BBC1 Tonight at 9 - To Kill a Burglar: The Tony Martin Story
Discussion
Jaglover said:
One thing for sure, he dealt with the problem. Barras will never rob him again!
This old woman cut me up the other day. Nice looking old lady she was, protested quite politely as I dragged her from her car. She said it wasn't her fault, she thought it was her right of way. Could've happened to anyone, she said. I didn't listen, though. I just put her head inside the car door and repeatedly slammed it on her until she was dead. Oh, sure, you may say it was unnecessary, but one thing's for sure, I dealt with the problem. She'll never cut me up again!
Come now Ecks, you are now resorting to hysteria. Have you ever heard the expression 'an Englishman's home is his castle'. If someone breaks into your own home you have the moral right to defend yourself, your family and your property, regardless of what the law says.
Actually, in this country you can't do anything "regardless of what the law says", thank god. Otherwise what would be the point in having laws?
And I hardly think that tongue-in-cheek satire is "hysteria".
anonymous said:
[redacted]
Which is why, even if the law is changed, he should still have been arrested and brought to trial. Whether he will be convicted will then depend on the jury and the special circumstances of the case. I would not have convicted him because I can see no useful purpose to sending him to jail.
Ecks Ridgehead said:
One thing for sure, he dealt with the problem. Barras will never rob him again!
This old woman cut me up the other day. Nice looking old lady she was, protested quite politely as I dragged her from her car. She said it wasn't her fault, she thought it was her right of way. Could've happened to anyone, she said. I didn't listen, though. I just put her head inside the car door and repeatedly slammed it on her until she was dead. Oh, sure, you may say it was unnecessary, but one thing's for sure, I dealt with the problem. She'll never cut me up again!
How in your head you came up with that! If said scum bag would have lived do you think he would have ever given anything positive back to the socity we live in or carried on robing people one less scum bag to worry about.
Jaglover said:
Actually, in this country you can't do anything "regardless of what the law says", thank god. Otherwise what would be the point in having laws?
.
If the law and justice diverge, what course should we follow?
They won't. Your opinion of "justice" doesn't matter to a court.
Ecks Ridgehead said:
Actually, in this country you can't do anything "regardless of what the law says", thank god. Otherwise what would be the point in having laws?
.
If the law and justice diverge, what course should we follow?
They won't. Your opinion of "justice" doesn't matter to a court.
So you’re saying that laws (perhaps passed by a government with only 36% of the electorate) will never be different from what is morally right?
How was he to know that they were running away?
For all he knew, they could have been the 'advance party', sent into to gain entry for the rest of the gang waiting outside.... armed to the teeth.
He could have been running outside to get his mates, who would have come in to his 'defence'
For all he knew, they could have been the 'advance party', sent into to gain entry for the rest of the gang waiting outside.... armed to the teeth.
He could have been running outside to get his mates, who would have come in to his 'defence'
IS200RJR said:
One thing for sure, he dealt with the problem. Barras will never rob him again!
This old woman cut me up the other day. Nice looking old lady she was, protested quite politely as I dragged her from her car. She said it wasn't her fault, she thought it was her right of way. Could've happened to anyone, she said. I didn't listen, though. I just put her head inside the car door and repeatedly slammed it on her until she was dead. Oh, sure, you may say it was unnecessary, but one thing's for sure, I dealt with the problem. She'll never cut me up again!
How in your head you came up with that! If said scum bag would have lived do you think he would have ever given anything positive back to the socity we live in or carried on robing people one less scum bag to worry about.
It was deliberately over the top, as satire is supposed to be. As most of you seem depressingly to have missed the point, though, and at the risk of ruining it, I'll explain - painstakingly - what I was trying to say...
I was trying to point out that no private citizen should ever be allowed to take the punishment of a crime into his own hands. This is a matter solely for the courts, no matter what you think is right or wrong. Someone who goes outside of the law to mete out what he considers to be "justice" is absolutely no different to a burglar - both ignore the law and the rights of others to act entirely as they please.
IS200RJR said:
How in your head you came up with that! If said scum bag would have lived do you think he would have ever given anything positive back to the socity we live in or carried on robing people one less scum bag to worry about.
So, if I've read that correctly (and that's tough, you don't like grammar much eh?) then ALL crimes should be punishable with the death penalty, to avoid future pollution of the gene pool / society?
Jaglover said:
So you’re saying that laws (perhaps passed by a government with only 36% of the electorate) will never be different from what is morally right?
Laws aren't just passed by governments, and our current laws didn't appear overnight. They have been developed, modified, and refined over hundreds of years.
Of course, the problem will come when I ask you to define what "morally right" means...
Ecks Ridgehead said:
I was trying to point out that no private citizen should ever be allowed to take the punishment of a crime into his own hands. This is a matter solely for the courts, no matter what you think is right or wrong. Someone who goes outside of the law to mete out what he considers to be "justice" is absolutely no different to a burglar - both ignore the law and the rights of others to act entirely as they please.
If the law is wrong and spineless politicians will not change it then it should be ignored.
There is a HUGE difference as I've said before, I would not go out looking for a potential burglar to hurt, but if he comes into my home to rob me then he abrogates any rights he has when he's outside it.
What would YOU do if faced with a tooled-up burglar in the dead of night?
>> Edited by Yugguy on Friday 17th March 11:32
My wife and I were attacked last week in our house by a bloke with a baseball bat. My daughter saw it all and is totally traumatised. It was the 5th time these people had come to rob the house, even though we kept calling the poilce. The guy apparently does it all over the county and had just been let out after serving 3 months of a 2 year sentence due to good behaviour. I only had a knife and I was worried that if I stabbed hin and killed him I might end up in prison cos it's more dangerous than his baseball bat. If I'd gone to prison who would look after my wife and daughter? The wife and I will hopefully be out of hospital in 2 months and then we can get our daughter back from social services and start again. I'm sure we'll all be OK. Oh..and my neighbours house was done over last night...the police think it's the same bloke who beat us up. Ah well, at least I did not break the law defending myself!!
>> Edited by anonymous-user on Friday 17th March 11:34
>> Edited by anonymous-user on Friday 17th March 11:34
Ecks Ridgehead said:
I was trying to point out that no private citizen should ever be allowed to take the punishment of a crime into his own hands. This is a matter solely for the courts, no matter what you think is right or wrong. Someone who goes outside of the law to mete out what he considers to be "justice" is absolutely no different to a burglar - both ignore the law and the rights of others to act entirely as they please.
I am not saying that private citizens should be allowed to mete out justice as they see fit. I am saying that they should be allowed to DEFEND themselves in their own home without facing legal sanction.
Yugguy said:
If the law is wrong and spineless politicians will not change it then it should be ignored.
Who are you to say that the law is wrong? I don't think it is - so who's right? You know, I didn't have you down for an anarchist.
Yugguy said:
What would YOU do if faced with a tooled-up burglar in the dead of night?
Defend myself until he stopped attacking me. Simple. That's well within the bounds of the law, especially if he was tooled up.
Jaglover said:
I was trying to point out that no private citizen should ever be allowed to take the punishment of a crime into his own hands. This is a matter solely for the courts, no matter what you think is right or wrong. Someone who goes outside of the law to mete out what he considers to be "justice" is absolutely no different to a burglar - both ignore the law and the rights of others to act entirely as they please.
I am not saying that private citizens should be allowed to mete out justice as they see fit. I am saying that they should be allowed to DEFEND themselves in their own home without facing legal sanction.
I know that's what you think - the explanation wasn't really aimed in your direction.
Although, you did say earlier that you approved of defending themselves by any means, which I don't agree with.
garyhun said:
I only had a knife and I was worried that if I stabbed hin and killed him I might end up in prison cos it's more dangerous than his baseball bat.
That's quite some presence of mind from someone who earlier said that he "might just lose it in that moment and shoot the liitel fu**ers!!!"
Gassing Station | The Pie & Piston Archive | Top of Page | What's New | My Stuff