RE: Budding Designer Pens New Lotus
Discussion
Thrust and I (well Thrust mostly, I've taken more of a directorial role and trying to pick up how to use Dreamweaver on the way) have been away beavering over the weekend and its nearly done, hopefully within a week now. Then I can start applying for a "real" job (cross hairs are set, say no more :tapnose: )
Sorry to hear about the cr-x bieing ousted, if I had space, money, time...etc etc.
Sorry to hear about the cr-x bieing ousted, if I had space, money, time...etc etc.
Ok Cap'n, This link may be of interest, there's a few on there but I onlyt have personal experience of the first. Gotta scoot!
www.conceptcar.co.uk/shop/books/drawing.shtml
Mouse
www.conceptcar.co.uk/shop/books/drawing.shtml
Mouse
This could be a long post…….
1 it looks cool, 2 no we don’t think people will actually use these, its done to try and sell the design to the people who have to pay millons for it to be made(i.e. company ceo) and they are very easily led by such things.
yes they have
. The correct term is “felt tip fairy” please don not use it in vain! As for the credibility bit, well you try getting your design chosen from a wall of sketches with big wheels that look really “dynamic” and “sporty” it will never happen, I promise the one that gets chosen is the most dynamic sketch, normally the one with the big wheels.
Yes.
Yes.
Actually that bit is very hard, the boys at lotus are very good at what they do, but it is not impossible. I did it.
You are quite right, it would look nothing like what it does now, in fact it would end up not that far from an Elise today, which is exactly why designers try and push boundaries as far as they can in order to make some progress. Look at some versions of the Honda accord it fell prey to the same thing the design was kept conservative, by the time it came out it was as dull as dishwater.
See above!!
Wise words. When the project has reached production design stage. Until then you have to convince design directors and (also aesthetically challenged) accountants that your design should be made. The hard bit about being a designer, and in my view the best bit, is taking the wild sketch or model and turning it into a production reality.
Alas too true of most design students, they only work that one out when it’s too late!! I was lucky enough to have studied some engineering before studying design. The look on most engineers’ faces when I explain exactly how one of my designs works after they said it cant is priceless.
Only if you work with engineers who cant think beyond what they did last week. Just because you do not know if something can be done does not mean it cannot be done. A good engineer will tell you he does not know if it can be done but he will try and work something out. Most of them will tell you it can’t be done.
No you just end up with a Daewoo.
Come on then if you think you’re hard enough………
>> Edited by prelude4ws on Wednesday 23 October 19:46
Why is it designers always put stupid wheel on concept cars and they all have to be 22inch with rubber band tyres do they think people will actually use these in reality.
1 it looks cool, 2 no we don’t think people will actually use these, its done to try and sell the design to the people who have to pay millons for it to be made(i.e. company ceo) and they are very easily led by such things.
These stupid wheels have been knocking around Cov for yonks.
There's just no reasoning with the marker fairy/High concept boys. They just don't realise that unrealistic wheels sapp credibity from the whole design, as far as people who ACTUALLY know how a chassis works are concerned.
yes they have
. The correct term is “felt tip fairy” please don not use it in vain! As for the credibility bit, well you try getting your design chosen from a wall of sketches with big wheels that look really “dynamic” and “sporty” it will never happen, I promise the one that gets chosen is the most dynamic sketch, normally the one with the big wheels.
Isn't a Lotus supposed to be sleek, low slung and sexy.
This is a typical design student offering.
God help us if he gets a job at Lotus.
Yes.
Yes.
Actually that bit is very hard, the boys at lotus are very good at what they do, but it is not impossible. I did it.
submit that for type-approval and it would require so many alterations and changes it would look nothing like it does now. "Everyday(!!!) Lotus"... I don't think so. Who teaches these students??? The same people who plan our roads?
You are quite right, it would look nothing like what it does now, in fact it would end up not that far from an Elise today, which is exactly why designers try and push boundaries as far as they can in order to make some progress. Look at some versions of the Honda accord it fell prey to the same thing the design was kept conservative, by the time it came out it was as dull as dishwater.
This is exactly my problem with designs like this. The designer will whine "but I don't want to be constrained, I want to be free express my self in my designs", and to an exent that's fair enough.
See above!!
My view is: get the thing looking right and make it pheasable, then your beloved creation won't hacked to pieces by aesthically challenged engineers.
Wise words. When the project has reached production design stage. Until then you have to convince design directors and (also aesthetically challenged) accountants that your design should be made. The hard bit about being a designer, and in my view the best bit, is taking the wild sketch or model and turning it into a production reality.
We were actually give engineering and type aproval lectures on the course, just most people thought that they were optional(?) or grated against their artistic sensibilitues. They don't seem to realise that they were intended as another gun in the armourey, which if wieled correctly would free us from the frustraion of not see our intended designs come to fruition.
Alas too true of most design students, they only work that one out when it’s too late!! I was lucky enough to have studied some engineering before studying design. The look on most engineers’ faces when I explain exactly how one of my designs works after they said it cant is priceless.
Don't draw something that can't work, you will be disappointed.
Only if you work with engineers who cant think beyond what they did last week. Just because you do not know if something can be done does not mean it cannot be done. A good engineer will tell you he does not know if it can be done but he will try and work something out. Most of them will tell you it can’t be done.
If you can limit this kind of damage, surely the final outcome is actually the purer design?
No you just end up with a Daewoo.
..you know I love a rant, do your worst!
Come on then if you think you’re hard enough………
>> Edited by prelude4ws on Wednesday 23 October 19:46
Mr R, I cannot rant at you. I asked for your opinon, and you gave it.
Nice to see I'm not too far off the mark. I guess my attiude towards engineers is just a pesimistic one that will hopefully be changed in the fullness of time. I'd love to do your "this is how it works stunt"...ultimate satisfaction!
From what I remember of your sketches, no ranting would be necessary.
We don't see enough of you on here. Post more often old chap. I know you probably have lot of real work on and not alot of time (something I will arrange for myself in the near future), but to have a real inside view of this side of the industry is a quality addition to the community.
Mouse.
Nice to see I'm not too far off the mark. I guess my attiude towards engineers is just a pesimistic one that will hopefully be changed in the fullness of time. I'd love to do your "this is how it works stunt"...ultimate satisfaction!
From what I remember of your sketches, no ranting would be necessary.
We don't see enough of you on here. Post more often old chap. I know you probably have lot of real work on and not alot of time (something I will arrange for myself in the near future), but to have a real inside view of this side of the industry is a quality addition to the community.
Mouse.
Only if you work with engineers who cant think beyond what they did last week. Just because you do not know if something can be done does not mean it cannot be done.
hurray! yippee! If there was an icon for dancing around and clapping this would require it. There is far too bloody much of 'Ive always done it this way so there isn't another way' in the world already.....
great post from start to end
Night
danger mouse said: Mr R, I cannot rant at you. I asked for your opinon, and you gave it.
Nice to see I'm not too far off the mark. I guess my attiude towards engineers is just a pesimistic one that will hopefully be changed in the fullness of time. I'd love to do your "this is how it works stunt"...ultimate satisfaction!
From what I remember of your sketches, no ranting would be necessary.
theres one here bit of an old one, but one of the few i'm allowed to show in public!! (done at home not at work)
We don't see enough of you on here. Post more often old chap. I know you probably have lot of real work on and not alot of time (something I will arrange for myself in the near future), but to have a real inside view of this side of the industry is a quality addition to the community.
Mouse.
would try and post more often but you guessed it some what busy!!! but i try and help out where i can!
>> Edited by prelude4ws on Thursday 24th October 20:09
>> Edited by prelude4ws on Thursday 24th October 20:12
yeah like i can work out how to put html in to a post
>> Edited by prelude4ws on Thursday 24th October 20:14
woo hoo done it!!
>> Edited by prelude4ws on Thursday 24th October 20:16
prelude4ws said:
danger mouse said: Mr R, I cannot rant at you. I asked for your opinon, and you gave it.
Nice to see I'm not too far off the mark. I guess my attiude towards engineers is just a pesimistic one that will hopefully be changed in the fullness of time. I'd love to do your "this is how it works stunt"...ultimate satisfaction!
From what I remember of your sketches, no ranting would be necessary.
theres one here bit of an old one, but one of the few i'm allowed to show in public!! (done at home not at work)
We don't see enough of you on here. Post more often old chap. I know you probably have lot of real work on and not alot of time (something I will arrange for myself in the near future), but to have a real inside view of this side of the industry is a quality addition to the community.
Mouse.
would try and post more often but you guessed it some what busy!!! but i try and help out where i can!
>> Edited by prelude4ws on Thursday 24th October 20:09
>> Edited by prelude4ws on Thursday 24th October 20:12
yeah like i can work out how to put html in to a post
>> Edited by prelude4ws on Thursday 24th October 20:14
woo hoo done it!!
>> Edited by prelude4ws on Thursday 24th October 20:16
That's pretty cool, but (dare I say it, of course I do, I'm not chickin) you clearly were a fan of the more "muscular" middle skool AM's.
Very shiny though!
I did nice quick one yesterday, but I don't know if it'll tread on some toes. I'll find out over the weekend and if I can post it I will.
found-a-frienD Mouse
...it can be damned tricky getting those pictures up sometimes can't it!? grrrrrr!
This looks like a cross between the Elise, Exige, Vuxhaul,and Opel, {which Lotus makes }looking like the Elise but swapping body parts. The refined redrawing of the Esprit Turbo by Stevens used the same lines as the original G-Body so where was the creativity in that? The 340R was truly an original Lotus design and not built for the masses!
>> Edited by SwedishSurgeon on Tuesday 29th October 00:43
>> Edited by SwedishSurgeon on Tuesday 29th October 00:43
Call me a cop-out, but I think it's great that people produce such cutting-edge design in the first place. As for the Esprit, a great shape makes classic design, change it at your peril. Guys, take this concept as nothing more than that, and don't worry too much about small details. I remember talking to some boltonboys about automotive style once, and they said the reason they didn't like the DB7 was because 'the rear light clusters weren't cast in one colour, and that makes it look old'. If designers worried about such details at the sketch/mock up stage, we wouldn't have cars like that, they'd come out looking like airfix kits. I reckon, with some development (and expansion), this thing could be the start of a new model range for Lotus - what about a compact V10/V12 supercar in the Bugatti EB110 vein to give Lambo a run for their money?
I don't think that any one was saying wild concepts shouldn't be modelled at all. It's probably more that deep down we'ed like to these fantasies become reality, and when they are clearly so disparate from what must be the production reality, we can already feel the disapointment.
I actually think the design is good. The lines are sharp and unmistakabley lotus. My beef was with the silly wheels, but thats because I'm an engineery design purist and am far more impressed by design that can actually work.
My other problem with it is that an almost identical design (concept and styling) was proposed by a friend of mine on that same course in our graduating year (two years ago). I'm in no any way saying that there was plaigurism involved, simply that I've seen it all before.
jaDed Mouse
I actually think the design is good. The lines are sharp and unmistakabley lotus. My beef was with the silly wheels, but thats because I'm an engineery design purist and am far more impressed by design that can actually work.
My other problem with it is that an almost identical design (concept and styling) was proposed by a friend of mine on that same course in our graduating year (two years ago). I'm in no any way saying that there was plaigurism involved, simply that I've seen it all before.
jaDed Mouse
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