Climate Change treaty....
Discussion
So, it seems the US finally gave in, but who do theythink they are to say to smaller less economically developed countries 'we aint gonna change until you change'. I have a deep hatred of GWB more than ever. Sadly it seems some idiots still think that global warming isn't real. Some guyso n the BBC site have been arguing with my dad and naother astrophysicist tryign to tell them they know nothing of planterary atmoshperics......
it's a kick in the face of the poorer, developing nations, who may not now get the opportunity to get electricity to remote parts, and have the growth that other, developed countries have had, especially in Africa, etc. It's all very well saying to others to stop, when you already have pretty much all you need. It's not going to happen, and other countries are not going to forego their own development just to satisfy the green brigade.
Nickthebassist said:
So, it seems the US finally gave in, but who do theythink they are to say to smaller less economically developed countries 'we aint gonna change until you change'. I have a deep hatred of GWB more than ever. Sadly it seems some idiots still think that global warming isn't real. Some guyso n the BBC site have been arguing with my dad and naother astrophysicist tryign to tell them they know nothing of planterary atmoshperics......
Smaller less economically developed countries......that would be every country in the world then?
Are you aware that urban air quality in the US has improved a great deal in teh last decade? CO2 emissions haven't and as that's the only gas that causes any pollution ever that's obviously not ok.
Do you honestly think that they have given in? They are just pandering. They have another two years in which to do nothing by which time everyone will have forgotten about it.
Nickthebassist said:
So, it seems the US finally gave in, but who do theythink they are to say to smaller less economically developed countries 'we aint gonna change until you change'. I have a deep hatred of GWB more than ever. Sadly it seems some idiots still think that global warming isn't real. Some guyso n the BBC site have been arguing with my dad and naother astrophysicist tryign to tell them they know nothing of planterary atmoshperics......
It seems I'm one of your 'idiots'; feel free to count yourself as one of mine. Except, of course, it isn't proven to be man made, that is why they now just call it Climate Change. It isn't even certain that it will be 'bad', but change is vague enough to frighten some folk (the idiots, normally). Stupidly, Kyoto cost the world enough money to give clean drinking water to everyone in the 3rd world. That would have really saved some lives.Anyway, I thought US had agreed to agree limits later...
Edit to add a link to this thread linking to a good video that we are unlikely to see broadcast here:
http://www.pistonheads.co.uk/gassing/topic.asp?h=0...
Edited by grumbledoak on Saturday 15th December 19:16
Nickthebassist said:
So, it seems the US finally gave in, but who do theythink they are to say to smaller less economically developed countries 'we aint gonna change until you change'. I have a deep hatred of GWB more than ever. Sadly it seems some idiots still think that global warming isn't real. Some guyso n the BBC site have been arguing with my dad and naother astrophysicist tryign to tell them they know nothing of planterary atmoshperics......
Of course it is.Except it's Climate change, and has been real for the past 4 billion years.
What's causing the warming on Mars then Mr My Dads an Astrophysicist?
Bing o said:
Nickthebassist said:
So, it seems the US finally gave in, but who do theythink they are to say to smaller less economically developed countries 'we aint gonna change until you change'. I have a deep hatred of GWB more than ever. Sadly it seems some idiots still think that global warming isn't real. Some guyso n the BBC site have been arguing with my dad and naother astrophysicist tryign to tell them they know nothing of planterary atmoshperics......
Of course it is.Except it's Climate change, and has been real for the past 4 billion years.
What's causing the warming on Mars then Mr My Dads an Astrophysicist?
Nickthebassist said:
Sadly it seems some idiots still think that global warming isn't real. Some guyso n the BBC site have been arguing with my dad and naother astrophysicist tryign to tell them they know nothing of planterary atmoshperics......
Oh us idiots don't actually care if it's real or not. What we do know is that it has happened several times in the Earth's history prior to the invention of the internal combustion and Easyjet, so we know it is not caused by humans. Now 
off and patronise someone else you gullible tt. 
So given that the modest amount of climate change we've seen since about 1850 is supposedly down to our emissions of carbon dioxide (no evidence for it but don't worry about that as the politicians don't worry either), and given that emissions and levels of this gas are both still rising while the planet's temperature is barely changing, could nickthebassist or somebody else explain how any country signing up to this non-agreement with no binding targets will magically remove this evil carbon dioxide out of the atmosphere and so prevent the ecodisaster we're continually having shoved in our face to scare the tax out of us? If nothing more than signatures can do this we have truly entered a new era of paranormal science. Or, it's all bu11shit.
My grant-free computerless fiscal modelling predicts that signatory first world nations will see workers and businesses having their environment wrecked by higher taxes and more restrictions and controls on individual mobility leading to feverish temperatures as the lefty governments responsible for this fiasco hand over fistfuls of cash to their loyal voters and waste the rest on politically correct projects that help nobody.
Whoopeedoo.
My grant-free computerless fiscal modelling predicts that signatory first world nations will see workers and businesses having their environment wrecked by higher taxes and more restrictions and controls on individual mobility leading to feverish temperatures as the lefty governments responsible for this fiasco hand over fistfuls of cash to their loyal voters and waste the rest on politically correct projects that help nobody.
Whoopeedoo.
I am always amazed at the casualness with which the media deals with the facts.
In the 8 o clock news in Ireland yesterday it was announced that 2007 had just been assessed as 'the hotest on record'.
A quick check reveals that it is in fact, 'the 7th hottest', and out of a very narrow band, compared to the 1960 to 1990 average.
How can journalistic integrity go out of the window in such a way??
In the 8 o clock news in Ireland yesterday it was announced that 2007 had just been assessed as 'the hotest on record'.
A quick check reveals that it is in fact, 'the 7th hottest', and out of a very narrow band, compared to the 1960 to 1990 average.
How can journalistic integrity go out of the window in such a way??
Edited by Gulliver911 on Saturday 15th December 19:36
Gulliver911 said:
I am always amazed at the casualness with which the media deals with teh fact.
In the 8 o clock news in Ireland yesterday it was announced that 2007 had just been assessed as 'the hotest on record'.
A quick check reveals that it is fact, 'the 7th hotest', and out of a very narrow band, compared to the 1960 to 1990 average.
So where is the true data? URL?In the 8 o clock news in Ireland yesterday it was announced that 2007 had just been assessed as 'the hotest on record'.
A quick check reveals that it is fact, 'the 7th hotest', and out of a very narrow band, compared to the 1960 to 1990 average.
Jewhoo said:
Bing o said:
Nickthebassist said:
So, it seems the US finally gave in, but who do theythink they are to say to smaller less economically developed countries 'we aint gonna change until you change'. I have a deep hatred of GWB more than ever. Sadly it seems some idiots still think that global warming isn't real. Some guyso n the BBC site have been arguing with my dad and naother astrophysicist tryign to tell them they know nothing of planterary atmoshperics......
Of course it is.Except it's Climate change, and has been real for the past 4 billion years.
What's causing the warming on Mars then Mr My Dads an Astrophysicist?
Hooli said:
Jewhoo said:
Bing o said:
Nickthebassist said:
So, it seems the US finally gave in, but who do theythink they are to say to smaller less economically developed countries 'we aint gonna change until you change'. I have a deep hatred of GWB more than ever. Sadly it seems some idiots still think that global warming isn't real. Some guyso n the BBC site have been arguing with my dad and naother astrophysicist tryign to tell them they know nothing of planterary atmoshperics......
Of course it is.Except it's Climate change, and has been real for the past 4 billion years.
What's causing the warming on Mars then Mr My Dads an Astrophysicist?
ludo said:
Gulliver911 said:
I am always amazed at the casualness with which the media deals with teh fact.
In the 8 o clock news in Ireland yesterday it was announced that 2007 had just been assessed as 'the hotest on record'.
A quick check reveals that it is fact, 'the 7th hotest', and out of a very narrow band, compared to the 1960 to 1990 average.
So where is the true data? URL?In the 8 o clock news in Ireland yesterday it was announced that 2007 had just been assessed as 'the hotest on record'.
A quick check reveals that it is fact, 'the 7th hotest', and out of a very narrow band, compared to the 1960 to 1990 average.
http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/science/nature/7142694....
What is your take Ludo of this choice of data 'Above 1960-1990 average' ??
On the TV news channel in Ireland, the presenter last night stated that 2007 was the hottest on record.
It is not.
Problems with UK 2007 the 'hottest on record'...
1. the records are barely old enough to start shaving
2. records that do go back sufficiently to distinguish between weather and climate show 1930s as hot as the last ten years
3. records that go back further show solar forcings and the Milankovitch cycles
4. how is the UK warming the same as global warming, we should be given all countries' temperature trends surely
5. the enhanced greenhouse effect is meant to warm the troposphere most and first, but the troposphere hasn't signed up to Kyoto
6. even if 2007 was the warmest UK year on record, and even if that record meant something, and even if the Uk was representative of the globe, where's the causal link between the record year and emissions, given that there is no human signal visible in global climate data
7. do the BBC have oxygen on tap to allow its presenters to breathe while speaking on location so far up the colon of the IPCC
1. the records are barely old enough to start shaving
2. records that do go back sufficiently to distinguish between weather and climate show 1930s as hot as the last ten years
3. records that go back further show solar forcings and the Milankovitch cycles
4. how is the UK warming the same as global warming, we should be given all countries' temperature trends surely
5. the enhanced greenhouse effect is meant to warm the troposphere most and first, but the troposphere hasn't signed up to Kyoto
6. even if 2007 was the warmest UK year on record, and even if that record meant something, and even if the Uk was representative of the globe, where's the causal link between the record year and emissions, given that there is no human signal visible in global climate data
7. do the BBC have oxygen on tap to allow its presenters to breathe while speaking on location so far up the colon of the IPCC
Gulliver911 said:
ludo said:
Gulliver911 said:
I am always amazed at the casualness with which the media deals with teh fact.
In the 8 o clock news in Ireland yesterday it was announced that 2007 had just been assessed as 'the hotest on record'.
A quick check reveals that it is fact, 'the 7th hotest', and out of a very narrow band, compared to the 1960 to 1990 average.
So where is the true data? URL?In the 8 o clock news in Ireland yesterday it was announced that 2007 had just been assessed as 'the hotest on record'.
A quick check reveals that it is fact, 'the 7th hotest', and out of a very narrow band, compared to the 1960 to 1990 average.
http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/science/nature/7142694....
Gulliver911 said:
What is your take Ludo of this choice of data 'Above 1960-1990 average' ??
That is pretty harmless, they are just using the average temperature over this period as an arbitrary baseline for comparison, and then reporting the "anomaly" which is just the difference. I have worked on this sort data before and this is just standard practice. They are using all of the data, not just the years that were above that average, to make the rankings.Gulliver911 said:
On the TV news channel in Ireland, the presenter last night stated that 2007 was the hottest on record.
It is not.
It could be that they have found a report that it was Ireland's warmest year on record rather than globally, it may end up being the U.K.s third warmest year, so that isn't out of the question.It is not.
HadleyCenter said:
Meanwhile, across the UK, 2007 is on course to become one of the warmest years on record. Even if the mean temperature for December is 1 °C below the 1971-2000 long-term average, the year will still be the third warmest since UK-wide records began in 1914. In this 94-year series, the last six years (2002-2007) are set to become the six warmest years.
http://www.metoffice.gov.uk/corporate/pressoffice/2007/pr20071213.html I saw a couple of site suggesting it will be the second warmest year in the USA (but can only find it on blogs rather than e.g. NASA).
Gassing Station | The Pie & Piston Archive | Top of Page | What's New | My Stuff