on good tyres is borderline cheating for winter driving though!Meanwhile I'll bimble along in the Panda 4x4 on Vred Quatrac 6s
I think BB should be made to stand at the back of the PH classroom and stay behind to write 100 lines "I shall not drive the most suitable car for the circumstances!"
havoc said:
Bonefish Blues said:
I reckon they'll prove to be cleverer than a clever thing and be able to monitor stuff like that and avoid it. Things have moved on an awfully long way since my Prius was defeated by a bit of slush
I wouldn't count on it.- ESP systems everywhere are still driven by wheel-slip sensors, and yet in snow all the usual rules are turned on their head - slip is good (to a degree - cut slip too early and you go nowhere, get a little bit and you get snow in the treads which then (through magic or something) starts to bite against the snow still on the ground). But the chips can't distinguish between snow (allow slip) and dry/wet/icy (slip is bad). Actually, if it wasn't for all these 'sport' modes sharpening throttle response, you'd want the ESP set to a looser setting.
- Regen braking is a cornerstone of EV efficiency. How many people are going to remember to go into 3 submenus to dial regen right down when it snows? And again, how is the ECU going to know it's snow so regen braking is bad?
Unless you've winter tyres, the best on-road-biased vehicle for snow is going to be an old (!) Micra, 2CV etc. - narrow tyres, low-torque, manual gearbox, few driver aids to get in the way, linear long-travel throttle, front-wheel-drive (4wd would be better, before anyone shouts - maybe a Fiat Panda 4x4).
At some point in the future visual sensors (self-driving) will join the fray, and some boffin will be able to code some sort of map to distinguish snow, ice, etc. And that will be a major breakthrough. Right now we're in that weird in-between time where the cars are occasionally just clever enough to be a problem for us.
t in the snow.And havoc is correct. The best non winter tyre car is a FWD eurobox on the narrowest tyres possible. I remember years ago living at home and my Mum got a call from her friend saying her son had been dumped at a train station about 15 miles from home and the train was stuck and terminating. Back then no-one had winter tyres, so I took my sisters Corsa B with 165 section front tyres. And it was fine. On deserted dual carriageways I practiced braking to see the locking point in the snow.
When I got to the station I asked if anyone else wanted a lift and got 3 extra passangers.
brickwall said:
Got the winters fitted this weekend. Just as the cold snap ends and the temperature rises to the teens!
Still on winters from last year - they had got down to 4mm and the plan was to use them up thinking the warmer tarmac would quickly chew them up so I could get a fresh set…..They are at 3.5mm now and I drove to Le Mans and back
vikingaero said:
havoc said:
Bonefish Blues said:
I reckon they'll prove to be cleverer than a clever thing and be able to monitor stuff like that and avoid it. Things have moved on an awfully long way since my Prius was defeated by a bit of slush
I wouldn't count on it.- ESP systems everywhere are still driven by wheel-slip sensors, and yet in snow all the usual rules are turned on their head - slip is good (to a degree - cut slip too early and you go nowhere, get a little bit and you get snow in the treads which then (through magic or something) starts to bite against the snow still on the ground). But the chips can't distinguish between snow (allow slip) and dry/wet/icy (slip is bad). Actually, if it wasn't for all these 'sport' modes sharpening throttle response, you'd want the ESP set to a looser setting.
- Regen braking is a cornerstone of EV efficiency. How many people are going to remember to go into 3 submenus to dial regen right down when it snows? And again, how is the ECU going to know it's snow so regen braking is bad?
Unless you've winter tyres, the best on-road-biased vehicle for snow is going to be an old (!) Micra, 2CV etc. - narrow tyres, low-torque, manual gearbox, few driver aids to get in the way, linear long-travel throttle, front-wheel-drive (4wd would be better, before anyone shouts - maybe a Fiat Panda 4x4).
At some point in the future visual sensors (self-driving) will join the fray, and some boffin will be able to code some sort of map to distinguish snow, ice, etc. And that will be a major breakthrough. Right now we're in that weird in-between time where the cars are occasionally just clever enough to be a problem for us.
t in the snow.And havoc is correct. The best non winter tyre car is a FWD eurobox on the narrowest tyres possible. I remember years ago living at home and my Mum got a call from her friend saying her son had been dumped at a train station about 15 miles from home and the train was stuck and terminating. Back then no-one had winter tyres, so I took my sisters Corsa B with 165 section front tyres. And it was fine. On deserted dual carriageways I practiced braking to see the locking point in the snow.
When I got to the station I asked if anyone else wanted a lift and got 3 extra passangers.
InitialDave said:
Bonefish Blues said:
Only one way to find out
Meanwhile I'll bimble along in the Panda 4x4 on Vred Quatrac 6s
A Panda 4x4 on good tyres is borderline cheating for winter driving though!Meanwhile I'll bimble along in the Panda 4x4 on Vred Quatrac 6s
https://youtu.be/B2s8v3htHZY?si=K5fdNRMzWGuIaoEg
havoc said:
I wouldn't count on it.
- ESP systems everywhere are still driven by wheel-slip sensors, and yet in snow all the usual rules are turned on their head - slip is good (to a degree - cut slip too early and you go nowhere, get a little bit and you get snow in the treads which then (through magic or something) starts to bite against the snow still on the ground). But the chips can't distinguish between snow (allow slip) and dry/wet/icy (slip is bad). Actually, if it wasn't for all these 'sport' modes sharpening throttle response, you'd want the ESP set to a looser setting.
- Regen braking is a cornerstone of EV efficiency. How many people are going to remember to go into 3 submenus to dial regen right down when it snows? And again, how is the ECU going to know it's snow so regen braking is bad?
Unless you've winter tyres, the best on-road-biased vehicle for snow is going to be an old (!) Micra, 2CV etc. - narrow tyres, low-torque, manual gearbox, few driver aids to get in the way, linear long-travel throttle, front-wheel-drive (4wd would be better, before anyone shouts - maybe a Fiat Panda 4x4).
At some point in the future visual sensors (self-driving) will join the fray, and some boffin will be able to code some sort of map to distinguish snow, ice, etc. And that will be a major breakthrough. Right now we're in that weird in-between time where the cars are occasionally just clever enough to be a problem for us.
There is at least one video of a Tesla failing to go up a 30% ice hill with the electronics off, then driving up it easily with them engaged (using single wheel braking as an e-diff). Real world, who knows, I suspect most of them don't have suitable tyres fitted anyway.- ESP systems everywhere are still driven by wheel-slip sensors, and yet in snow all the usual rules are turned on their head - slip is good (to a degree - cut slip too early and you go nowhere, get a little bit and you get snow in the treads which then (through magic or something) starts to bite against the snow still on the ground). But the chips can't distinguish between snow (allow slip) and dry/wet/icy (slip is bad). Actually, if it wasn't for all these 'sport' modes sharpening throttle response, you'd want the ESP set to a looser setting.
- Regen braking is a cornerstone of EV efficiency. How many people are going to remember to go into 3 submenus to dial regen right down when it snows? And again, how is the ECU going to know it's snow so regen braking is bad?
Unless you've winter tyres, the best on-road-biased vehicle for snow is going to be an old (!) Micra, 2CV etc. - narrow tyres, low-torque, manual gearbox, few driver aids to get in the way, linear long-travel throttle, front-wheel-drive (4wd would be better, before anyone shouts - maybe a Fiat Panda 4x4).
At some point in the future visual sensors (self-driving) will join the fray, and some boffin will be able to code some sort of map to distinguish snow, ice, etc. And that will be a major breakthrough. Right now we're in that weird in-between time where the cars are occasionally just clever enough to be a problem for us.
otolith said:
There is at least one video of a Tesla failing to go up a 30% ice hill with the electronics off, then driving up it easily with them engaged (using single wheel braking as an e-diff). Real world, who knows, I suspect most of them don't have suitable tyres fitted anyway.
Given that EVs (and powerful ones like Teslas even more-so) have ridiculously rapid rate-of-change-of-torque curves compared to an old nat-asp ICE motor, I'm not surprised....because from what I understand it's torque (and rate-of-change-of-torque in particular) that overwhelms grip.
Got the winter wheels and tyres on today. The wheels do fit but it's snug over the front calipers.
The goodyears have served me well over the last 4 winters but they are now below 3mm. They must have done close to 40K miles so that's really good mileage.
Replacement Goodyear Eagle UltraGrip GW-3 are £156 each on blackcircles, my wallet isn't going to like this.
The goodyears have served me well over the last 4 winters but they are now below 3mm. They must have done close to 40K miles so that's really good mileage.
Replacement Goodyear Eagle UltraGrip GW-3 are £156 each on blackcircles, my wallet isn't going to like this.
I finally got Cross climate 2's fitted to the qashqai on Friday, ATS euromaster were by far the best price with a Michelin deal that knocks £68 quid off & you can claim a lego Bugatti Bolide too (if you have 4 tyres fitted).
ATS did a great job fitting with no marks to the wheels & all tyres are dated 44/23, so new stock & less than a month from manufacture.
First impressions?, very quiet, stable & grippy. Driving from Somerset to Glasgow next week, so they should get a decent test.
ATS did a great job fitting with no marks to the wheels & all tyres are dated 44/23, so new stock & less than a month from manufacture.
First impressions?, very quiet, stable & grippy. Driving from Somerset to Glasgow next week, so they should get a decent test.
Edited by darreni on Sunday 26th November 17:51
E-bmw said:
What size are they?
Have you tried ASDA tyres fitted locally?
225/45 - 17Have you tried ASDA tyres fitted locally?
ASDA prices look good but limited choice of fitting centres close to me.
Looking again at blackcircles that's the run flat version of the goodyear ultragrip they list , not the one i'm looking for.
Guess I'm going to be tyre hunting next week.
Drive Blind said:
tried this in the past,, have been repeatedly let down.
Yes the problem is since you last used them when they proved superb, mainly because the foreman/supervisor/superfitter/manager (often one person) made the place a gem, unfortunately he has since moved on and some bod of less use than a chocolate teapot is now personing the desk.loskie said:
Support your local grimy commercial back street tyre place if you can. When you need them in a time of need they'll be there. The online discount places won't be.
It's like booking with Booking .com just book direct to keep the money in the service provider's pocket.
Or not. I booked a motel in the USA last month using Booking.com from the wifi at McDonalds 1/4 of a mile away. Around $125 for 2 nights.It's like booking with Booking .com just book direct to keep the money in the service provider's pocket.
I went to the motel 30 mins later. They couldn't find the booking. The walk in rate was $225! As I had the booking on my phone they managed to find it in their system and I got the cheap rate.
loskie said:
Support your local grimy commercial back street tyre place if you can. When you need them in a time of need they'll be there. The online discount places won't be.
Depends on the place. Some aren't as interested. But I agree with your sentiment.I'm lucky - my closest tyre fitter is actually a really good independent, and they do help out.
loskie said:
Support your local grimy commercial back street tyre place if you can. When you need them in a time of need they'll be there. The online discount places won't be.
I did that recently and he charged me £40 to balance 4 loose wheels that I dropped off and picked up 2ft from his balancing machine. Done inside 5 mins. Not for me, back to the chains and shopping online for the cheapest price.
Gassing Station | Suspension, Brakes & Tyres | Top of Page | What's New | My Stuff