JD Classics, what have they been up to?
Discussion
Wacky Racer said:
lowdrag said:
I think I posted this elsewhere. The friend who restored my E-type a few years back had someone come to him with this coupé for "minor refreshment".
Looks good, doesn't it? The client had thought it a sound buy and it certainly looked it. But this is what was found once the specialist got working on it
What seemed a bargain cost nearly another £100,000.
Should have been scrapped or sold for parts. Looks good, doesn't it? The client had thought it a sound buy and it certainly looked it. But this is what was found once the specialist got working on it
What seemed a bargain cost nearly another £100,000.
£100,000? lol!
CKY said:
This is it, shamefully it seems the number of firms out there doing substandard work seemingly trading on good-will or reputation earned 20+ years ago for business is huge. I came across the below in a bodyshop, a E9 CSL that was purchased from a 'legendary' specialist of the Munich brand, the poor sod paid £180k for this car as it was 'recently restored to showroom standard' and was a significant car from the period.
On getting the new owner's favoured bodyshop to get the doors to hang correctly, something amiss was spotted with the door hinges and A-pillar. On taking these areas back to bare metal, a multitude of sins were discovered, and it was decided to strip the car back to bare metal. All I can say is the quality (lack of!) of the 'metal work' done on this car is shameful, i've seen better panel beating in the paddock at a bloody banger racing meeting! Just goes to show, you can never trust even the 'marque specialists', i'd heard the business has been going downhill since being sold a number of years ago, but this was eye opening....
Rear wing abomination
A pillar sins hidden - no wonder the doors were sagging!
As the 'restored to showroom standard' CSL currently sits...
The courts should be treating this type of work as the fraud which is plainly is. If you took someone for upwards of £100K in a financial transaction I imagine you'd be looking at some jail time.On getting the new owner's favoured bodyshop to get the doors to hang correctly, something amiss was spotted with the door hinges and A-pillar. On taking these areas back to bare metal, a multitude of sins were discovered, and it was decided to strip the car back to bare metal. All I can say is the quality (lack of!) of the 'metal work' done on this car is shameful, i've seen better panel beating in the paddock at a bloody banger racing meeting! Just goes to show, you can never trust even the 'marque specialists', i'd heard the business has been going downhill since being sold a number of years ago, but this was eye opening....
Rear wing abomination
A pillar sins hidden - no wonder the doors were sagging!
As the 'restored to showroom standard' CSL currently sits...
9xxNick said:
CKY said:
This is it, shamefully it seems the number of firms out there doing substandard work seemingly trading on good-will or reputation earned 20+ years ago for business is huge. I came across the below in a bodyshop, a E9 CSL that was purchased from a 'legendary' specialist of the Munich brand, the poor sod paid £180k for this car as it was 'recently restored to showroom standard' and was a significant car from the period.
On getting the new owner's favoured bodyshop to get the doors to hang correctly, something amiss was spotted with the door hinges and A-pillar. On taking these areas back to bare metal, a multitude of sins were discovered, and it was decided to strip the car back to bare metal. All I can say is the quality (lack of!) of the 'metal work' done on this car is shameful, i've seen better panel beating in the paddock at a bloody banger racing meeting! Just goes to show, you can never trust even the 'marque specialists', i'd heard the business has been going downhill since being sold a number of years ago, but this was eye opening....
Rear wing abomination
A pillar sins hidden - no wonder the doors were sagging!
As the 'restored to showroom standard' CSL currently sits...
The courts should be treating this type of work as the fraud which is plainly is. If you took someone for upwards of £100K in a financial transaction I imagine you'd be looking at some jail time.On getting the new owner's favoured bodyshop to get the doors to hang correctly, something amiss was spotted with the door hinges and A-pillar. On taking these areas back to bare metal, a multitude of sins were discovered, and it was decided to strip the car back to bare metal. All I can say is the quality (lack of!) of the 'metal work' done on this car is shameful, i've seen better panel beating in the paddock at a bloody banger racing meeting! Just goes to show, you can never trust even the 'marque specialists', i'd heard the business has been going downhill since being sold a number of years ago, but this was eye opening....
Rear wing abomination
A pillar sins hidden - no wonder the doors were sagging!
As the 'restored to showroom standard' CSL currently sits...
CKY said:
My sentiments exactly... Unfortunately for the dealer in question, the customer they took for a ride is exceedingly wealthy (has a McLaren F1 and Porsche 917K among his 300+ car collection), so they definitely won't win the court case and may be lucky to continue trading depending on their settlement amount and legal fees.
Is the owner initiating a court case against the dealer who 'restored it to showroom standard'? If so, good for them.RichB said:
CKY said:
My sentiments exactly... Unfortunately for the dealer in question, the customer they took for a ride is exceedingly wealthy (has a McLaren F1 and Porsche 917K among his 300+ car collection), so they definitely won't win the court case and may be lucky to continue trading depending on their settlement amount and legal fees.
Is the owner initiating a court case against the dealer who 'restored it to showroom standard'? If so, good for them.It'll end up on the judiciary website once it reaches a judge for directions hearings etc and any attempt to avoid identifying the parties, if unsuccessful, will feature. That assumes it's done through the high court, which I suspect is likely given the scale of claim likely to be involved.
Was this the white one that was claimed to have been nearly completed by a company that went out of business?
Was this the white one that was claimed to have been nearly completed by a company that went out of business?
Adrian E said:
It'll end up on the judiciary website once it reaches a judge for directions hearings etc and any attempt to avoid identifying the parties, if unsuccessful, will feature. That assumes it's done through the high court, which I suspect is likely given the scale of claim likely to be involved.
Was this the white one that was claimed to have been nearly completed by a company that went out of business?
That's good to know, thanks for posting. I believe the car was Taiga Green when delivered to the bodyshop, I was told it was advertised as a car which had been completely restored to 'better than new' condition!Was this the white one that was claimed to have been nearly completed by a company that went out of business?
soxboy said:
T70RPM said:
CKY said:
so they definitely won't win the court case
....brave assumption....!!! I have been an expert witness at court and have been truly stunned by who wins !
soxboy said:
T70RPM said:
CKY said:
so they definitely won't win the court case
....brave assumption....!!! I have been an expert witness at court and have been truly stunned by who wins !
This is the proverbial genuine quesion...
if a dealer's Ts and Cs include:
"Any statements made by us, whether verbally or in writing, concerning the originality, (race) history, provenance, condition or other attributes of a used vehicle, in particular, of classic, collector's or sports cars, are statements of judgment opinion or belief. We undertake no obligation or duty, whether in contract or in tort, in respect of the accuracy or completeness of any such statement of judgment opinion or belief. While we will make such statements genuinely and they reflect our honestly held judgment opinion or believe, we will not be held responsible for such statements and we do not make or give any contractual promise, undertaking, obligation, guarantee, warranty, or representation of fact, or undertake any duty of care in relation to the accuracy or completeness of such statements unless expressly warranted in writing by us. We always recommends that Customers carry out appropriate investigations and inspections personally or through an independent expert before purchasing"
how much protection does that offer in the situation above?
if a dealer's Ts and Cs include:
"Any statements made by us, whether verbally or in writing, concerning the originality, (race) history, provenance, condition or other attributes of a used vehicle, in particular, of classic, collector's or sports cars, are statements of judgment opinion or belief. We undertake no obligation or duty, whether in contract or in tort, in respect of the accuracy or completeness of any such statement of judgment opinion or belief. While we will make such statements genuinely and they reflect our honestly held judgment opinion or believe, we will not be held responsible for such statements and we do not make or give any contractual promise, undertaking, obligation, guarantee, warranty, or representation of fact, or undertake any duty of care in relation to the accuracy or completeness of such statements unless expressly warranted in writing by us. We always recommends that Customers carry out appropriate investigations and inspections personally or through an independent expert before purchasing"
how much protection does that offer in the situation above?
That will be part of the Court's process - to assess the relative merits of the cases of both parties. Whether that T&C is enforceable/backed up in contract law would I'm sure be a feature. Just because it's on a website, doesn't mean they can rely on it if it flies in the face of legal principal/precedent
MuscleSedan said:
E9's have always been notorious for A pillar and sill issues, crucial areas to the models integrity. Paying £180k for one with sagging doors, then afterwards taking it elsewhere to be looked at may not be wise.
To be honest I think the chap is just exceedingly wealthy with a low boredom threshold, apparently so far in 2023 alone he's bought 84 cars of which this CSL was one of them. He's no classic car expert by all means so probably wouldn't have known, but i'm glad someone bought it that's wealthy enough to seek recompense from the supplying specialist. Had I bought the car and found all this out, there's a chance i'd have been stuck with some bodged E9 that i'd have to live with; I definitely wouldn't be able to buy a £180k car, then be able to pay for a bare metal restoration and a court case on top.MuscleSedan said:
E9's have always been notorious for A pillar and sill issues, crucial areas to the models integrity. Paying £180k for one with sagging doors, then afterwards taking it elsewhere to be looked at may not be wise.
He didn't end up with this one by mistake?https://collectingcars.com/for-sale/1972-bmw-e9-3-...
CKY said:
MuscleSedan said:
E9's have always been notorious for A pillar and sill issues, crucial areas to the models integrity. Paying £180k for one with sagging doors, then afterwards taking it elsewhere to be looked at may not be wise.
To be honest I think the chap is just exceedingly wealthy with a low boredom threshold, apparently so far in 2023 alone he's bought 84 cars of which this CSL was one of them. He's no classic car expert by all means so probably wouldn't have known, but i'm glad someone bought it that's wealthy enough to seek recompense from the supplying specialist. Had I bought the car and found all this out, there's a chance i'd have been stuck with some bodged E9 that i'd have to live with; I definitely wouldn't be able to buy a £180k car, then be able to pay for a bare metal restoration and a court case on top.Gassing Station | Classic Cars and Yesterday's Heroes | Top of Page | What's New | My Stuff