Austin Healey works rep

[Russwhitehouse]

Gents
I am seriously considering a works replica Healey with a view to getting into historic rallying. My question is one of value. Given it's not the genuine works article and therefore a standard car that's been modified to works spec, does this de value the car on both counts? In other words it isn't worth what a standard unmolested car would be worth, or a genuine works car, but is considerably cheaper than carrying out the mods myself. It's still a lot of money to spend and I don't want to be stuck with a car that I can't sell a few years down the line if I should decide to. I would be grateful of a few second opinions on the desirability of works reps from the Healey fraternity.

[john2443]

I would say that a works rep is worth a bit more than a standard car but much less than a real works car.

[spitsfire]

Very dependent on how the upgrades have been done and who's done them. Some of the special parts for the 100M and 100S are very rare and consequently very expensive- if you can get hold of them at all.....

Any details on the car spec/history, OP?

[Shezbo]

The standard car is worth more, rally rep especially if they are used in events are in as much less demand and therefore worth less.

However any original 50'-60's prepared car is then worth more than a standard car and as has quoted a works car is in another league.

With decent Healeys now north of 35k - you may consider how expensive this maybe?

Sounds great though!

[Poison Tom 96]

If you can, get a restoration project. Then the rep conversion will not devalue that specific car.

HTH

[Russwhitehouse]

spitsfire said:

Very dependent on how the upgrades have been done and who's done them. Some of the special parts for the 100M and 100S are very rare and consequently very expensive- if you can get hold of them at all.....

Any details on the car spec/history, OP?

There are several on car and classic I have been in contact over. In particular a 100/6 with a specialist in Scarborough who Healey people will no doubt be familiar with. Also a 1965 car advertised as being garaged in Coventry that I have spoken to the owner about and also the Healey specialists where it is currently stored. Opinions very welcome.

[spitsfire]

Essentially, you're paying the 'going rate' for a similar condition original car, less a bit for the lack of originality, but with money added back on for the desirable extras/modifications on the car; things like alloy panels, works-style hard top etc add proper money, non-standard seats etc don't.

TBH (and I know it's not much use for guidance) these cars are worth what you're willing to pay for them - it's very much a niche product within a niche market, and the price is dictated by demand. Late autumn is a good time to be looking though

[benjj]

Russ, the big Healey is a great choice for what you're looking for (judging by your other threads).

The market for rally prepped cars, whether works cars, reps or something else is tricky. There are no rules really save the fact that a true works car will always we worth quite a lot more than anything else.

Other things to consider:

What kind of rallying will you be doing? The Healey is generally 'prepped' in one of two ways. There is some overlap but you really want to get a feel for what the car has been put together for. It will boil down to two directions really :-

1) Tour Auto type spec.

This will be in more race trim than rally trim. Events like the Tour Auto (previously Tour de France) combine road regularities, closed stages, race stages (often on famous full racing circuits), hillclimbs/sprints and more. A car prepped for this will really be a road registered racer - very hard suspension, as light weight as possible, often a heavily tuned engine (within the regs of course), mega brakes and so on.

Here is an example of the kind of thing:



http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=f81fm4oZVXI

2) HERO/HRCR type spec.

This will be less aggressive with the aim being to strike a nice balance between a fast road setup but relatively compliant when getting to grips with a 50 mile regularity section. I'd fully expect it to have a great deal more suspension travel and damping, probably a stock(ish) engine and exhaust, possibly some weight saving but nothing too extreme and so forth.

Here is an example of the kind of thing:



Also have you sat in one yet? Silly question I know but I was looking at one earlier in the year at the Silverstone auction at Race Retro. It had the hardtop and it was possibly the most claustrophobic car I've ever been in. I'm massive (6'3'' and wide) but it is worth considering.

Finally here to give you some inspiration is the Pat Moss and Timo Makinen works Healeys from the '62 Monte Historique - superb footage.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=x7RzjGW8hxc

[Russwhitehouse]

Thanks for the as ever valuable advice benji. Item one on the agenda is what I have in mind, I am in fact thinking in terms of doing my license and having a go at stage rallying but am having a little difficulty in finding info on events with novices/first timers in mind. A car that could be used for both types of event, with a bit of adapting needed depending on the event, is what I'm after. PM incoming

[benjj]

Good man, I'm a great fan of a very lairy car and the race/rally prepped Healeys are simply superb competition cars.

Noisy, the stench of fuel, fast as hell, nowhere to stow your kit, leaks everywhere - absolute bliss

[crbox]

I've road rallied a works rep for over 16 years in over 60 events, including several Hillclimb championships. Above is an/my all new 248 bhp, 140 mph machine built in 2011, with no specification spared.

No doubt about it, these are epic machines and a credible alternative to a 250 SWB Ferrari, a Cobra or maybe even a low drag E Type. They sound, drive fantastic and even handle reasonably well, but need considerable driver input as they have nothing like the precision of a 911. Instead, they look fantastic from all angles. I think they are the ultimate historic rally car and I imagine I'm not alone. However, the more developed and focused they are, the more exciting they are on events, but maybe less user friendly in traffic. But then a CanAm McLaren is pretty crap in traffic.

Best of all you can have 85% of the works experience for half the cost. Here's how.

Buy the best restored Colorado red or Healey blue 3000, you can afford. Buy a replica hardtop for £1500 or less on ebay. Fit an 18 gallon works fuel tank for a further £600. Fit an under floor side exit exhaust for £300, up rated front coils and up rated damper valves for the same again. Finally a sump guard for £120 and then sell off everything you threw out and buy some rally seats, a Mota Lita steering wheel and a Brantz tripmeter. Note these are all straightforward DIY jobs, so no need for expensive specialist labour bills. If there's any budget left, spend £900 on a set of straight cut Tulip gears.
For that you'll have the look, the sound and maybe also the screaming gearbox to complete the experience. When funds allow, up the power, maybe a sill exhaust and you'll be well on the way to the most potent and evocative road or stage rally car England ever produced in the early '60's.

To start rallying go to www.hrcr.co.uk, the UK's leading historic rally club.

PS If you're in any doubt about the asking prices of well built works replicas compared to standard cars, check out both JME and Dennis Welch. Both have used examples for sale.

PPS Plenty of room to store kit behind seats and leaks in heavy rain minimal really.

Edited by crbox on Friday 25th October 08:47

[Russwhitehouse]

First of all apologies for the delay in replying. I am currently at sea and have had no internet access for a few days. Thanks for the invaluable advice, some very valid points made and taken on board. Secondly, WOW! What a great looking car. Would love a more detailed spec of what you have done to her to get her looking so good. Any favourite events you have and why also appreciated.
Regards
Russ

[Yertis]

Had you thought about a TR4 rally car instead? Cost a lot less to buy, very competitive, not claustrophobic and excellent support from people like Revington. Building a works replica not such a major undertaking as a Healey, I should think.

[crbox]

Russwhitehouse said:

First of all apologies for the delay in replying. I am currently at sea and have had no internet access for a few days. Thanks for the invaluable advice, some very valid points made and taken on board. Secondly, WOW! What a great looking car. Would love a more detailed spec of what you have done to her to get her looking so good. Any favourite events you have and why also appreciated.
Regards
Russ

Full story here

http://www.pistonheads.com/gassing/topic.asp?t=108...

One thing worth considering that nobody will tell you is the side screen cars (pre '63) allow you to fit the side exhaust with the bottom edge aligning with the sill. With a wind up window car, you can only remove the portion of the door that clears the window when it's down. Most sill exhaust Healey 's look ****, even BMC's, but I wanted to show it could be done neatly.
Also the side screen cars have a flat chassis, so you can achieve the high front, low back that gives you the best handling... ...and IMO appearance.
My favourite events are thinly disguised road race events, especially anywhere in the Italian Dolomites and also the Costa Brava Historique.

[spitsfire]

What about this one? http://www.dvca.co.uk/private-treaty-sales-view.ph...

Not cheap, but it's got the original engine, good history, and (by the sounds of it) some tasty upgrades too.

Do it.

[Russwhitehouse]

Hmmmmm! Might be well worth a squint.