Diagnosing an issue with an EV? Have ruled out headgasket!
Discussion
Car is a Citroen C Zero from 2013. Same as a Peugeot Ion and a Mitsubishi i Miev. Little electric runaround (more details here if interested... https://www.pistonheads.com/gassing/topic.asp?h=0&... ). Very limited to what I can do myself to diagnose the issue but know there are some techy minds on PH that might be able to suggest some solutions. And I know for many the solution to this car will be burn it with fire but I kinda like it and it does what I need it to. When it works!
I'm no mechanic but I've tried working my way through an issue which has happened today...
History:
Bought car a couple of weeks ago, it's done 90000 miles. A few days after purchase it did a few short trips and then wouldn't go into ready mode (that's the equivalent of starting your car). Easy enough fix, needed a new 054 battery and all has been fine since.
Fast forward to today and we had very heavy rain/wind last night. This may be related but keeping an open mind. Car was on charge last night outside and has a full charge. Car went to ready mode but when I drove off it felt like the rear tyres were sticking, almost as if the brakes were still applied. It went about 200 metres before juddering to a halt and the yellow battery/exclamation light came on. Car refuses to move. Take key out and restart and car starts fine UNTIL i tried to move it. Same symptoms whether in D or R. or even B. It almost immediately either judders to a halt or refuses to move, every time bringing up the same error light.
My first thoughts were that the brakes had seized in the rain. I've jacked up the back of the car and both driven wheels spin freely so think I can rule out the drum brakes? Haven't checked the fronts but did manage to easily push the car back to the house so can see no evidence of the fronts being an issue either, especially as would expect back wheels to spin under power even if fronts were stuck on.
I don't have a code reader (other than an ELM327 which don't think works with these anyway) and my next plan was to pop the back end up on bricks to see if rear wheels spin on using accelerator when not fighting friction of road. Figure that would give some indication whether it's a manual or electrical issue. And some time in the sun today in case there is water ingress somewhere?
Can see no evidence of a leak from the gearbox at rear so doubt it has lost all the fluid from there overnight. I'd expect (but could be wrong!) that if was short on lubricant would be making painful noises but still progressing?
I'm no mechanic but I've tried working my way through an issue which has happened today...
History:
Bought car a couple of weeks ago, it's done 90000 miles. A few days after purchase it did a few short trips and then wouldn't go into ready mode (that's the equivalent of starting your car). Easy enough fix, needed a new 054 battery and all has been fine since.
Fast forward to today and we had very heavy rain/wind last night. This may be related but keeping an open mind. Car was on charge last night outside and has a full charge. Car went to ready mode but when I drove off it felt like the rear tyres were sticking, almost as if the brakes were still applied. It went about 200 metres before juddering to a halt and the yellow battery/exclamation light came on. Car refuses to move. Take key out and restart and car starts fine UNTIL i tried to move it. Same symptoms whether in D or R. or even B. It almost immediately either judders to a halt or refuses to move, every time bringing up the same error light.
My first thoughts were that the brakes had seized in the rain. I've jacked up the back of the car and both driven wheels spin freely so think I can rule out the drum brakes? Haven't checked the fronts but did manage to easily push the car back to the house so can see no evidence of the fronts being an issue either, especially as would expect back wheels to spin under power even if fronts were stuck on.
I don't have a code reader (other than an ELM327 which don't think works with these anyway) and my next plan was to pop the back end up on bricks to see if rear wheels spin on using accelerator when not fighting friction of road. Figure that would give some indication whether it's a manual or electrical issue. And some time in the sun today in case there is water ingress somewhere?
Can see no evidence of a leak from the gearbox at rear so doubt it has lost all the fluid from there overnight. I'd expect (but could be wrong!) that if was short on lubricant would be making painful noises but still progressing?
Should add, the gear selector moves freely and looks (visually at least) that the linkage underneath car is moving about okay. No issues with is moving between modes on screen. Just tried again and car moved slightly but again seems to be fighting against something before cuts out. Really does feel like brakes are stuck on but again, can push car fine and handbrake lever seems to engage/disengage easily.
Small update (and I'll keep this thread updated with progress in case useful to others). Lifted front and then rear wheels afterwards (safe and securely!) and checked all wheels would rotate. They do although fronts definitely got more drag than rears. With rear wheels in air I put car in reverse, the wheels turned slowly then would stop. They'd go a little faster if I put accelerator further down. Always coming to a stop of own accord which assume was likely software related but always without the yellow warning light. Same in drive. Incidentally, press the brake pedal when stationary more than five times and the car beeps angrily at you
I cleaned the linkage a bit with a brush and sprayed on some GT85 to see if was any way/dirt trapped and on next attempt the car moved. in fact, it was fine and smooth for about a mile, tried some heavier braking and then putting foot on accelerator on a longer 60mph stretch of road and after couple of goes it shut down again, leaving me to coast to a halt, thankfully near a layby.
Took a few restarts and some juddering to get me another half mile when it got worse again. Tried moving the shift lever a little from left to right in case was a loose connector but didn't seem to help.
Is now back at home and the problem isn't solved although we've maybe made some progress. Can't see that this is a binding brake issue, no ABS lights etc. Interesting that the linkage seemed to make a difference but then again I've not had any issues with the dashboard showing wrong gear or the like. Think would flash but could it be a sensor that is intermittently recording the wrong gear?
Could a faulty ABS or other type of brake sensor be messing with the system? Could the linkage or sensors need replacing? Could I have a huge bill to pay coming up? So many questions!
I cleaned the linkage a bit with a brush and sprayed on some GT85 to see if was any way/dirt trapped and on next attempt the car moved. in fact, it was fine and smooth for about a mile, tried some heavier braking and then putting foot on accelerator on a longer 60mph stretch of road and after couple of goes it shut down again, leaving me to coast to a halt, thankfully near a layby.
Took a few restarts and some juddering to get me another half mile when it got worse again. Tried moving the shift lever a little from left to right in case was a loose connector but didn't seem to help.
Is now back at home and the problem isn't solved although we've maybe made some progress. Can't see that this is a binding brake issue, no ABS lights etc. Interesting that the linkage seemed to make a difference but then again I've not had any issues with the dashboard showing wrong gear or the like. Think would flash but could it be a sensor that is intermittently recording the wrong gear?
Could a faulty ABS or other type of brake sensor be messing with the system? Could the linkage or sensors need replacing? Could I have a huge bill to pay coming up? So many questions!
I can't help with any technical advice, but this bit jumped out of your post to me:
Bought car a couple of weeks ago, it's done 90000 miles. A few days after purchase it did a few short trips and then wouldn't go into ready mode
Did you buy privately? Do you think the previous owner was aware of these issues?
I know it is caveat emptor and all that but it boils my piss when people sell on a car with a known issue but don't mention it. I know they are not obliged to but it still irks me.
Good luck getting it sorted.
EDIT: I am assuming you are familiar with this forum? https://myimiev.com/forum/viewtopic.php?t=4225&...
Bought car a couple of weeks ago, it's done 90000 miles. A few days after purchase it did a few short trips and then wouldn't go into ready mode
Did you buy privately? Do you think the previous owner was aware of these issues?
I know it is caveat emptor and all that but it boils my piss when people sell on a car with a known issue but don't mention it. I know they are not obliged to but it still irks me.
Good luck getting it sorted.
EDIT: I am assuming you are familiar with this forum? https://myimiev.com/forum/viewtopic.php?t=4225&...
Edited by PurpleTurtle on Thursday 21st September 15:29
Great question... and who knows? Yes was private sale. Not much can do about it, gotta work on assumption that it hadn't been a problem and has given up the ghost in last few days. Or maybe it's been an intermittent issue for a long time. I'm trying to stay cool about the whole thing to be honest. May or may not last! 
Anything to do with this recall perhaps?
https://car-recalls.co.uk/recall/citroen-c-zero-en...
may also be worth posting on speakev - https://www.speakev.com/forums/general-groupe-stel...
https://car-recalls.co.uk/recall/citroen-c-zero-en...
may also be worth posting on speakev - https://www.speakev.com/forums/general-groupe-stel...
Edited by essayer on Thursday 21st September 16:37
yeager2004 said:
...garages who have the necessary tools and experience to work on electric cars seem few and far between at the moment.
Not on every street corner, but seem to be one in most areas and they have central tech support so if it's a car they haven't worked on they can get some info.The ones I've used (in Sussex) have given me a 1 or 2 year old EV as courtesy car which is a nice way to have an elongated test drive!
https://hevra.org.uk/garages.html
We have the petrol Mitsu version of this car and have looked at getting the i-miev. From my limited perspective it seems that a lot of cars being advertised are Cat N(D) cars where minimal damage has written them off because of the niche nature of the car - sometimes just a couple of body panels. And the majority seem to be ones that are electronically bricked that no-one can fix.
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