JD Classics, what have they been up to?
Discussion
havoc said:
Look at housing - extensions, kitchen fitting, etc. - prices have jumped by an easy 50% in the last 7 years.
What do you expect, 7 years ago, the construction industry was on the back of the worst recession in the industry for over 20 years thanks to banking industry..... with labour rates dropping 25-30% between 2008-2011.That was a huge hit on many people's income, all your seeing in 7 years is the clawing back of that 25-30% plus the effect of a reduction in numbers of skilled people, because many left to do other things in 2008-2010 and as very firms have training scheme's anymore there is a lack of brickies/chippies/sparkies and plumbers etc and your small local building firms have to up their rates to keep people from going after better rates with big contractors who need people to meet deadlines on big jobs so up the rates. That has a knock on effect for everyone.
Raw material costs have also gone up dramatically in construction in the past 5 years as well.
anonymous said:
[redacted]
What you need to recognise is that every single one of us is exposed to debt whether direct, or indirect. There’s the manager who has no frivolous debt but gets laid off because the company he worked for had too much debt and downsized their wage bill to pay their interest bill. He now needs to sell his classic car to bridge the gap.
There’s the chap who’s equity/bond portfolio falls in value so his retirement income falls so he sells his classic car to bridge the gap.
The chap who has fewer customers into his shop because of a slow down in spending as people switch to handling their debt obligations so needs to sell his classic car to bridge the gap.
Few are fully immune. The super wealthy? In many cases the rump of their wealth is their share of a business. The value of that falls and their wealth finishes rapidly. And if they’ve been living a lifestyle comensuarate with their stock wealth rather than cash wealth? Well there’s an even larger drop.
People protect their homes ahead of other investments or toys. Boats and cars are the first items defenestrated when money gains enough value.
And when you speak of people who have owned for a long time all that means is that they have more equity in that asset. It doesn’t preclude them from selling up eventually.
Like you, I’ve no idea when it will happen. We know that it will. Maybe it won’t even be a burst but a slow decline as people lose interest and the next generation lack the purchasing power to procure the assets of the deceased. But there’s enough happening at the macro economic level to suggest that anyone who thinks it might burst during the next couple of years can’t be booked as a loony.
aeropilot said:
havoc said:
Look at housing - extensions, kitchen fitting, etc. - prices have jumped by an easy 50% in the last 7 years.
What do you expect, 7 years ago, the construction industry was on the back of the worst recession in the industry for over 20 years thanks to banking industry..... with labour rates dropping 25-30% between 2008-2011.That was a huge hit on many people's income, all your seeing in 7 years is the clawing back of that 25-30% plus the effect of a reduction in numbers of skilled people, because many left to do other things in 2008-2010 and as very firms have training scheme's anymore there is a lack of brickies/chippies/sparkies and plumbers etc and your small local building firms have to up their rates to keep people from going after better rates with big contractors who need people to meet deadlines on big jobs so up the rates. That has a knock on effect for everyone.
Raw material costs have also gone up dramatically in construction in the past 5 years as well.
Add to that of course a resto will cost more than it did 5 years ago. rents, rates, wages all rise periodically along with Paint materials etc.
As for the bubble ? who knows, a RUF CTR Yellowbird has just sold in an auction in the States for over a million dollars some body was happy to pay that.
V8 FOU said:
I have always said that it is almost impossible to make your headline rate on a long term job. So, if I normally charge £60ph for work, I would be very lucky to see that on a 500 hour job. More like £25-30ph. So, the increases in restoration costs are, I belive, due to businesses getting near to their headline rate for the work because of the increase in vaue of the vehicle. And hurrah for that. Ask anyone in this line of work and they will agree.
That would be a good explanation of why restoration costs seem to inflate so quickly in a rapidly increasing market. aeropilot said:
havoc said:
Look at housing - extensions, kitchen fitting, etc. - prices have jumped by an easy 50% in the last 7 years.
What do you expect, 7 years ago, the construction industry was on the back of the worst recession in the industry for over 20 years thanks to banking industry..... with labour rates dropping 25-30% between 2008-2011.That was a huge hit on many people's income, all your seeing in 7 years is the clawing back of that 25-30%...
Raw material costs have also gone up dramatically in construction in the past 5 years as well.
(And a LOT of people lost their jobs 10 years ago...builders can't claim to be singled-out...)
As for materials - I didn't mean to suggest that builders were alone in spotting the supply/demand imbalance. I worked for the parent company of a very large national builders' merchant for 5 years...I know what goes on...
Donkey your pure eloquent phraseology is bang on.
That's it in a nutshell. Those financiers that pumped all the money in to alternative assets but in a bear market everyone runs for the old school assets like gold.
Bank and lenders retreat and potential for full contagion begins.
I love the testarossa but I can aldo see there are over 50 for sale when looking back to 2011 when I nearly bought one, there was only 12-15 for sale at any given time.
That shows we are long past market forces signals for buying in. The same is true of the Speciale. Lots for sale and have been for ages but no real buyers. My guess is the banks have already decreased lending.
That's it in a nutshell. Those financiers that pumped all the money in to alternative assets but in a bear market everyone runs for the old school assets like gold.
Bank and lenders retreat and potential for full contagion begins.
I love the testarossa but I can aldo see there are over 50 for sale when looking back to 2011 when I nearly bought one, there was only 12-15 for sale at any given time.
That shows we are long past market forces signals for buying in. The same is true of the Speciale. Lots for sale and have been for ages but no real buyers. My guess is the banks have already decreased lending.
DonkeyApple said:
Custard or you would have answered ‘ Bergoglio is but others may well be not’.
DonkeyApple said:
What you need to recognise is that every single one of us is exposed to debt whether direct, or indirect.
There’s the manager who has no frivolous debt but gets laid off because the company he worked for had too much debt and downsized their wage bill to pay their interest bill. He now needs to sell his classic car to bridge the gap.
There’s the chap who’s equity/bond portfolio falls in value so his retirement income falls so he sells his classic car to bridge the gap.
The chap who has fewer customers into his shop because of a slow down in spending as people switch to handling their debt obligations so needs to sell his classic car to bridge the gap.
Few are fully immune. The super wealthy? In many cases the rump of their wealth is their share of a business. The value of that falls and their wealth finishes rapidly. And if they’ve been living a lifestyle comensuarate with their stock wealth rather than cash wealth? Well there’s an even larger drop.
People protect their homes ahead of other investments or toys. Boats and cars are the first items defenestrated when money gains enough value.
And when you speak of people who have owned for a long time all that means is that they have more equity in that asset. It doesn’t preclude them from selling up eventually.
Like you, I’ve no idea when it will happen. We know that it will. Maybe it won’t even be a burst but a slow decline as people lose interest and the next generation lack the purchasing power to procure the assets of the deceased. But there’s enough happening at the macro economic level to suggest that anyone who thinks it might burst during the next couple of years can’t be booked as a loony.
Outstanding post, fantasticThere’s the manager who has no frivolous debt but gets laid off because the company he worked for had too much debt and downsized their wage bill to pay their interest bill. He now needs to sell his classic car to bridge the gap.
There’s the chap who’s equity/bond portfolio falls in value so his retirement income falls so he sells his classic car to bridge the gap.
The chap who has fewer customers into his shop because of a slow down in spending as people switch to handling their debt obligations so needs to sell his classic car to bridge the gap.
Few are fully immune. The super wealthy? In many cases the rump of their wealth is their share of a business. The value of that falls and their wealth finishes rapidly. And if they’ve been living a lifestyle comensuarate with their stock wealth rather than cash wealth? Well there’s an even larger drop.
People protect their homes ahead of other investments or toys. Boats and cars are the first items defenestrated when money gains enough value.
And when you speak of people who have owned for a long time all that means is that they have more equity in that asset. It doesn’t preclude them from selling up eventually.
Like you, I’ve no idea when it will happen. We know that it will. Maybe it won’t even be a burst but a slow decline as people lose interest and the next generation lack the purchasing power to procure the assets of the deceased. But there’s enough happening at the macro economic level to suggest that anyone who thinks it might burst during the next couple of years can’t be booked as a loony.
tight fart said:
Fingers crossed,
Management buy out I hear!
Management buy out I hear!
A couple of days ago I said:
I'm beginning to suspect M. Gales' move was made with eyes open.
He has (in July) only become a Director of JD Classics Ltd, not of JD Classics International, JD Classics Engineering, JD Classics Historic Racing, JD Classics Restoration, JD Heritage Racing, JD Classics Racing or newco JD Classics. All of which, incidentally, appear to still have Hood as a Director.
Of greater significance is that in September, Gales became Director of a new, seemingly unrelated company. With him are three other Directors, two of which are Directors of a US corporation that "Seeks to provide creative capital solutions and generate attractive risk-adjusted returns for our clients. We manage various strategies across the capital structure that include syndicated leveraged loans and high yield bonds to privately negotiated senior secured debt and mezzanine investments, asset-based leasing and private equity."
It's beginning to sound to me like a prepack after all.
He has (in July) only become a Director of JD Classics Ltd, not of JD Classics International, JD Classics Engineering, JD Classics Historic Racing, JD Classics Restoration, JD Heritage Racing, JD Classics Racing or newco JD Classics. All of which, incidentally, appear to still have Hood as a Director.
Of greater significance is that in September, Gales became Director of a new, seemingly unrelated company. With him are three other Directors, two of which are Directors of a US corporation that "Seeks to provide creative capital solutions and generate attractive risk-adjusted returns for our clients. We manage various strategies across the capital structure that include syndicated leveraged loans and high yield bonds to privately negotiated senior secured debt and mezzanine investments, asset-based leasing and private equity."
It's beginning to sound to me like a prepack after all.
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