First restoration: Where to start?!?

[x type]

http://www.quattroownersclub.com/

if you haven't joined the club yet do it I did many years ago when I had a ur quattro

very helpful club

[Decky_Q]

I was really lucky to find the bodywork guy I did. I had a shell sitting for about 8 months at a guy who clearly wasnt that interested and the guy who ended up doing it was there one day, liked the look of it and had a free week in his shop so I arranged to get it delivered to his shop.

When I got there he was fabricating a vw bus roof from scratch on a roller with the extreme curves around the edges and the sheer size of it I was pretty amazed, so I st myself thinking I hadn't agreed any prices yet and he seems too good for my budget. Ended up only being £1100 for loads of shell repairs, 2 front inner and outer wings(which I supplied) and he created new floor sections with all the indents and folds etc exactly like the original. He then offered to do the paint as he'd done all the prep and sanding so got him to do that too.

I wouldn't dream of going anywhere else now.

[politeperson]

If you want to do it, then just do it.
I had a misspent youth in the motor trade after completing a full time 2 year City and Guilds in motor vehicle restoration and I have completed gazillions of cars over the years and I still do it.
You have been given some good advice so far by those on this thread.
Don't forget however that you now have Youtube to learn everything in life.
One of the best guys out there for this type of body repair is Chris Birdsong.
He does really good work with basic tools, he doesn't mess around either. He is very good at filming what he does as well and he really takes the time to carefully explain what he is doing and why.
I would recommend watching his panel replacement of General Mayhem where you can actually see how to split spot welds, use the Mig and and Tig, planishing hammers and dollies and how he makes strategic decisions for replacement of parst over replacement of whole panels. He also forms some single curved panels, and flanges and shows you how to create metal panels from templates.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XlnDeFLqhhg
It goes without saying that he is very experienced in this type of work. For more modern cars, where panels are available, this is what I would be aiming for.
Even more difficult fabrication is accomplished by Trev from Trevs Blog. He can form double curved panels using a variety of complicated techniques that take years to master. His level of ability is very rare indeed. I am in awe of his skill and patience, he is certainly better at it than me.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=p27gAKjqSzs
Fitzees Fabrications and Cold War Motors are also top class channels.

[Mr Tidy]

Well I can't add any advice, but I wish you all the best OP.

And I hope you share some updates on here - maybe a Readers' Car thread candidate?

[intergraleevo]

Just tried uploading a few images to reply to you all but still won't let me! Is it 14 days since first topic you can't post links for or 14 days since having an account?

Anyway followed some advice above, got underneath the sill covers and I'm pretty pleased actually.

Cheers all

[droopsnoot]

How are you uploading photos? I use the "Upload an image" link above the reply box rather than linking to an external site, mainly because of the Photobucket debacle from a few years ago which ruined a lot of build threads on many different sites.

Good to hear you have something behind the sill covers.

[intergraleevo]

Apologies for going quiet, family wedding last weekend.

Finally able to upload some images! At last!



Both wings have peeled, more concerned about the visible A post rot



General view of underside, note where I took the underseal off many years ago (mistake?)



Rear subframes crusty but saveable?



Following advice above on the thread, got the covers off the sills. Clearly hadn't been taken off in very long time if ever. Generally very good though pretty pleased!



One 50p crusty spot on them



There you go. Did someone say there's a place to put restoration threads, if so please point me in the right place, I can't see it.

Cheers all

[Yertis]

Os that Titian Red? Lovely colour.

[intergraleevo]

Yertis said:

Os that Titian Red? Lovely colour.

I think so yes, thanks, I'll have to look the code up again. Any opinions from the photos of best way ahead?

[Missy Charm]

intergraleevo said:

I think so yes, thanks, I'll have to look the code up again. Any opinions from the photos of best way ahead?

Honestly? That doesn't look half bad from the photos. If it was mine, it'd be fresh fluids and filters, new cambelt and tyres and then off for an MOT to see what it fails on! Your car looks solid where it matters and a bit of rust up top never hurt anybody.

At least drive the thing and see if you like it before committing to taking everything to pieces.

[B'stard Child]

austin said:

MIG welding isn't that tricky to get the hang of. Make sure the metal is REALLY clean before you start and practice.

I learnt to weld at college - MIG, TIG, ARC and Gas - bought a MIG to tackle a couple of engine bay brackets after I did an engine upgrade on my track car. Nephew bought a Mini (at least the Audi will have half decent thickness steel not bacofoil) we replaced sills, floor pans, boot floor/back seat base, front inner wings, outer wings, rear valance, door skins, front scuttle and finally the whole roof……. (He wanted slick top and the original car had a glass pop up sun roof)

Pick up some damaged panels from a breaker that are same thickness steel and cut out sections and weld them back in grind back the welds for practice

Get a decent size bottle of gas - don’t use disposables and don’t use gasless wire it’s awful

Don’t cut out any more than you can repair at a time

Don’t leave the grinding back to build up

Buy 3 angle grinders - set one up with a slitting disc, one a grinding disc and one with a flap disc. (Swap the grinding disc with a zip wheel when you need to clean areas)

PS - I never want to see another Mini again……

[droopsnoot]

Looks good. Mine has gone in the same place on the bottom of the A pillars.

[B'stard Child]

intergraleevo said:

Did someone say there's a place to put restoration threads, if so please point me in the right place, I can't see it.

Cheers all

In here or Readers Cars would be fine

For sub frames and suspension parts find a shot blasters local to you - they take forever to strip and prepare the surfaces and a shot blaster gives a much better surface prep for paint - I got all my suspension arms and subframes hot zinc galv’d - as my local blasters do that for some customers and it’s ace

[austin]

B'stard Child said:

austin said:

MIG welding isn't that tricky to get the hang of. Make sure the metal is REALLY clean before you start and practice.

Get a decent size bottle of gas - don’t use disposables and don’t use gasless wire it’s awful

Don’t cut out any more than you can repair at a time

Don’t leave the grinding back to build up

Buy 3 angle grinders - set one up with a slitting disc, one a grinding disc and one with a flap disc. (Swap the grinding disc with a zip wheel when you need to clean areas)

PS - I never want to see another Mini again……

Excellent advice, wish I'd read this before I started.

If anyone offers you a Morris Minor with "minor welding needed" just don't. I know a few that have done one, but very few that have done more than that!

[Hol]

droopsnoot said:

Hol said:

However, I am currently £15k into that rebuild, although that work is top notch and the car will be worth more than if I just rippled a few panels whilst welding on a wheel arch or skim filling over everything.

But, others will likely have more skill than me.

I wouldn't say I've got more skill than anyone - but I've got more spare time than spare cash. I've seen the sort of work that some people do and I'd be forever concerned about what hidden nightmares I've got back after parting with the cash, I don't think I'd ever be able to pick somewhere that I'd trust. I'm already dreading finding out what it'll cost to have my current project painted as I've proved on the last one that painting is not my best skill, if either of the body shops I've asked ever respond. You also have an advantage in terms of available panels over the OP and myself, either for my Audi or for the Vauxhall I'm working on at the moment, presuming that's your actual car rather than an example.

Apologies. I missed this reply. Yes it’s mine.

My welding comment was because I learnt to weld with enough skill to keep my own cars on the road. Functional but not pretty. After attempting to cut and butt (weld) a wheel arch with my aged Clarke 100e mig set, I decided to call in the professionals.

Edited by Hol on Wednesday 22 November 16:31

[intergraleevo]

Still getting some great replies and advice.

So, reading back through and taking on some of that advice, it's just about progressing, don't bite off too much at once - I'm going to tackle this rear subframe. I figured it looks pretty crusty regardless, so it's going to have to come off. And although I'm under no illusion that it will all be seized up I'm pretty comfortable with the nut and bolt stuff (and still putting off the body! :S )



Plus, there's a patch of rot up under it on the boot floor, and I'm willing to bet more up under the heat shielding. So it's coming off regardless.



Good news though. Remembering this came with pile of parts including a rear diff, had a root around and...



Rear subframe with wishbones! If I hunt further IIRC, in one of the boxes are some Track Control Arms as well, just hoping they're rears. Photo of same subframe flipped over below.



Still needs a little work, but I'm thinking I get this sorted. Remove the old one, think I'll keep the original diff, see if I can get some new seals from somewhere, and new ball joints ends.
Best way ahead for this subframe? Just a wire wheel, degrease, primer and a few coats of decent metal paint in a rattle can? Any good products? Powder coating an option I guess.

Have I... have I started?!? Thanks guys!

[droopsnoot]

intergraleevo said:

Best way ahead for this subframe? Just a wire wheel, degrease, primer and a few coats of decent metal paint in a rattle can? Any good products? Powder coating an option I guess.

Mine doesn't look quite that bad, but while I was working on the back end I figured it might be an idea to see if I could undo the rear subframe mounting bolts, and thankfully all the ones I tried came undone quite easily.

Personally, I would (will) get the subframe blasted, then find a decent hard-wearing satin black paint. I've used Lechler Technogrip on some stuff, but I think there's a similar paint available in aerosol form in Screwfix for less money. I wouldn't powder coat suspension stuff - as soon as it chips you won't be able to touch it up, and there's a chance that moisture will get behind it and stay there. Also when you consider pushing interference-fit bushes into place, or the serrated bit where the ball joint moves to adjust camber, I personally think it's a bad idea. Looks lovely when it's new, though.

I had to do that section of the boot floor as well, there are quite a few parts there where it's multiple skins spot welded together and once the underseal cracks it just rusts between them. You might get away with it, hard to tell until you've started to strip it back.

[Yertis]

My own preference is blast, hot zinc spray then black epoxy. You can mask the bearing surfaces but it’ll need a little bit of tidying up. That’s what I’ll be doing anyway.

[B'stard Child]

Yertis said:

My own preference is blast, hot zinc spray then black epoxy. You can mask the bearing surfaces but it’ll need a little bit of tidying up. That’s what I’ll be doing anyway.

^ WHS - find a local blasting place that can do it - shop around and you'll find one that's a good price - If you try and use Zip wheels on a grinder you'll be picking out steel shards from whatever PPE and clothes you are wearing for weeks and zip wheels just "polish" the surface so paint/epoxy adhesion isn't as good as it needs to be.

I had some suspension parts shot blasted and hot zinc galv and then powder coated them - they take a lot of stone chipping on airfield circuits - the powder coating is chipped to hell but there is no rust after 10 years

[Decky_Q]

As you have time on your hands, each time you look at it, spray the crusty bolts and threads with wd40 type penetrating oil, and wire brush all the threads to make the chances of a sheared bolt as low as possible. Broken captive fixings are a real time consuming pita.