JD Classics, what have they been up to?

[Burwood]

DevonPaul said:

Burwood said:

I merely posed the question, who in their right mind would do business with these cowboys.

You would be surprised - I understand Karl Verdi (star of reality TV) is still trading.

Paul

He may well be limping along. Big difference between a lube/oil change and buying a 5M classic where integrity is everything. But what do I know. I'm sure JD could phoenix themselves into something but dreaming if they think it would be the annual £20M profit utopia it once was (built on a scam).

Those in the know are saying they are finished and lets face it, we haven't even begun to see the true scale of the skullduggery, yet! As has been said early, if Mr Tukes £9M claim was it then they'd pay/gag and move forward. It suggests to me that the potential liability is vast. It wouldn't surprise me if total claims exceed 250M. We will see

[aeropilot]

DevonPaul said:

Burwood said:

I merely posed the question, who in their right mind would do business with these cowboys.

You would be surprised - I understand Karl Verdi (star of reality TV) is still trading.

Paul

Oops.....mentioning that name on here will likely see this thread closed down then PDQ

[garypotter]

Re the classic car bubble, watching car prices over the last couple of years I feel they have peaked but i feel many cars are way overpriced but sellers can always come down. I do wonder how many cars sell near their asking price!

Yes there are some very good modern and classic car dealers that do a great job but the industry has been tarnished by this affair.

[DonkeyApple]

The real knock on to this is that Mr Tuke was not alone in selling a business for a vast fortune and deciding to build an instant classic car collection. There are hundreds of Mr Tukes out there. There have been hundreds of ‘brokers’ commissioned to build these collections. These Mr Tukes will all be questioning how their collections were built up. Do we really think there is only one Mr Hood out there?

[Legacywr]

DonkeyApple said:

The real knock on to this is that Mr Tuke was not alone in selling a business for a vast fortune and deciding to build an instant classic car collection. There are hundreds of Mr Tukes out there. There have been hundreds of ‘brokers’ commissioned to build these collections. These Mr Tukes will all be questioning how their collections were built up. Do we really think there is only one Mr Hood out there?

There's one on here, who owns a car, that is known to have been re-shelled!

[lowdrag]

People hypothesize about the market peaking all the time, but I feel this car may well be a bell-weather:-

https://online.handh.co.uk/m/lot-details/index/cat...

E-type prices have been off a bit for while, but will this JD swallow make a summer? I'll be interested to see if the results are way down or not. and one only has to look at the carandclassic web site to see the kites being flown by some dealers, and cars that have stuck for a long time unsold.

Edited by lowdrag on Thursday 13th September 12:35

[irocfan]

Legacywr said:

There's one on here, who owns a car, that is known to have been re-shelled!

pardon my ignorance here - but wasn't re-shelling not really big issue on many classics, certainly WRT race cars?

[Legacywr]

irocfan said:

Legacywr said:

There's one on here, who owns a car, that is known to have been re-shelled!

pardon my ignorance here - but wasn't re-shelling not really big issue on many classics, certainly WRT race cars?

Sorry, should there be an 'a' in there somewhere?

[3.8 MOD]

Lowdrag,
I wonder if H and H have hired Derek Hood as their new Jaguar appraisal consultant!
Compare that with their estimate on the Healey:
https://online.handh.co.uk/m/lot-details/index/cat...

[grumpy52]

The true historic and unique cars will always demand a premium . What will happen now is that the "investment" crowd will slink away and all the over hyped and over priced cars will sink back to the natural levels they should be at .
Many of those in the real trade of classic cars were very wary of JD Classics in the past . In the early days the standard of the cars that they were churning out left a lot to be desired but lots of people with little knowledge and lots of money bought them at outrageous prices .
They then got very big very quickly which rang alarm bells with those that knew the company of old .
The size of the can of worms that is being discovered is going to surprise many .
Chasing where the money is will be fun to watch .

[ClaphamGT3]

I seem to recall that they secured a 'market defining price' for Alan Clark's - very ropey - R-Type Continental

[RRG]

It is possible that this could be the 'Lehman' moment in the classic car industry.

Any other lender with exposure to classic car dealers is likely to take a more cautious view going forward and likely to look for more security or reduce exposure.

This will result in more vehicle stock on (an already slow) market, probably leading to further weakness in prices. A material correction is possible if this all becomes a vicious circle.

Classic prices generally peaked in 2014/15. There has already been a modest correction in DB Astons, Daytonas, 2.7 RSs and suchlike.

Note carefully that sell-through rates at recent high profile auctions have been very poor (RM Battersea only 50%!).

Or maybe this will all be a storm in a teacup. Will be very interesting to see...

[David87]

I live in Maldon and didn’t realise any of this stuff about JD Classics until I read of its demise here on PH! How very dodgy. All I knew is they have a lovely showroom with nice cars in it, plus a fleet of vans with exceedingly valuable number plates that I see around and about all the time locally.

[soxboy]

grumpy52 said:

The true historic and unique cars will always demand a premium . What will happen now is that the "investment" crowd will slink away and all the over hyped and over priced cars will sink back to the natural levels they should be at.

I think this is perhaps the most likely outcome.

Whilst some prices were viewed as silly, they weren't across the board like previous peaks (remember Ferrari Mondials quoted at six figure sums). The classic car world is a very broad church with everything from Beetles and Allegros right up to Ferrari GTOs. Although the headline grabbing side of the market may be hit, I'm not sure how it is going to filter down to the hobby owners, those who have bought with savings, the parts guys, the refurbishers, the classic car shows.

I do of course hope it shuts up the Quentin Willsons of this world with all these stupid '30 sure fire investment cars you must buy now'.

[havoc]

I suspect everything will drop as the effects filter down the chain. It'll be gradual though, not a crash, and I doubt things will drop massively - don't expect your dream affordable classic to drop by 50%.

For those who've bought their dream car at an inflated price, I have sympathy. For everyone else who's either a long-term owner or an aspiring owner previously viewing all these increasing prices with horror, this will just be a 'settling down' of things.

Hopefully the only major losers will be the investment brigade...after all, they're the ones who've trespassed on our hallowed turf without asking!

soxboy said:

I do of course hope it shuts up the Quentin Willsons of this world with all these stupid '30 sure fire investment cars you must buy now'.

100% agree

[anonymous-user]

soxboy said:

I do of course hope it shuts up the Quentin Willsons of this world with all these stupid '30 sure fire investment cars you must buy now'.

Slightly OT but have you seen this?

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QYjkmok84gw

[lowdrag]

Tom Hartley and his son have been around for over forty years now. Tom Hartley deals in moderns, Tom Hartley Junior has been dealing in classics as well as moderns.

[anonymous-user]

lowdrag said:

Tom Hartley and his son have been around for over forty years now. Tom Hartley deals in moderns, Tom Hartley Junior has been dealing in classics as well as moderns.

Yeah was more the WarrantyWise on a Veyron and Quintin Wilson that made me chuckle

Toms lake still makes me laugh

[urquattroGus]

havoc said:

I suspect everything will drop as the effects filter down the chain. It'll be gradual though, not a crash, and I doubt things will drop massively - don't expect your dream affordable classic to drop by 50%.

For those who've bought their dream car at an inflated price, I have sympathy. For everyone else who's either a long-term owner or an aspiring owner previously viewing all these increasing prices with horror, this will just be a 'settling down' of things.

Hopefully the only major losers will be the investment brigade...after all, they're the ones who've trespassed on our hallowed turf without asking!

soxboy said:

I do of course hope it shuts up the Quentin Willsons of this world with all these stupid '30 sure fire investment cars you must buy now'.

100% agree

+1 Quentin can only keep talking things up for so long!

[DarrenKMC]

lowdrag said:

Tom Hartley and his son have been around for over forty years now. Tom Hartley deals in moderns, Tom Hartley Junior has been dealing in classics as well as moderns.

Tom's 45 years as the market leader is some achievement for a chap in his mid-fifties!