Engineer and proud?
Discussion
bales said:
To counter that, with my first job I have just got today I have a VERY competitive salary compared to all my friends and their management type jobs! So I am not complaining at all with what I get paid as a graduate engineer!!!!!
This is common, to get you into the industry.
Just you wait for your friends salary to rocket ahead!
Marquis_Rex said:
bales said:
To counter that, with my first job I have just got today I have a VERY competitive salary compared to all my friends and their management type jobs! So I am not complaining at all with what I get paid as a graduate engineer!!!!!
This is common, to get you into the industry.
Just you wait for your friends salary to rocket ahead!
It would be fascinating to actually have people post numbers to qualify and quantify all the talk of salaries, progression and payscales.
eg: Malcolm, engineer 6 months, contractor, £xxk.
Unfortunately this is not the kind of info one dishes out on a public forum.
Here are some UK Salaries taken from here for listed advertised jobs (bear in mind the advertised salaries are rarely what they actually pay):
www.encore-solutions.co.uk/vacindx2.htm
Design Engineer (staffordshire): 22K
Senior Engineer (staffordshire):28K
Principal Design Engineer (staffordshire):32K
Mechanical Design Engineer in R and D (Essex)-job description looks like a bit of a CAD monkey- up to 35K
Electrical Engineer (Southern England):25K
Energy Management ENgineer (beds): 21K!
Diesel Development Engineer (Midlands)- job description looks like a big of hardware development and some calibration of the FIE
25-30 K
FWIW I can't complain I'm on higher/similar to what Cymtriks posted for a 'Fellow' in his post on Friday the 13th- the tax in Germany is higher, so that's using the net amount I take home and working back to what I would have to earn in the UK to get that much. Cost of living here is cheaper though, cars, food , rent and there's no council tax if you don't own a property. Sounds good in theory, but when I want to go somewhere else I will have to take a salary cut/change careers, and I would like to return to the UK and have some more freedom some day.
The US is the most appealing to me, however after several grueling interviews with one company prepared to sponsor I think I buggered things up recently!
www.encore-solutions.co.uk/vacindx2.htm
Design Engineer (staffordshire): 22K
Senior Engineer (staffordshire):28K
Principal Design Engineer (staffordshire):32K
Mechanical Design Engineer in R and D (Essex)-job description looks like a bit of a CAD monkey- up to 35K
Electrical Engineer (Southern England):25K
Energy Management ENgineer (beds): 21K!
Diesel Development Engineer (Midlands)- job description looks like a big of hardware development and some calibration of the FIE
25-30 K
FWIW I can't complain I'm on higher/similar to what Cymtriks posted for a 'Fellow' in his post on Friday the 13th- the tax in Germany is higher, so that's using the net amount I take home and working back to what I would have to earn in the UK to get that much. Cost of living here is cheaper though, cars, food , rent and there's no council tax if you don't own a property. Sounds good in theory, but when I want to go somewhere else I will have to take a salary cut/change careers, and I would like to return to the UK and have some more freedom some day.
The US is the most appealing to me, however after several grueling interviews with one company prepared to sponsor I think I buggered things up recently!
Edited by Marquis_Rex on Thursday 26th October 10:10
Marquis_Rex said:
Design Engineer (staffordshire): 22K
Senior Engineer (staffordshire):28K
Principal Design Engineer (staffordshire):32K
These kind of salaries do make for depressing reading - To get to a responsible position such as senior engineer and be only worth 32k makes me wonder why I chose engineering at all....
But those are advertised wages remember. The highest paying positions I wouldnt expect need advertised, they'd be head hunted or word of mouth resourced.
It is depressing reading though, and thought provoking. No experience previously save a couple of internships, start as a contractor, get the same pay as advertised for a senior engineer. Will there be any such thing as staff in the future?
It is depressing reading though, and thought provoking. No experience previously save a couple of internships, start as a contractor, get the same pay as advertised for a senior engineer. Will there be any such thing as staff in the future?
egomeister said:
Marquis_Rex said:
Design Engineer (staffordshire): 22K
Senior Engineer (staffordshire):28K
Principal Design Engineer (staffordshire):32K
These kind of salaries do make for depressing reading - To get to a responsible position such as senior engineer and be only worth 32k makes me wonder why I chose engineering at all....
If those positions are at JCB then the rates will be correct.....I used to work for them, then got headhunted, and given a 50% increase....... :-)
wobert said:
egomeister said:
Marquis_Rex said:
Design Engineer (staffordshire): 22K
Senior Engineer (staffordshire):28K
Principal Design Engineer (staffordshire):32K
These kind of salaries do make for depressing reading - To get to a responsible position such as senior engineer and be only worth 32k makes me wonder why I chose engineering at all....
If those positions are at JCB then the rates will be correct.....I used to work for them, then got headhunted, and given a 50% increase....... :-)
Compare to some I got sent this morning from a recruiting agency (as usual they get back to you once you've got a job
) Embedded SW Engineer - Lanarkshire - £19k - £23k
Embedded SW Engineer - Lanarkshire - £25k - £30k
Software Programme Manager - Lanarkshire - £40k - £50k
£19,000? I'm sorry but are you taking the p
s? Graduate salaries are higher than that even in deepest darkest Lanarkshire.alfaman said:
tallbloke said:
Is the title of this thread 'Engineer and proud' or '*Professional* engineer' and proud??
Is someone who has done a 4 year apprenticeship and onc AND hnc quallies at poly and who has years of experience not an engineer because they don't have 'professional' qualifications? This sort of snobbery is what has caused the under valuation of engineering in this country in general. It's bad enough other professions looking down on engineering without 'professional' engineers sneering at those who chose the craft path to engineering expertise.
The testbed engineers at the works where I machined 5 tonne pump casings and nuclear plant coolant circulating pumps may beg to differ with you about testing not being real enggineering by the way.
Is someone who has done a 4 year apprenticeship and onc AND hnc quallies at poly and who has years of experience not an engineer because they don't have 'professional' qualifications? This sort of snobbery is what has caused the under valuation of engineering in this country in general. It's bad enough other professions looking down on engineering without 'professional' engineers sneering at those who chose the craft path to engineering expertise.
The testbed engineers at the works where I machined 5 tonne pump casings and nuclear plant coolant circulating pumps may beg to differ with you about testing not being real enggineering by the way.
TB - IIRC you can still get fully qualified (Chartered) by starting with an apprenticeship / HNC .... and then do the professioanl exams etc. ( My Dad started as a draughtsman , then went to Uni. later on and then went through all the professional training and exams )... might depend on which field of Engineering though these days .... in Civil Engineering I think the rules may have changed a few years back to mean "degree only" .
One of the reasons that Engineering is under-rated as a profession is because *anyone* who works in the Engineering Industry can call themselves an "Engineer" ... whether qualified or not.
Contrast this with Law , Accountancy , Medicine , Dentistry and Architecture.... and the Engineering professions in the USA ,and the rest of Europe .... where AFAIK only fully-qualified Engineers hold the title "Engineer".... its not "snobbery" IMO.
Professional exams and qual's are (surely ) needed to protect the interest of customers and the general public .... and also act as a "license to practice"....... which is why Bridges , Dams , Structures etc. have to be designed and built(supervised) by fully qualified Engineers .... ( I guess the same applies to other fields of Engineering like aeronautical engineering too .. )
Edited by alfaman on Wednesday 25th October 20:38
To an extent yes. The Chief Technical Authority on a project must be Chartered, that does not apply to the rest of the engineering staff though. On my last project we had at one time about 120 engineers working on the project, maybe 3 of them were Chartered or bothered with professional qualifications and that includes all the team leaders, senior engineers, principal engineers, tech co-ord gurus and Project Managers. This team was the best software team in Europe and we considered ourselves (and had the metrics and standards to back ourselves up) 2nd only to the Skunkworks NASA MIT boys who *are* the de facto best. Our end product backs us up rather well also
Every single member of the team and other members over the last 30yrs have been professional engineers. What made us not just bloody good but f*****g good was nothing whatsoever to do with qualifications or Institutes but the talented individuals available, the demands the job placed on the product and the subsequent standards, processes and proceedures that needed to be developed. When your commercial and political pressures are high enough, it concentrates the mind wonderfully. If that sounds arrogant then good it should do. This thread has got me well and truely annoyed about how even engineers cant defend themselves, wont defend themselves or dont even *know* what makes them an engineer, professional or not. Not to mention the whinging engineer wannabes or grads who seem to think they have a God given right to either moan about the pay or think they should be entitled to having other "lesser" ppl bow down and worship them for wanting to become engineers. I earn what I earn doing my current job, it is neither good nor bad, it is what I am prepared to be paid. If it wasnt I would change my job. Does my pay have anything whatsoever to do with whether or not I am either a good/bad engineer or a Professional one or not? Like f**k it does. I am a good/bad Professional or not engineer based on what I do and have done, not on what anybody else tells me. Any half decent engineer should be able to take a look at their work and *know* what they are. You know if you are an engineer, Professional or not.
Personally Im bloody proud of what I spent the last 8yrs of my life working on. Im even prouder when 100,000 ppl watch it get stood on her tailpipes from take off and keep the vertical...
DJC said:
What made us not just bloody good but f*****g good was nothing whatsoever to do with qualifications or Institutes but the talented individuals available, the demands the job placed on the product and the subsequent standards, processes and proceedures that needed to be developed. When your commercial and political pressures are high enough, it concentrates the mind wonderfully.
If that sounds arrogant then good it should do. This thread has got me well and truely annoyed about how even engineers cant defend themselves, wont defend themselves or dont even *know* what makes them an engineer, professional or not. Not to mention the whinging engineer wannabes or grads who seem to think they have a God given right to either moan about the pay or think they should be entitled to having other "lesser" ppl bow down and worship them for wanting to become engineers. I earn what I earn doing my current job, it is neither good nor bad, it is what I am prepared to be paid. If it wasnt I would change my job. Does my pay have anything whatsoever to do with whether or not I am either a good/bad engineer or a Professional one or not? Like f**k it does. I am a good/bad Professional or not engineer based on what I do and have done, not on what anybody else tells me. Any half decent engineer should be able to take a look at their work and *know* what they are. You know if you are an engineer, Professional or not.
Personally Im bloody proud of what I spent the last 8yrs of my life working on. Im even prouder when 100,000 ppl watch it get stood on her tailpipes from take off and keep the vertical...
If that sounds arrogant then good it should do. This thread has got me well and truely annoyed about how even engineers cant defend themselves, wont defend themselves or dont even *know* what makes them an engineer, professional or not. Not to mention the whinging engineer wannabes or grads who seem to think they have a God given right to either moan about the pay or think they should be entitled to having other "lesser" ppl bow down and worship them for wanting to become engineers. I earn what I earn doing my current job, it is neither good nor bad, it is what I am prepared to be paid. If it wasnt I would change my job. Does my pay have anything whatsoever to do with whether or not I am either a good/bad engineer or a Professional one or not? Like f**k it does. I am a good/bad Professional or not engineer based on what I do and have done, not on what anybody else tells me. Any half decent engineer should be able to take a look at their work and *know* what they are. You know if you are an engineer, Professional or not.
Personally Im bloody proud of what I spent the last 8yrs of my life working on. Im even prouder when 100,000 ppl watch it get stood on her tailpipes from take off and keep the vertical...
Well said DJC.
Marquis_Rex said:
Design Engineer (staffordshire): 22K
Senior Engineer (staffordshire):28K
Principal Design Engineer (staffordshire):32K
Electrical Engineer (Southern England):25K
Energy Management ENgineer (beds): 21K!
Edited by Marquis_Rex on Thursday 26th October 10:10
To me those salaries looking a bit mean - I am 7 years out of uni and I get paid a big wodge more than those quoted salaries.
My employer is noted for trying to pay well in an attempt (somewhat vain) to try and retain staff. (no London weighting though)
At the end of the day, I used to work in the supply base and paid next to nothing so I got off my arse and did something about it and changed jobs.
Your salary and job satisfaction is dictated by one factor - yourself.
(But when I saw the third quarter results, I have started to read the engineering mags from the back pages first so I might have to follow my own advice - gulp)
DieselJohn said:
ferrisbueller said:
DieselJohn said:
littlegreenfairy said:
I wouldn't ever be proud to say I'm a Materials Engineer after coming across some of the most insensitive bastards in the training of the profession.
Surely rather than insensitive you mean inert?
Erm, anyway...
I am now an Aeronautical Engineer, officially the snobbiest branch of engineering.
Contract at RR?
Staff!
Where are you working (in R-R) you can now look forward to staying here for the next 35 years... there is no escape
I'm an engineer and proud of it.
Although I think I'm being less of an engineer and more of a suit these days as doing less hands on work.
Im an electrical engineer, have my own company and am doing pretty reasonably. I am a member of a professional body (IET) and have my degree in electronics. I did my apprenticeship at the same time as studying.
There is such a demand out there for work it is unbeliveable. Its just a matter of finding it. As for the guy who said his dad earned £45k well he either works for a company; or doesn't do very much.
Although I think I'm being less of an engineer and more of a suit these days as doing less hands on work.
Im an electrical engineer, have my own company and am doing pretty reasonably. I am a member of a professional body (IET) and have my degree in electronics. I did my apprenticeship at the same time as studying.
There is such a demand out there for work it is unbeliveable. Its just a matter of finding it. As for the guy who said his dad earned £45k well he either works for a company; or doesn't do very much.
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