Ultra rare mk 1 Escort at upcoming auction

[mfmman]

Mark A S said:

I rallied a pukka Gartrac G3 back in the early 90's, with at first a fairly crap 2.0 BD, then later a Very good 2.2 BDX. On Tarmac, i would say it was a bit faster than a Mk 2, on the loose though, not as "friendly" it did not have the wonderful balance a decent Gp 4 Mk 2 had.

I remember this car with a couple of subsequent owners, I think either atmo cosworth or Millington engined by then

Here's a Youtube clip for you https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gUC_65cZ61s&gl...

[s m]

Lefty said:

s m said:

Lefty said:

Article in Evo this month about the RS1700T, I’d never even heard of it before!

Really?

Then again, EVO are more into Porsche and BMW if that’s your main reading

Nice to see some different cars in there though

Yeah! I've seen some rwd gartrac mk3's but never heard of this one.

I buy retroford too but's nearly all modifed mk2's, hence my interest

Hmm, I suspect Mr Lefty hasn’t been paying attention to his Retroford magazines lately

There was a big article on the RS1700T about 3 months ago




About 8 pages all Re the history of the car

[s m]

wal 45 said:

The Venetian Red car used to come to our local RSOC meets in the late 80's and early 90's, got a few photos of it somewhere. Think it is still relatively local and owned by the same guy (RS1800 Registrar).

We also used to have another guy that turned up who had 2 of them, both concours road cars albeit one with the Gp 4 arches etc.

How we all wish we bought one...although I never remember them being up for sale often or cheap even then.

I remember my friend’s 1800 was £5k in the mid 80s, roughly twice the price of a similar nick RS2000. You’re right though, there were never loads for sale, not surprising with only just over 100 produced. I still think however, if I could go back in time, would the value now be worth keeping it in standard nick for the intervening 35 years? I think I’d probably have had as much fun in a Pinto one and being able to have a very nice engine built up. Plus the 2000s still aren’t cheap with 100k paid for the very best
No doubt if I was much richer and did proper rallying a full on BDA would be equally fun,.....but as a standard road car I never really feel like I missed too much owning the RS2000. 95% of the fun for 50% of the cost as standard although I recognise they are the top of the tree for Mk2s

[200Plus Club]

I started with a basic tweaked mk2 escort as my first car then in the late 80s wanted to buy an RS2000, having saved up and organised to view one at a local back street dealers I took a test drive. It was quick, and the dealer "had other people interested". I'd noticed the vin plate /pop rivets looked funny, and I couldn't match the details I had at the time for genuine rs2000 shells with the car I was viewing. (Someone had told me which chassis and engine nos etc etc). Nothing seemed to match up.
Reluctantly I left it and it sold the next day. 2 yrs later the dealer got shut down and i think went to prison for ringing stolen cars on a reasonable scale. They'd always had sporty mk2s on the forecourt, so even back then it was difficult to be sure, and without the power of the internet etc identifying cars was a bit word of mouth.
I'd still love an RS1800 as the memories of seeing them / hearing them on rally stages is strong. My friend had a mk2 1600 sport that was played with and our formative years were spent at speed in Derbyshire thrashing that car to death :-)

[Mark A S]

mfmman said:

I remember this car with a couple of subsequent owners, I think either atmo cosworth or Millington engined by then

Here's a Youtube clip for you https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gUC_65cZ61s&gl...

Thanks, yes that's when Andrew had it, spoken to him in the past about that car etc. He had a 2.3 XE in it i think, bit knackered by the looks of that Vid
I have some video of me in the G3 on an old VHS tape somewhere from a Rally at HMS Daedalus.

This is my favourite in car of myself back in 2013, its quite amusing at the end
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Y5oRnHSnLk4

[Mark A S]

s m said:

I remember my friend’s 1800 was £5k in the mid 80s, roughly twice the price of a similar nick RS2000. You’re right though, there were never loads for sale, not surprising with only just over 100 produced. I still think however, if I could go back in time, would the value now be worth keeping it in standard nick for the intervening 35 years? I think I’d probably have had as much fun in a Pinto one and being able to have a very nice engine built up. Plus the 2000s still aren’t cheap with 100k paid for the very best
No doubt if I was much richer and did proper rallying a full on BDA would be equally fun,.....but as a standard road car I never really feel like I missed too much owning the RS2000. 95% of the fun for 50% of the cost as standard although I recognise they are the top of the tree for Mk2s

Makes me wonder of how many of all the RS Escorts remained bog standard back in the day, i bet most were modded to some degree, it was very much the thing to do money permitting especially with the numerous choice of go faster "stuff" supplied by Fords and many other outlets, just another reason there so popular.

It makes me wonder though if the owners of these great little cars back in the day that kept them standard, little use etc had foresight into there values, a bit like people who bought dinky cars and never removed them from there boxes,,,,,,,,,,, i mean,,,,,,, where's the fun in that

[s m]

Mark A S said:

s m said:

I remember my friend’s 1800 was £5k in the mid 80s, roughly twice the price of a similar nick RS2000. You’re right though, there were never loads for sale, not surprising with only just over 100 produced. I still think however, if I could go back in time, would the value now be worth keeping it in standard nick for the intervening 35 years? I think I’d probably have had as much fun in a Pinto one and being able to have a very nice engine built up. Plus the 2000s still aren’t cheap with 100k paid for the very best
No doubt if I was much richer and did proper rallying a full on BDA would be equally fun,.....but as a standard road car I never really feel like I missed too much owning the RS2000. 95% of the fun for 50% of the cost as standard although I recognise they are the top of the tree for Mk2s

Makes me wonder of how many of all the RS Escorts remained bog standard back in the day, i bet most were modded to some degree, it was very much the thing to do money permitting especially with the numerous choice of go faster "stuff" supplied by Fords and many other outlets, just another reason there so popular.

It makes me wonder though if the owners of these great little cars back in the day that kept them standard, little use etc had foresight into there values, a bit like people who bought dinky cars and never removed them from there boxes,,,,,,,,,,, i mean,,,,,,, where's the fun in that

I know my friend’s car from Mike Youngs was showroom standard still. Unfortunately for him, the buy in price ( double that of an RS2000 ) was such that he didn’t really have a load of spare cash to do anything with the engine and unlock its potential. Plus I think he was worried if it went pear-shaped it would be hassle/expense to have it rebuilt/fixed and may devalue the car and his money in it. Even then it was a fairly rare car and we were all only late teens/early twenties. It was harder to get info on stuff with no internet, down to reading mags, speaking to people, parts places etc. One thing rebuilding your Pinto or Xflow with your mates ( especially when you can get another engine from the scrapyard cheapish ....... but would you take on a much more valuable BDA yourself or try and find a specialist to do it from the local motor club
Certainly for RS2000s, Mexicos, Sports, GTs, Harriers etc the engines and parts were a fair wodge cheaper and more common so we had no qualms modding them.
I guess if we’d all been older and richer at the time we would have had more expensive cars or done a lot more tuning etc

Here’s some period RS1800 bumph

[Zener]

Crap gearbox ratio's that gap between 1st and 2nd Ford used better on the single rail early GT box just saying however that 3.54 final drive (same as the early Essex 3.0 Capri and RS 2.0 IIRC ) certainly makes it pull some speed in the gears though

[aeropilot]

Mark A S said:

Makes me wonder of how many of all the RS Escorts remained bog standard back in the day, i bet most were modded to some degree, it was very much the thing to do money permitting especially with the numerous choice of go faster "stuff" supplied by Fords and many other outlets, just another reason there so popular.

It makes me wonder though if the owners of these great little cars back in the day that kept them standard, little use etc had foresight into there values, a bit like people who bought dinky cars and never removed them from there boxes,,,,,,,,,,, i mean,,,,,,, where's the fun in that

And yet..........I remember, a mate and me went 'halves' on a Mexico, which we bought to flip......this would have been 1986/7 and it was a late custom pack Mex, so vinyl roof, wood dash, RS recliners etc.,etc. and lovely Olympic Blue with the RS Steels. All original, original paint, a few bubbles here and there on the front wings and cills etc., 60k miles from new....blah,blah. I can remember driving it around for a week before it went into my mate's mates bodyshop, and I can remember thinking.....this is just lovely to drive around in, just as the factory intended............and also, why are we going to ruin it by putting new wings on and painting it.....but back then, that's what sold them, very few people were into 'survivor' cars, unlike today. That though was my 'lightbulb' moment about mods vs. standard.........except the follwoing year, I bought my Sunbeam-Lotus and of course set about modding it

[aeropilot]

Love the service costs, 36k service £31

[Zener]

aeropilot said:

Mark A S said:

Makes me wonder of how many of all the RS Escorts remained bog standard back in the day, i bet most were modded to some degree, it was very much the thing to do money permitting especially with the numerous choice of go faster "stuff" supplied by Fords and many other outlets, just another reason there so popular.

It makes me wonder though if the owners of these great little cars back in the day that kept them standard, little use etc had foresight into there values, a bit like people who bought dinky cars and never removed them from there boxes,,,,,,,,,,, i mean,,,,,,, where's the fun in that

And yet..........I remember, a mate and me went 'halves' on a Mexico, which we bought to flip......this would have been 1986/7 and it was a late custom pack Mex, so vinyl roof, wood dash, RS recliners etc.,etc. and lovely Olympic Blue with the RS Steels. All original, original paint, a few bubbles here and there on the front wings and cills etc., 60k miles from new....blah,blah. I can remember driving it around for a week before it went into my mate's mates bodyshop, and I can remember thinking.....this is just lovely to drive around in, just as the factory intended............and also, why are we going to ruin it by putting new wings on and painting it.....but back then, that's what sold them, very few people were into 'survivor' cars, unlike today. That though was my 'lightbulb' moment about mods vs. standard.........except the follwoing year, I bought my Sunbeam-Lotus and of course set about modding it

Trouble is with UK weather that patina or those odd rust bubbles on Ford's from this era turn into something more serious quite quickly in warmer climate like the states you can get away with this for many years

[mk2glenn]

wal 45 said:

The Venetian Red car used to come to our local RSOC meets in the late 80's and early 90's, got a few photos of it somewhere. Think it is still relatively local and owned by the same guy (RS1800 Registrar).

We also used to have another guy that turned up who had 2 of them, both concours road cars albeit one with the Gp 4 arches etc.

How we all wish we bought one...although I never remember them being up for sale often or cheap even then.

ETA: I don't think the Gp 4 lookalike the guy had was the one in the photos above as it had no arches on it originally and it had the Ford Motorsport stripes. He put it back to road car colours.

Edited by wal 45 on Wednesday 7th October 14:18

Dave Robinson owned the red car but passed away last year. I doubt anyone knew half as much about 1800s as he did.

[mfmman]

Mark A S said:

mfmman said:

I remember this car with a couple of subsequent owners, I think either atmo cosworth or Millington engined by then

Here's a Youtube clip for you https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gUC_65cZ61s&gl...

Thanks, yes that's when Andrew had it, spoken to him in the past about that car etc. He had a 2.3 XE in it i think, bit knackered by the looks of that Vid
I have some video of me in the G3 on an old VHS tape somewhere from a Rally at HMS Daedalus.

A guy called Pete Mellor had it in between he was from the midlands IIRC, I think it was atmo cosworth then, may have been straight from you as it would have been 92/93ish

[Mark A S]

mfmman said:

A guy called Pete Mellor had it in between he was from the midlands IIRC, I think it was atmo cosworth then, may have been straight from you as it would have been 92/93ish

I sold it to Charles Eveson [ we did a fair bit of horse trading between us back then ] and the money went towards a new Motorsport Escort Cossy, supplied by Charles. I suspect Pete Mellor bought it from him.

I swapped my modded Sapphire Cossy 2wd for the G3, the chap [who is fairly local to me] who i did the deal with, i saw him at Hendy's a couple of years ago, he still has my old Sapphire, still with 12k miles on it!

[aeropilot]

Mark A S said:

mfmman said:

A guy called Pete Mellor had it in between he was from the midlands IIRC, I think it was atmo cosworth then, may have been straight from you as it would have been 92/93ish

I sold it to Charles Eveson [ we did a fair bit of horse trading between us back then ] and the money went towards a new Motorsport Escort Cossy, supplied by Charles.

I need to find my photos from the '85 RAC, as I should have a few photo's of Charles in LVX, even though he was running way ahead of us lot down at the tail end of the entry list as that was the final WRC event for the Escort and the Sunbeam, and Charles used to do a few of the stage rallies that some of us MCAC guys did in the early 80's.

[RsToy]

aeropilot said:

Wow......when did you own it?
I sold it in Feb 1984.

Bugger that it got stolen, as that means all 3 of the RS2's I owned are now no more, with 2 of them ending being stolen

[Lefty]

s m said:

Mark A S said:

s m said:

I remember my friend’s 1800 was £5k in the mid 80s, roughly twice the price of a similar nick RS2000. You’re right though, there were never loads for sale, not surprising with only just over 100 produced. I still think however, if I could go back in time, would the value now be worth keeping it in standard nick for the intervening 35 years? I think I’d probably have had as much fun in a Pinto one and being able to have a very nice engine built up. Plus the 2000s still aren’t cheap with 100k paid for the very best
No doubt if I was much richer and did proper rallying a full on BDA would be equally fun,.....but as a standard road car I never really feel like I missed too much owning the RS2000. 95% of the fun for 50% of the cost as standard although I recognise they are the top of the tree for Mk2s

Makes me wonder of how many of all the RS Escorts remained bog standard back in the day, i bet most were modded to some degree, it was very much the thing to do money permitting especially with the numerous choice of go faster "stuff" supplied by Fords and many other outlets, just another reason there so popular.

It makes me wonder though if the owners of these great little cars back in the day that kept them standard, little use etc had foresight into there values, a bit like people who bought dinky cars and never removed them from there boxes,,,,,,,,,,, i mean,,,,,,, where's the fun in that

I know my friend’s car from Mike Youngs was showroom standard still. Unfortunately for him, the buy in price ( double that of an RS2000 ) was such that he didn’t really have a load of spare cash to do anything with the engine and unlock its potential. Plus I think he was worried if it went pear-shaped it would be hassle/expense to have it rebuilt/fixed and may devalue the car and his money in it. Even then it was a fairly rare car and we were all only late teens/early twenties. It was harder to get info on stuff with no internet, down to reading mags, speaking to people, parts places etc. One thing rebuilding your Pinto or Xflow with your mates ( especially when you can get another engine from the scrapyard cheapish ....... but would you take on a much more valuable BDA yourself or try and find a specialist to do it from the local motor club
Certainly for RS2000s, Mexicos, Sports, GTs, Harriers etc the engines and parts were a fair wodge cheaper and more common so we had no qualms modding them.
I guess if we’d all been older and richer at the time we would have had more expensive cars or done a lot more tuning etc

Here’s some period RS1800 bumph

Fantastic, this thread just keeps giving.

Even now, 115bhp in 900kg will feel spritely.

Anyone got a mk2 price list from late 70's?,

Edited by Lefty on Thursday 8th October 13:25

[Lefty]

Mk1 here

[Mark A S]

Ha, wonderful stuff, appears reasonably priced, although when i started work in 1976 i was on,,,,,,,,,,, wait for it,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,, 50p an hour!

[aeropilot]

Lefty said:

Mk1 here

Where's my Tardis to go back to Sept 1974.....might just get an order in time to get a Vista Orange RS1600 with Custom pack, radio, LSD, Bilsteins, Mag Minilites and Cibies before the last one was built in Nov 74.